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Per Wiretap: Lakers better when Kobe doesn't shoot a lot
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:22 am
by Patterns
Christopher Reina/RealGM -
An article today on how the Celtics defend Kobe Bryant by ESPN's Henry Abbot triggered me to take a look at exactly how well the Lakers do when Kobe is a high volume shooter.
During their two regular season meetings, Boston dared Kobe to be a perimeter shooter and did not allow him to penetrate into the lane.
The Spurs defended Kobe in a similar fashion during the Western Conference Finalsand kept him off the free throw line, but he played brilliant all-around basketball and shot an extremely efficient percentage from the floor.
Kobe averaged 20.6 field goal attempts during the regular season, so I looked into the Lakers' record when he shot 20 or more times versus nights when he shot 19 times or fewer.
Regular Season Results
20 Or More Field Goal Attempts: 26-18, .591
19 Or Less Field Goal Attempts: 31-7, .816
Playoff Results
20 Or More Field Goal Attempts: 6-3, .667
19 Or Less Field Goal Attempts: 6-0, 1.000
The Lakers were 38% more likely to win during the regular season when Kobe was not a high-volume shooter and their offense was more balanced, which is a staggering differential.
I think this article is a little misleading.
It doesn't take into account that Kobe usually shoots more when his teammates aren't getting it done. If his teammates are hitting all their shots, of course he doesn't have to shoot more than 20. Also, being 6-3 isn't bad at all and I'll take that any day.
Misleading article.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:25 am
by dockingsched
what a simplistic way to look at things
who were they playing? how often did kobe shoot at the same rate but simply sit out in 4th qtr because they were playing a crappy team?
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:26 am
by SOUL
So theoretically if Kobe didn't shoot ever you'd be undefeated
Re: Per Wiretap: Lakers better when Kobe doesn't shoot a lot
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 12:26 am
by shawngoat23
Patterns wrote:Christopher Reina/RealGM -
An article today on how the Celtics defend Kobe Bryant by ESPN's Henry Abbot triggered me to take a look at exactly how well the Lakers do when Kobe is a high volume shooter.
During their two regular season meetings, Boston dared Kobe to be a perimeter shooter and did not allow him to penetrate into the lane.
The Spurs defended Kobe in a similar fashion during the Western Conference Finalsand kept him off the free throw line, but he played brilliant all-around basketball and shot an extremely efficient percentage from the floor.
Kobe averaged 20.6 field goal attempts during the regular season, so I looked into the Lakers' record when he shot 20 or more times versus nights when he shot 19 times or fewer.
Regular Season Results
20 Or More Field Goal Attempts: 26-18, .591
19 Or Less Field Goal Attempts: 31-7, .816
Playoff Results
20 Or More Field Goal Attempts: 6-3, .667
19 Or Less Field Goal Attempts: 6-0, 1.000
The Lakers were 38% more likely to win during the regular season when Kobe was not a high-volume shooter and their offense was more balanced, which is a staggering differential.
I think this article is a little misleading.
It doesn't take into account that Kobe usually shoots more when his teammates aren't getting it done. If his teammates are hitting all their shots, of course he doesn't have to shoot more than 20. Also, being 6-3 isn't bad at all and I'll take that any day.
Misleading article.
I think Kobe's overrated, but I hate this type of analysis. When the Lakers are blowing out the opponent, Kobe will be resting and would be less likely to have to carry the offensive burden. I'm pretty sure you can conduct this analysis on most stars, and find similar results.
It's like the stat the way that the football team which has more rushing attempts almost always wins the game, but only because the team that's winning has more of an incentive to run the ball.
Edit: that said, I'm sure Laker fans would have been less quick to point out the flaw in this analysis if the player involved wasn't Kobe.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:04 am
by BRINGTHEPAIN
Most of Kobe's highest scoring games this season have come after big 1st halfs (and big first quarters often). So obviously it has nothing to do with whether his teammates are 'getting it done or not'. Kobe shoots his teammates out of the game rather than getting them involved. Regardless, obviously Kobe shooting a lot is never the answer, whether his teammates can get it done or not, the Kobe chucking solution leads to loses.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:06 am
by Kobay
It doesn't matter what he does. Lakers win when they play defense.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:07 am
by Buckeye-NBAFan
The Lakers play better when they get a 20 point lead by the end of the first quarter and Kobe doesn't feel the need to shoot the rest of the game.
Re: Per Wiretap: Lakers better when Kobe doesn't shoot a lot
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:50 am
by INKtastic
Patterns wrote:I think this article is a little misleading.
It doesn't take into account that Kobe usually shoots more when his teammates aren't getting it done. If his teammates are hitting all their shots, of course he doesn't have to shoot more than 20. Also, being 6-3 isn't bad at all and I'll take that any day.
Misleading article.
I completely agree.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:24 am
by Pancho_Pantera
I think it just points out that the Lakers are better off when Kobe plays within the system, not when he decides to take matters into his own hands.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:27 am
by NO-KG-AI
I think it's the opposite. I think when the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. It's not as if he decides to shoot X amount of shots before each game. If they are all getting it done, he doesn't have to shoot so much, and he can focus on other things... and when they are all scoring, they are a great team.
Simple.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:37 am
by BRINGTHEPAIN
When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:43 am
by garcia3
BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.
ok then, Kobe is the worst player in the league... happy??
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:45 am
by maxwellcu
This is a pretty creative analysis. It fails to take into account other factors, like the performance of his teammates, or what teams the Lakers were playing on that given day. The sample size is still pretty small, and, regardless -- 6-3 in the playoffs is still good enough to get it done.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:53 am
by BRINGTHEPAIN
garcia3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
ok then, Kobe is the worst player in the league... happy??
You should use logic rather than emotion for your arguments.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:58 am
by NO-KG-AI
BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.
Kobe Bryant says: I'm in the finals, so MVPMARCUSJORDAN can suck it.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:04 am
by T-Spot
BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:When the Lakers are playing well, Kobe doesn't have to shoot. But when they are not playing well Kobe shoots a lot and it leads to loses. Why not try a different solution when the Lakers aren't playing well? Its been proven that Kobe isn't the solution.
So, what do you propose? They juggle midgits? They let Sasha chuck? The ask Gasol to shoot threes?
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:11 am
by BRINGTHEPAIN
The solution is called Triangle Offense. Like any other offense its not supposed to work for every quarter of every game of every season. If it doesn't work in the 1st quarter you persist until it does work. Well done again on your logic.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:12 am
by dockingsched
the answer is simple, kobe needs to score without shooting. THAT is true talent.
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:18 am
by T-Spot
BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:The solution is called Triangle Offense. Like any other offense its not supposed to work for every quarter of every game of every season. If it doesn't work in the 1st quarter you persist until it does work. Well done again on your logic.
So you beat a dead horse and hope it works?
Posted: Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:34 am
by BRINGTHEPAIN
Are you saying Triangle Offense doesn't work? In order for Kobe to score 45-50 it means he would have abandoned the offense early in the game. He didn't give Triangle Offense a chance to work in those big scoring games.