RealGM

Don't create a list of players, I am just curious on how you define if a player is a top 10 player all time or not.

What do you measure it by?


For instance,

How many titles do you need?

How many MVP's?

How many Finals MVP's?

How many all nba first team and defense teams?

Where you rank in EFF/PER?

Etc


Without mentioning any players names, how would you define based on that if a player is top 10 or no?


Thoughts!!!!

There's no set # of any stats you need, but the accomplishments and accolades can only help you....

Um, well, for starters they have to have a first name Michael and a last name Jordan.

Prefacing it with saying don't mention names is counterproductive. In order to define what it takes to be top 10 you have to examine the current top 10 and make an assertion of what a player would have to do to dethrone one of them. Roughly I would say head on a trajectory such as Kobe Bryant's for one or two more years (assuming at least 2 finals appearances and a title).
Long Career
Sustained, high peak
Playoff success
At least one area of the game you can dominate.

TyCobb wrote:Um, well, for starters they have to have a first name Michael and a last name Jordan.

Man, I wasn't aware Jordan was playing in the 60s as a 6'9 black man AND a 7' black man, as well as a 6'9 white guy with a jumpshot.

Top 10. Not just the first one, i'm pretty sure the name isn't a requisite for any part of it.

How much they impacted the game.

Playing for one of the major media markets.

In no order.....

Wilt - LA
Jordan - Chi
Kobe - LA
Jabaar - LA
Russell - Bos
Shaq - LA
West - LA
Bird - Bos
Johnson - LA
Robertson Mil


All except Oscar played in 1 of 3 cities LA, Chicago, Boston. I know there are others like Malone that might deserve to be there, but that is a matter of opinon

Long mostly injury free career: 10+ years
At least 1 MVP award
Considered the best in the NBA at one point
Broken records
Multiple championships:2+
Amazing stats
Elevate in the playoffs

Jack wore plaid wrote:Playing for one of the major media markets.

In no order.....

Wilt - LA
Jordan - Chi
Kobe - LA
Jabaar - LA
Russell - Bos
Shaq - LA
West - LA
Bird - Bos
Johnson - LA
Robertson Mil


All except Oscar played in 1 of 3 cities LA, Chicago, Boston. I know there are others like Malone that might deserve to be there, but that is a matter of opinon

well wilt was more of philly and san fran than LA. he spent most of his years in other places, than LA. he was well past his prime when he got to LA. he had lost most of his atleticism, and he wasn't the player he was early in his career at that point.

and oscar spent almost all of his carreer in Cincinnati.

To me, becoming a TOP 10 GOAT means that during the peak of your career, the majority of players will generally put you as the greatest player in the league. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this. Ask any player out there and they will put Kobe at the top of the list. Do this for a few seasons, combined with a couple of Finals appearances (championship wins can only boost your value) and you're definitely breaking into top 10 GOAT status.

Be amazing.

Simply to have a named that will be remembered for your greatness or profound impact on the game.

Magic/Bird will be remebered.

Of course Jordan/Shaq.

Kobe's should already and he's still got about a half of his prime left or something [idk how old he is right now so sue me]

KG's might as being one of the first breakthrough players from Highschool if he wins two rings.

Just something that makes your impact on the game profound and memorable

There's only one tangible criterion: there can't be ten or more guys who were better than him.

Rooster wrote:There's only one tangible criterion: there can't be ten or more guys who were better than him.

Rooster wrote:There's only one tangible criterion: there can't be ten or more guys who were better than him.

You beat me to it. I was gonna say have no more than 9 guys better than you.

That'll teach me to show up on page 2.

I'm sorry, but I think the notion "criteria" for being in the Top 10 AT is absurd.

Players have different careers. They have different roles, different numbers of accolades, etc. That's how basketball is. Of course some will be greater than others, but to draw a line where a magic number of championships, or rings, or MVPS, or DPYs doesn't tell us anything about who, in particular, was greater than someone else. How about a guy that won 5 titles, versus a guy that won 6/7 but with 2 less regular season MVPs? Maybe a bad example, but there's an endless number of permutations you can do. Some guys that may very well be top ten are gonna fall short in certain areas. And in others, they'll meet or exceed the established criteria.

To me, it's the same as the argument people make about what someone "has to do" to be the GOAT. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Has to win 6 like Jordan", "Has to win at least 5 MVPs or more", etc. Well then, (assuming Jordan's our GOAT), why didn't he lead the league in scoring and assists, like Wilt? Win 11 titles, like Russell? Every player's career is different.

Bottom line, I think you just have to take the players you want to compare, and make a judgment call. Take into account the numbers, extenuating circumstances, and decide who's top ten (or GOAT). I don't think it can get THAT much more technical, without being unfair.

JordansBulls wrote:Don't create a list of players, I am just curious on how you define if a player is a top 10 player all time or not.

What do you measure it by?


For instance,

How many titles do you need?

How many MVP's?

How many Finals MVP's?

How many all nba first team and defense teams?

Where you rank in EFF/PER?

Etc


Without mentioning any players names, how would you define based on that if a player is top 10 or no?


Thoughts!!!!

I really don't think about it like that. I just evaluate player by player.

I will say that everybody in my top 10:

1) Led a team to a title.

2) Had a year where I think they were the best player in the world.

3) Had solid longevity.

I'll answer the question that has to be on a lot of people's minds right now: No, Kobe isn't in my top 10 yet, and he won't be even if the Lakers win the title, but he's getting very close

Jack wore plaid wrote:Playing for one of the major media markets.

In no order.....

Wilt - LA
Jordan - Chi
Kobe - LA
Jabaar - LA
Russell - Bos
Shaq - LA
West - LA
Bird - Bos
Johnson - LA
Robertson Mil

I would probably correlate this in a different direction, keeping in mind when the salary cap was put in place. In the past, big basketball markets = major money = best players.

Top 10 of all time- you have to look at their entire body of work. A lot of people put Jordan at GOAT because of his impact on the game of basketball overall. He was a great player, but his impact on the game was about more than his skill. His global impact and marketability basically revived the game. Now, he won 6 titles, but Russell won 11, so does that make Russell the GOAT? Jordan probably averaged a little over 30 ppg in his best year, but Wilt averaged 50 one year. Does that make Wilt the GOAT? The big O averaged a trip doub for a whole year. Is he the best all around player ever? There is no clear, concise answer to what makes someone top 10 of all time, because it is largely opinion based. Now, Hollinger at ESPN can probably concoct some asenine math formula, but that's just numbers. The overall body of work of a player determines his greatness, and there could probably be a # 1, #1a, #1b, etc. Factors should include # of titles (that you played a major role in obtaining, otherwise, cheap shot Rob would be near the top of the list), impact on the league (dominance/skills), numbers (points, blocks, rebounds, or whatever field you excelled in), how people played the game against you, etc. But those aren't the only factors. I guess it is left up to the person making the list! Younger people will put the flashy players higher up than the Russells and Oscars, and older people tend to put Wilt and Russell near the top. It depends on what you think makes a player great!

Willis Reed is not considered a Top 10 player, and he has 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs AND one of the most legendary games ever (Game 7, 1970 Finals). Havlicek has 8 rings, is a super scorer and defender and is not considered Top 10. Cousy was the best guard of the game for a decade, won 6 rings and MVP and is not considered Top 10. On the other hand, ppl see Moses Malone as a low Top 10 GOAT.

Why? Honestly, it does not feel that wrong, but I cannot pinpoint why...