Prime Kobe and MJ on the same team, would they win a title?

[Original Baller]

Personally the Kobe vs. MJ threads have been beaten to death and have gotten really boring. I thought I'd change it up with a topic I've seen less discussed since joining this forum. How good do ya'll think a team with Kobe and MJ in their primes (25-32) would do?

The role players can just be average players at each position like:

PG - Alston or Fisher
SG - Kobe/MJ
SF - MJ/Kobe
PF - Collison or Oberto
C - Haywood or Dampier

And the bench can also be rather average. So basically the only all-star quality players on the team would be Kobe and MJ. I would say both would spilt time between SG and SF since both are great on the perimeter and post.

Other than their chance at winning a title, if you were coach how would you play them?

Would you play MJ off the ball alot and have Kobe handle and set the offense? or vice-versa?

I personally believe they could get it done by themselves simply because they would be similar to the 90's Bulls except instead that Kobe is 10x the player Pippen was. Only problem I foresee however is in terms of personality clashes. Both are alpha males who want the team under their control and I don't know if they could handle sharing power. We all saw what happened between Kobe and Shaq. Plus Mike himself said he didn't know how Kobe dealt with Shaq all those years cause he couldn't have subverted his game for another dominant offensive player.

[JordansBulls]

If they have a PF/C that can get 9+ rpg then yes that team IMO could be a dynasty. It would really be no different from the Bulls teams in the 90's. They would just need someone to rebound because you aren't going to win if you guards average more rebounds than your PF and Center.

[Kobay]

Both players are capable of sharing the spot light but i doubt they can maintain it consistently. Perhaps older Jordan and older kobe would be far superior teammates than their younger selves .

[Frosty]

I doubt this would work out.

The reason Jordan/Pippen were so effective is that Pippen was never a true Alpha male.

Also Pippen was the floor general on defense and a much better defender then Kobe. I can't see Kobe guarding Magic like Pippen did.

Pippen also had a strong post game and could defend the post well.

Kobe's game is pretty much modelled after Jordan's so there aren't a lot of synergies.

Plus, Kobe and MJ wouldn't make it through 3 practices without someone killing the other.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Wouldn't work. Kobe isn't a good enough defender or passer to replace Pippen. Kobe is a good defender by todays NBA standards and a solid passer for his position. Pippen was probably the greatest perimeter defender ever and the best passing SF I ever seen besides Larry Bird. He also could handle the ball and run the offense. Not many guys could do that.

[Dr Aki]

but would kobe's superior offense outweigh pippen's superior defense?

i think yes

[HarlemHeat37]

egos..lack of depth..

[TheKingOfVa360]

but would kobe's superior offense outweigh pippen's superior defense?

i think yes

No it won't. Pippen is a very efficient offensive player. His defense and pass is far superior to Bryant's. Who needs a good efficient scorer when you have you have the most efficient scorer of all-time in Jordan. Pippen's role can't be filled by Kobe. It would take a player with Tyshaun Prince's length, Ron Artest's defense, Lebron's passing/speed/and free throw shooting, and the slashing ability and first step of Carmelo Anthony. And I'm sorry that's not Kobe.

[dsorc]

If you did this in a video game, sure you'd have a dynasty. In real life you'd have chaos. You have two guys who are too used to being top dog fighting for shots and who play to similar. The chemistry on that team would be horrible as each would be trying to outshine the other in terms of getting the spotlight. If you think the Shaq v Kobe debacle was bad, Jordan v Kobe would be worse.

[5DOM]

1. Jordan
2. Bryant

Do you really need other reasons?

[Dr Aki]

-= original quote snipped =-




No it won't. Pippen is a very efficient offensive player. His defense and pass is far superior to Bryant's. Who needs a good efficient scorer when you have you have the most efficient scorer of all-time in Jordan. Pippen's role can't be filled by Kobe. It would take a player with Tyshaun Prince's length, Ron Artest's defense, Lebron's passing/speed/and free throw shooting, and the slashing ability and first step of Carmelo Anthony. And I'm sorry that's not Kobe.

you're talking about having two of the best swingmen at both offense and defense that both command doubles and both can lockdown opposition guards

you're talking about PJ, winningest coach in NBA history and was able to coerce a dynasty out of kobe and shaq

within the context of the triangle, you just cannot control both, both are smart enough to do the right play, both are intense enough to want to win all the time especially if you're talking about sharing kobe the 2008 version

you honestly dont think MJ and kobe could form a dynasty?

