Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 60,467
And1: 5,349
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#1 » by JordansBulls » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:18 am

Source: DimeMag


Who are those players that perpetually find themselves catching more significant L’s than W’s? For the next couple weeks we’ll be calling them out one at a time:

VINCE CARTER

Numbers: 31 years old, 10 NBA seasons, 23.8 points per game, 5.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists.

Highest high: Gold medal in the 2000 Olympics. Vince was Team USA’s leading scorer at 14.8 points per, and of course he did this.

Lowest low: In ‘02-03, injuries limited Vince to just 43 games with the Raptors, and the team went 24-58. Carter’s 20.6 scoring average was the lowest of his career since his rookie year.

History of losing
Everything was going fine for Vince Carter until May 20, 2001, when his Raptors faced Game 7 in the 2001 Eastern Conference Semifinals. As fate would have it, graduation ceremonies at UNC were scheduled the same morning as the do-or-die game in Philly. In a controversial move, Vince decided to take a private jet to graduation, then fly back before the game. Despite putting up 20 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals that night (plus missing a potential game-winner) in a one-point loss, Vince never lived down the questions that he wasn’t totally committed to winning. Soon after, once knee and other leg injuries started to become a factor, Vince started getting accused of playing soft — settling for jump shots when he could drive the lane to create easier baskets and/or get to the free throw line. He’s also accused often of faking or milking injuries; he’s been seen laughing and joking with opponents in the middle of games where his team is losing; he sometimes openly sulks on the court when things aren’t going his way; and if you watch VC in pre-game warmups, he doesn’t look like a guy who’s focused on the task at hand. Finally, and most damaging, Vince admitted during a national TV interview that he didn’t play his hardest all the time. Although it’s since been argued that his words were taken out of context, the perception of him hasn’t changed.

Will he ever be a winner?
Vince can give you 20-25 points a night, he’s hit numerous game-winning or game-tying shots in the final seconds, and he hits his free throws. He’s not not a clutch player, and he’s going to be the most talented player on most teams he plays for, but he won’t ever reach the pinnacle if he’s the alpha dog or “leader” of a team. At this point, the best scenario for Vince would be playing a role similar to the one Rip Hamilton plays in Detroit. He can be his team’s top scorer, but he’ll have to be bolstered by a veteran-laden group around him that plays solid defense, and there’s a strong-willed coach and lead guard who will take charge on the court and in the locker room. If all VC has to do is get buckets (within the system) and play somewhat-adequate defense, he can win a championship as an impact player.



Sort of a harsh article for someone like Vince Carter.

But I'd still take him on my team.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
User avatar
noxe
Starter
Posts: 2,294
And1: 10
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Toronto

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#2 » by noxe » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:48 am

The assessment hits home, got to agree with everything there
Image
Yes folks, above sig/tweet is real!
When asked about the state of his groin injury, Primoz Brezec had the following observation: "The groin is a gangster."
tosi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,985
And1: 504
Joined: Apr 10, 2004
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#3 » by tosi » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:25 am

Vince stands up for his mom to get a parking spot, but not his cousin to get his contract...

VC and Tmac.. what could have been...

But now they are both struggling with injuries trying to do it all themselves..
fart wrote:I agree. get over it people. MJ is ridicoulsly overrated that people have developed this perception that no one can challenge him for GOAT.
User avatar
Reks
Veteran
Posts: 2,507
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#4 » by Reks » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:20 am

^^ Wow a Raptor fan agreeing with someone bashing (for lack of a better word) Vince. Get over it.
User avatar
Serpo
Veteran
Posts: 2,964
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#5 » by Serpo » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:41 am

And the 2nd one on the list is Gilbert Arenas .

http://dimemag.com/2008/07/the-loser-li ... #more-2825

There are far bigger losers in the NBA then these two but oh well. I guess they're going up the list. Marbury should be the highest on a list like that when you consider his contract to his actual success he's ever had .
ljp24
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,489
And1: 22
Joined: Nov 12, 2007

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#6 » by ljp24 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:06 pm

Vince isn't clutch? WTF?
User avatar
leevii
Rookie
Posts: 1,176
And1: 1
Joined: Jan 14, 2005

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#7 » by leevii » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:24 pm

ljp24 wrote:Vince isn't clutch? WTF?


Reading comprehension ftl !
AnSweR07 wrote:I'll go Roy, slightly ahead of Wade.
The Notic
Banned User
Posts: 8,001
And1: 8
Joined: Jun 10, 2006
Location: it's a bird. it's a plane. NO! it's Lois Lane givin me brain.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#8 » by The Notic » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:44 pm

LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?
tsherkin
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 92,237
And1: 31,827
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
 

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#9 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:47 pm

He said Vince "is not not" clutch, which is a really awkward double-negative meaning that he respects that VInce can hit shots in the clutch (something he explicitly noted earlier in the passage).

It's pretty much a dead-on assessment of Vince; great talent, but he can be moody and unpredictable and he almost never gives 100%. And in Toronto, at least after the 00-01 season, he was especially soft and constantly injured. He's been quite healthy and productive in New Jersey but he's still not playing any differently than he did from 01-02 through 03-04 (04-05 in Toronto was a wash, he wasn't getting minutes, wasn't getting plays and was sulking under Sam Mitchell).

