NBA Centers: who is and who isn't?

[Malinhion]

There is a lot of confusion when discussing centers regarding who is and who isn't. Here are the facts. I know playing style can make us think a guy is one or the other, but team mintues played at a spot just don't lie. Feel free to bookmark this for your reference. I intend on doing so myself.

% of team minutes played at Center
ATL - Al Horford (55%)
BOS - Kendrick Perkins (48%)
CHA - Emeka Okafor (62%)
CHI - Joakim Noah (28%) or Ben Wallace (41%)*
CLE - Zydrunas Ilgauskas (55%)
DAL - Erick Dampier (44%)
DET - Marcus Camby (69%)
GSW - Andris Biedrins (52%)
HOU - Yao Ming (51%)
IND - Jermaine O'Neal (30%) or Jeff Foster (34%)*
LAC - Chris Kaman (52%)
LAL - Pau Gasol (23%) or Andrew Bynum (25%)*
MEM - Pau Gasol (36%) or Darko Milicic (28%)*
MIA - Shaquille O'Neal (23%) or Mark Blount (26%) or Earl Barron (21%)*
MIL - Andrew Bogut (68%)
MIN - Al Jefferson (69%)
NJN - By committee**
NOH - Tyson Chandler (66%)
NYK - Eddy Curry (38%) or Zach Randolph (34%)
ORL - Dwight Howard (78%)
PHI - Samuel Dalembert (68%)
PHO - Amare Stoudemire (52%) or Shaquille O'Neal (20%)
POR - Joel Przybilla (45%) or Greg Oden (0%)
SAC - Brad Miller (61%)
SAS - Tim Duncan (62%)
SEA - Johan Petro (33%)***
TOR - Chris Bosh (42%) or Rasho Nesterovic (37%)
UTH - Mehmet Okur (60%)
WAS - Brendan Haywood (55%)

So all the people saying that Jefferson is not a center are dead wrong. He played more of his team's minutes at the 5 than any other big in the NBA (except Dwight Howard). Now, this is probably a product of Minny's frontcourt holes, but it doesn't change facts. It seems Bargnani has pushed Bosh to C for the majority of his minutes, where I'm sure he would be more effective with quick scoring, but would explain his rebounding struggles this season. Amare is also a center, though not next to Shaq. Who would be a center next to Shaq? Speaking of which, who will Miami stick there in the wake of the diesel's departure? The Nets frontcourt situation is completely stupid. Lawrence Frank is an idiot, and the numbers only look worse because of midseason trades. They had no real C and they need to play Sean Williams now. Will Noah be taking the majority of minutes at the 5 for the Bulls next season?

* - numbers distorted due to trade or injury

** - Krstic, Magloire, Diop, and Collins all play less than 20% of minutes at C. Boone was the only one to hit 20% but he played 24% of team minutes at PF. So you decide.

*** - there is also Nick Collison at 28%, but he gets 27% of team minutes at PF, so its really split.

[dockingsched]

everyone knows that jefferson played center, the argument is whether he should. most minny fans say he shouldn't be because he's not a true center and can't defend the position.

i didn't realize bosh played so much center.

[CBS7]

Barring trade for a C, Noah will likely play the majority of the Bulls' minutes at C next season, and will put up 10-11 ppg and 8-9 rpg.

[theTHIEF]

so Dwight Howard is definitely center...

[tsherkin]

You might want to cross-compare percentage of minutes with games played, some of those won't reflect their full percentage because of time spent on the IR>

[pillwenney]

Yeah I think the Jefferson situation is an example of why this may not be the best way to tell. If a team just has a gaping hole at center, well somebody has to play there. That doesn't mean they should be playing there or are most effective there.

[Malinhion]

It doesn't matter if they *should* be playing there. They *are* playing there.

It's like playing AI at the point. You can argue up and down whether he's a PG, SG, or combo guard. But all that matters is the minutes he actually logs.

[tsherkin]

I agree with Malinhion; whether they should or should not is irrelevant because they are, and that means they are playing AS centers, so we are rating their efficacy.

Again though, cross-referencing percentage of games played against percentage of minutes played might be valuable because there's obviously a direct correlation.

[Pai Gow]

So can we stop saying Duncan isn't a center?

