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Is this a travel in the NBA ?
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:02 pm
by Mr. Savage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhA0zCJV6mc
I am not too well educated about the NBA rule book, but Kobe after he pump fakes Manu switches his pivot foot which would be a travel under FIBA rules.
Is this allowed in the NBA ?
Not that it has any importance, but I was just wondering.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:04 pm
by ss-wiish!
What one of the comments say
not a travel - he keeps his pivot foot for the turn twords the hoop and then he jumps off both feet before taking anouther step. read the rule book before you comment, Kobe is sick and your just a dissapointed spurs fan.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:13 pm
by Mr. Savage
Yes, but to me it looks like he switches his pivot foot before he jumps off.
When he does the step back before the pump fake, he lands with his left foot (the one with the knee brace) and thereby makes it his pivot foot then fakes Ginobili but then switches his pivot again to the right one to go past Ginobili and hit the shot.
Also, on his pump fake he does a little jump that could also be called as travel.
But I am not sure if that is also the case in the NBA.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:15 pm
by Number34
yes it is, but its wasn't an obvious one. it doesn't surprise me that this one was let go as there has been many other travels that i consider to be worse.
Rules
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:28 pm
by writerman
Number34 wrote:yes it is, but its wasn't an obvious one. it doesn't surprise me that this one was let go as there has been many other travels that i consider to be worse.
The NBA has basically tossed out the rules regarding steps and palming the ball. If the rules were enforced with any degree of accuracy, there would be dozens of NBA players--including most of the "stars"--who simply wouldn't be able to play the game.
That the basic rules of the game can be blithely ignored is bad enough--don't get me started on the blatant and obvious "star" calls the big names in the league regularly get (Shaq never gets called for blatant charging, Iverson never for obvious palming for just a couple of examples)
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:07 pm
by Frosty
I hate watching a guy catch a pass outside the 3 pt line and proceed to reposition himself by moving both feet. (it happens alot) It seems like the refs don't call it if a defender isn't up on him.
Just call the game like the rules state.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:23 pm
by prophet_of_rage
Frosty wrote:I hate watching a guy catch a pass outside the 3 pt line and proceed to reposition himself by moving both feet. (it happens alot) It seems like the refs don't call it if a defender isn't up on him.
Just call the game like the rules state.
Yeah, that two foot sweep they do is unbelievable. The first foot comes down as they catch the ball then they take another stride, pivot on that foot to square up and then somehow haven't established a pivot foot at the end. I don't understand that.
But Kobe's move isn't really a travel. He came down in a staggered jumpstop after the behind the back so really neither foot is the pivot foot. Then as he stepped through with the left and pushed off into the jumper he released the ball before his right foot came down. It's actually just brilliant footwork.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:27 pm
by PPAW4Life
The first foot coming down doesn't make it your pivot foot.
You have to establish control of the ball first on the ground then you decided which foot is your pivot foot by either taking a jab step or turning on either feet.
There is a reason why officials give players latitude on the catch of the ball - they want to see them establish control first.
In the video Kobe's pivot foot is the right foot.
It's not a travel.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:42 pm
by prophet_of_rage
Unfortunately the definition of what is in control of the ball is very liberally applied now. The referees don't usually call control until both hands have secured the ball and the player squares up. It's just once the ball is secure.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:57 pm
by faze
It was a blatant travel. Very easy to see and plainly in the ref's view. He fakes a step back jumper set on his left foot and later steps forward with it. I'm not surprised it wasn't called though, the refs just don't seem to care anymore.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 3:34 pm
by Heat3
yes it is travelling. but they never call it much less for a star. players are always shuffling their feet.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 3:34 pm
by ponder276
When he picks up his dribble he has both feet planted, then he takes one step and jumps with both feet, so it's really not a travel, just great footwork. There is a slight repositioning just as/after he picks up the ball, but they never call that.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 3:57 pm
by dustinzb
PPAW4Life wrote:The first foot coming down doesn't make it your pivot foot.
You have to establish control of the ball first on the ground then you decided which foot is your pivot foot by either taking a jab step or turning on either feet.
There is a reason why officials give players latitude on the catch of the ball - they want to see them establish control first.
In the video Kobe's pivot foot is the right foot.
It's not a travel.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:06 pm
by pl
his firs step (before dribbling) is also a blatant travel (at least in FIBA rules). He pivots with his right, and than takes the first step with the left
:)
But they only call this on european guys in the NBA.
Kevin Garnett changes the pivot foot 50% of the time before his post up fade away jumper.
Pivots away with one foot and pivots arond it with the other before releasing his jumper.
There are traveling rules in the NBA also, but they have never been consistent with calling it. (Not in the past 15years at least, since i've been watching.)
As for the question of the thread, yes, of course he travelled before the shot also. Of course your steady foot is the one, that landed first, and the other can be moved to pivot around.
The only time, when you can choose your pivot foot is when you landed on two feet (each feet landed at the same time).
European traveling rules are clearly explained, while NBA rules are not, but if you understand the FIBA rules, and read carefully the NBA rules, you find out that those are the same rules, only that the NBA rules are defined way less clearly.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:13 pm
by pl
dustinzb wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
we can quote that as many times as we want, it is still wrong. if you take a "two beat stop" (not landing your feet at one rithm), than the foot that landed first has to stay steady, and can not be lifted while you have the ballin your hands, with the exeption of jumping off two feet.
The other foot is the one that you can take pivot steps with.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:19 pm
by OrlandoMagic
I cant tell if this is a travel or not?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Z1wAwQtM
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:33 pm
by bballmaniac27
well if he landed with both feet at the same time when doing the hop step then it wouldn't be considered a travel. But it seems to me that he landed on his left first and switched to his right.... but it's very hard to tell. You can't expect the refs to call those because it's almost impossible to tell at game speed.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:34 pm
by GreenWithEnvy
its a travel but his footwork is so quick it would be impossible for the refs to pick that up, especially after what they did or didn't call that entire series.
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:34 pm
by magicfan4life05
Posted: Mon Jun 2, 2008 4:46 pm
by Icefire10304
Obvious travel. I'm surprised they didn't call it