He's a level below guys like Kobe, Lebron and Wade, that's for sure (these days, anyway; in his hey-day in his second and third seasons... and even in that first 50-some game stretch with the Nets...).

Don't know if it is hugely fair to call him a loser, though; Vince has played on some relatively successful Nets teams that really didn't have the pieces to contend with the teams to whom they lost and in Toronto, the Raptors were relying on hopes, dreams and some duct tape to get them anywhere. Vince wasn't going to win anything with AD, JYD (as awesome as he was), Alvin Williams (again, respect) and those guys as his running mates, he never had a legit second star player next to him in order to facilitate serious contention.

So calling him a loser is definitely a bit of a stretch.
RapZilla
Starter
Posts: 2,149
And1: 1,130
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Location: Ottawa

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#10 » by RapZilla » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:12 pm

The Cool Kids wrote:^^ Wow a Raptor fan agreeing with someone bashing (for lack of a better word) Vince. Get over it.


I think its a fair assessment, maybe the word loser was harsh (as tsherkin mentioned). You need to get over you're Raptor hate.
Image
Credit to Turbo_Zone
User avatar
celticfan42487
RealGM
Posts: 27,526
And1: 15,365
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Billerica, MA
       

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#11 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:50 pm

I agree Vince is a loser. But he was good enough to beat a "superior" 47 win Raptor team lead by Bosh. So where does that leave Bosh on this list?

These lists are stupid. If you are a superstar and you have some clutch moments then you shouldn't catch flak. Vince Carter has, Dirk has, Areneas has. Both have chocked too, but both have come through in the clutch. These guys in their careers have done what it takes to deserve teh applause. Areneas has a much shorter resume but there has been semblence of clutch and unclutch play as well as very good overall superstar numbers during the regular season.
Image
hoop_head
RealGM
Posts: 10,955
And1: 2,235
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
   

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#12 » by hoop_head » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:01 pm

Accurate assessment of VC.
Mr Smoke Weed
Sophomore
Posts: 188
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2008

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#13 » by Mr Smoke Weed » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:09 pm

on point with VC im not so sure about gil just yet though
User avatar
Nolan
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 18,911
And1: 6,612
Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Location: Edmonton AB
   

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#14 » by Nolan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:40 pm

thats a really good assessment of Vince, well done Dime Magazine.
User avatar
Troubadour
RealGM
Posts: 14,360
And1: 8,355
Joined: Jun 18, 2007
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#15 » by Troubadour » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:12 pm

The Notic wrote:LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?


Who would you rather? Garbajosa or Olesky Pecherov?
Malinhion
Banned User
Posts: 10,071
And1: 3
Joined: Oct 03, 2006
Location: Holding a Players-Only Meeting

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#16 » by Malinhion » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:25 pm

Did they recycle this from five years ago? Honestly...every anecdote they used is from 2000-2003. It sounds like talking to a Raps fan about Vince. Just the same, tired, rehashed, cliche bullschisse.
User avatar
Baller 24
RealGM
Posts: 16,637
And1: 19
Joined: Feb 11, 2006

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#17 » by Baller 24 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:31 pm

McGrady is next, I can feel it :D
dockingsched wrote: the biggest loss of the off-season for the lakers was earl clark
User avatar
RapsGM
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,123
And1: 4
Joined: May 25, 2008
Location: Air Canada Centre

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#18 » by RapsGM » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:52 pm

I agree, Vince you are a loser. But I definitely agree with him being a rip hamilton type player.
Apollo64
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 726
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Location: Greece

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#19 » by Apollo64 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:33 pm

agentzerotoTO wrote:
The Notic wrote:LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?


Who would you rather? Garbajosa or Olesky Pecherov?


Garbajosa was too old to be drafted in 2006.
User avatar
sarah42
Starter
Posts: 2,094
And1: 2
Joined: Jul 10, 2007
Location: In bed with Jake Ryan. woot woot!

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince 

Post#20 » by sarah42 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:54 pm

Malinhion wrote:Did they recycle this from five years ago? Honestly...every anecdote they used is from 2000-2003. It sounds like talking to a Raps fan about Vince. Just the same, tired, rehashed, cliche bullschisse.

what have you been watching? he's still the same whiny player. he may play more games now but he's still not anyway close to a leader - even through example he doesn't cut it. jason kidd just about admitted it by asking for a trade they way he did. are all those raptors fans somehow stupid to turn on probably the most talented raptor ever? no one is denying his talent. its his lack focus dedication and conditioning that ppl are tired of. all the talent in the world doesn't matter if you don't have great worth ethic and love for the game. and he's played with talent before too and every year in the east. i mean get to the conference finals once Vince! I think in 2001 he missed about the last month of the season with a knee injury as per usual and somehow the rest of his team full of average players went on a 10 game win streak and made the the playoffs against all odds and where a few missed plays away from the second round without him. and before that streak - they were on a really bad losing streak with him
Image
inmate347 wrote:
BTW, I still maintain that the 1984 Denver Broncos are Lebron's father

Return to The General Board