[Malinhion]

I think Duncan may have played more PF in the past, but SA recognizes that the league is going another direction and they don't need to just stick a rebounder next to the big guy. Maybe they are trying to fill that spot with a combo forward or a more athletic guy and let Duncan anchor the post.

Again though, cross-referencing percentage of games played against percentage of minutes played might be valuable because there's obviously a direct correlation.

True, but I'm lazy and don't have the time to do this right now. This illustrates my point sufficiently enough that I can see whats happening. Its easy to see what's going on if you keep up with the NBA. That's why I included a few starters on some teams.

Besides, this would only make things clearer for teams who don't have a real 5 anyhow, like the Nets. I think it might show some interesting info for the Suns, however. Like the fact that Shaq played a greater % of his minutes in games played with Amare at center.

[The Main Event]

the fact that Bosh plays that percentage at C is a joke. The guy is a pure PF. This became more and more apparent during our first round in the playoffs.

[microfib4thewin]

I don't get why people obsess about which traditional positions fit a certain player. Things have never been that clear cut with the abundance of swingman, and with a more open style of play many centers have to play like a power forward in order to survive in the league.

[Don Draper]

The funny thing is that Tim Duncan has always played center, but the media and casual fans refuse to believe this. But I want to know in this data what constitues a center?

[KyleCleric]

Taking center minutes and actually having that as their true position are not the same thing.

[DirtybirdGA]

That's cuz Tim is the 'greatest PF ever"

[360]

Players play out of position to fill their teams' needs. I think what defines a player's position is his style of play; that is, what the player is good at doing and what he prefers to do; not what his coach has forced him into doing. Pau Gasol and Duncan are power forwards. I don't care how many minutes they log at center. When you get players playing out of their natural position, you're just begging for trouble.

[Malinhion]

Okay, but in "today's NBA" where a lot of things are geared towards faster, more athletic players, guys will consistently play out of position. If Bosh plays like a face-up beanpole but still logs 65% of his team's minutes at C over the next ten years, he is a center. There's no debate.

[dockingsched]

It doesn't matter if they *should* be playing there. They *are* playing there.

It's like playing AI at the point. You can argue up and down whether he's a PG, SG, or combo guard. But all that matters is the minutes he actually logs.

So all the people saying that Jefferson is not a center are dead wrong. He played more of his team's minutes at the 5 than any other big in the NBA (except Dwight Howard).

eh, i think you're kinda missing the discussing people are having about al jefferson. you seem to be trying to prove that he was a center last yr with the whole "you are the position you play" argument. thats obvious, its not up for debate. i agree with you and most will that al jefferson was indeed a center last season. the argument, however, is whether he should continue playing center in the future. thats what people are debating when talking about jefferson.

[elbowthrower]

DET - Marcus Camby (69%)

The trade went through? Sweet! Hope we got Billups in exchange.

[Malinhion]

It doesn't matter if they *should* be playing there. They *are* playing there.

It's like playing AI at the point. You can argue up and down whether he's a PG, SG, or combo guard. But all that matters is the minutes he actually logs.

So all the people saying that Jefferson is not a center are dead wrong. He played more of his team's minutes at the 5 than any other big in the NBA (except Dwight Howard).

eh, i think you're kinda missing the discussing people are having about al jefferson. you seem to be trying to prove that he was a center last yr with the whole "you are the position you play" argument. thats obvious, its not up for debate. i agree with you and most will that al jefferson was indeed a center last season. the argument, however, is whether he should continue playing center in the future. thats what people are debating when talking about jefferson.

I think he would be better suited at PF with a strong defensive C next to him. They would be best drafting a player like Brook Lopez. But this doesn't mean that he isn't fully capable of playing the 5 if that player doesn't come along. He's got the size and physicality. He bangs for rebounds. He scores on the interior. He's just not the defender you'd expect.

I think that is a big part of the hangup. You're not a "center" unless you can defend an NBA big man. But the truth is lots of PFs and Cs can't, end even the best can't shut down the best. So what is with this arbitrary distinction? Maybe some centers in today's NBA just aren't the defensive anchors they once were in the 90s. Amare would be a perfect example of this. Sure, he looks like a PF, plays like a PF, but maybe in today's NBA that's more of what you're getting from a center. In the 7SoL era, that was their center.

This is how the game progresses and the role of certain positions change. They are not still fitting into the 90s rubric of play style merely because you refuse to call them a center when they're playing 60% of the team's minutes at the 5.