[Rerisen]

It depends on what Kobe really thinks of Mike and whether MJ could do much more sharing of the glory than he did with Pip.

If its true that one reason Kobe and Shaq didn't work was because Kobe didn't believe Shaq was fully committed, well their would be no such problem with MJ like that.

I think a first title would be easy. Later titles as well if they had both previously won elsewhere. But if they started winning them at the same time, then it might get dicey after 2 or 3 as one might want their own team (probably Kobe) to try and challenge MJ with his own team.

Age would make a big difference too. If Kobe came in at 20 or so and MJ was in his prime around 27 then you would have a natural transition and hand-off of a dynasty type team.

[Original Baller]

If you did this in a video game, sure you'd have a dynasty. In real life you'd have chaos. You have two guys who are too used to being top dog fighting for shots and who play to similar. The chemistry on that team would be horrible as each would be trying to outshine the other in terms of getting the spotlight. If you think the Shaq v Kobe debacle was bad, Jordan v Kobe would be worse.

That would be my biggest worry as well. Both egos are huge but unlike you I'm not worried about the chemistry of the team of them winning in a season but rather the sideshow that goes along with it. Kobe and Shaq actually played the best together when they were beefing constantly (remember '01) because they were both pushing each other to raise their games at that time to prove to one another that they were more important to the team.

It was actually after the beef calmed a bit in 02 and 03 that the team actually started falling apart to a degree. I always thought that on the court Kobe and Shaq played best when they hated each other the most. And contrary to popular belief Kobe gave Shaq the most open looks of any other Laker.

I think something similar would happen if Kobe and Mike ever played together. They would hate each other and constantly try to prove who was better but when it came down to the game I think they would work so well together because of their competitive spirits. The only issue would be that they might tear the locker room in half by making people pick sides.

I mean there are famous stories outta LA that Shaq wouldn't allow Gary Vitti (the Lakers head trainer) to tape his ankles because he felt he was a "Kobe guy" while we all know the beef between Phil and Kobe because Phil was a "Shaq guy".

Simple stuff like that may be a determinant but I doubt their ability to mesh on the court would be an issue. Both Kobe and Mike are extremely intelligent players and would make the right plays.

[shawngoat23]

Depends. It'd be a perennial contender in today's league. It'd be a dynasty in the Spurs sense.

It would not win a championship in the 80s, or even come close. And it would take at most one in the 90s.

[Mumbles]

I think a first title would be easy. Later titles as well if they had both previously won elsewhere. But if they started winning them at the same time, then it might get dicey after 2 or 3 as one might want their own team (probably Kobe) to try and challenge MJ with his own team.

Age would make a big difference too. If Kobe came in at 20 or so and MJ was in his prime around 27 then you would have a natural transition and hand-off of a dynasty type team.

You hit the nail of the head. Prime Kobe still hasn't won a title, so his ego would be in check to get that first ring. i.e deferring to #23. After this both will realize that they can get another title with role players without the extra stress and it's over.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Pippen was a more natural sidekick to Jordan but both Jordan and Kobe are so good that I think they would have a very good chance of winning some titles playing together with average teammates. I think the teammates would have to be matched well with them (i.e., more on the tough defender/perimeter shooter side than a soft big man like Eddy Curry) but I se no reason why they couldn't win a title together if they commit to winning.

I would love to see what Jordan would do to the league now that handchecking is illegal and guards can penetrate more or less at will.

[Dr Aki]

who's the idiot who voted lottery bound?

[Chubby Chaser]

Won't work. Jordan could never share the ball with teammates. Kobe and Jordan switch places and it was Jordan and Shaq. They would of never won a title, because unlike Kobe. Jordan can't give up the ball to allow shaq to have 20+ fg attempts. Jordan could never play with someone that needed the ball as much as him. Kobe did it, and won three rings, and is now working on his 4th.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ Jordan doesn't share the ball with his teammates..I wonder how he won SIX titles..

Kobe has 2 titles as a #2 option, and 1 * as a #2 option..

even funnier when you consider 2004..Kobe sure passed the ball a lot to Shaq in that series..

[JordansBulls]

Won't work. Jordan could never share the ball with teammates. Kobe and Jordan switch places and it was Jordan and Shaq. They would of never won a title, because unlike Kobe. Jordan can't give up the ball to allow shaq to have 20+ fg attempts. Jordan could never play with someone that needed the ball as much as him. Kobe did it, and won three rings, and is now working on his 4th.

That's why Jordan averages more assists than Kobe.