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Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:18 am
by JordansBulls
Source: DimeMag


Who are those players that perpetually find themselves catching more significant L’s than W’s? For the next couple weeks we’ll be calling them out one at a time:

VINCE CARTER

Numbers: 31 years old, 10 NBA seasons, 23.8 points per game, 5.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists.

Highest high: Gold medal in the 2000 Olympics. Vince was Team USA’s leading scorer at 14.8 points per, and of course he did this.

Lowest low: In ‘02-03, injuries limited Vince to just 43 games with the Raptors, and the team went 24-58. Carter’s 20.6 scoring average was the lowest of his career since his rookie year.

History of losing
Everything was going fine for Vince Carter until May 20, 2001, when his Raptors faced Game 7 in the 2001 Eastern Conference Semifinals. As fate would have it, graduation ceremonies at UNC were scheduled the same morning as the do-or-die game in Philly. In a controversial move, Vince decided to take a private jet to graduation, then fly back before the game. Despite putting up 20 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals that night (plus missing a potential game-winner) in a one-point loss, Vince never lived down the questions that he wasn’t totally committed to winning. Soon after, once knee and other leg injuries started to become a factor, Vince started getting accused of playing soft — settling for jump shots when he could drive the lane to create easier baskets and/or get to the free throw line. He’s also accused often of faking or milking injuries; he’s been seen laughing and joking with opponents in the middle of games where his team is losing; he sometimes openly sulks on the court when things aren’t going his way; and if you watch VC in pre-game warmups, he doesn’t look like a guy who’s focused on the task at hand. Finally, and most damaging, Vince admitted during a national TV interview that he didn’t play his hardest all the time. Although it’s since been argued that his words were taken out of context, the perception of him hasn’t changed.

Will he ever be a winner?
Vince can give you 20-25 points a night, he’s hit numerous game-winning or game-tying shots in the final seconds, and he hits his free throws. He’s not not a clutch player, and he’s going to be the most talented player on most teams he plays for, but he won’t ever reach the pinnacle if he’s the alpha dog or “leader” of a team. At this point, the best scenario for Vince would be playing a role similar to the one Rip Hamilton plays in Detroit. He can be his team’s top scorer, but he’ll have to be bolstered by a veteran-laden group around him that plays solid defense, and there’s a strong-willed coach and lead guard who will take charge on the court and in the locker room. If all VC has to do is get buckets (within the system) and play somewhat-adequate defense, he can win a championship as an impact player.



Sort of a harsh article for someone like Vince Carter.

But I'd still take him on my team.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:48 am
by noxe
The assessment hits home, got to agree with everything there

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:25 am
by tosi
Vince stands up for his mom to get a parking spot, but not his cousin to get his contract...

VC and Tmac.. what could have been...

But now they are both struggling with injuries trying to do it all themselves..

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:20 am
by Reks
^^ Wow a Raptor fan agreeing with someone bashing (for lack of a better word) Vince. Get over it.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:41 am
by Serpo
And the 2nd one on the list is Gilbert Arenas .

http://dimemag.com/2008/07/the-loser-li ... #more-2825

There are far bigger losers in the NBA then these two but oh well. I guess they're going up the list. Marbury should be the highest on a list like that when you consider his contract to his actual success he's ever had .

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:06 pm
by ljp24
Vince isn't clutch? WTF?

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:24 pm
by leevii
ljp24 wrote:Vince isn't clutch? WTF?


Reading comprehension ftl !

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:44 pm
by The Notic
LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:47 pm
by tsherkin
He said Vince "is not not" clutch, which is a really awkward double-negative meaning that he respects that VInce can hit shots in the clutch (something he explicitly noted earlier in the passage).

It's pretty much a dead-on assessment of Vince; great talent, but he can be moody and unpredictable and he almost never gives 100%. And in Toronto, at least after the 00-01 season, he was especially soft and constantly injured. He's been quite healthy and productive in New Jersey but he's still not playing any differently than he did from 01-02 through 03-04 (04-05 in Toronto was a wash, he wasn't getting minutes, wasn't getting plays and was sulking under Sam Mitchell).

He's a level below guys like Kobe, Lebron and Wade, that's for sure (these days, anyway; in his hey-day in his second and third seasons... and even in that first 50-some game stretch with the Nets...).

Don't know if it is hugely fair to call him a loser, though; Vince has played on some relatively successful Nets teams that really didn't have the pieces to contend with the teams to whom they lost and in Toronto, the Raptors were relying on hopes, dreams and some duct tape to get them anywhere. Vince wasn't going to win anything with AD, JYD (as awesome as he was), Alvin Williams (again, respect) and those guys as his running mates, he never had a legit second star player next to him in order to facilitate serious contention.

So calling him a loser is definitely a bit of a stretch.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:12 pm
by RapZilla
The Cool Kids wrote:^^ Wow a Raptor fan agreeing with someone bashing (for lack of a better word) Vince. Get over it.


I think its a fair assessment, maybe the word loser was harsh (as tsherkin mentioned). You need to get over you're Raptor hate.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:50 pm
by celticfan42487
I agree Vince is a loser. But he was good enough to beat a "superior" 47 win Raptor team lead by Bosh. So where does that leave Bosh on this list?

These lists are stupid. If you are a superstar and you have some clutch moments then you shouldn't catch flak. Vince Carter has, Dirk has, Areneas has. Both have chocked too, but both have come through in the clutch. These guys in their careers have done what it takes to deserve teh applause. Areneas has a much shorter resume but there has been semblence of clutch and unclutch play as well as very good overall superstar numbers during the regular season.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:01 pm
by hoop_head
Accurate assessment of VC.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:09 pm
by Mr Smoke Weed
on point with VC im not so sure about gil just yet though

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:40 pm
by Nolan
thats a really good assessment of Vince, well done Dime Magazine.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:12 pm
by Troubadour
The Notic wrote:LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?


Who would you rather? Garbajosa or Olesky Pecherov?

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:25 pm
by Malinhion
Did they recycle this from five years ago? Honestly...every anecdote they used is from 2000-2003. It sounds like talking to a Raps fan about Vince. Just the same, tired, rehashed, cliche bullschisse.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:31 pm
by Baller 24
McGrady is next, I can feel it :D

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:52 pm
by RapsGM
I agree, Vince you are a loser. But I definitely agree with him being a rip hamilton type player.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:33 pm
by Apollo64
agentzerotoTO wrote:
The Notic wrote:LOL. The same Dime Magazine that mentioned Jorge Garbajosa as a notable for a pick outside of the lottery in their 2006 draft redo?


Who would you rather? Garbajosa or Olesky Pecherov?


Garbajosa was too old to be drafted in 2006.

Re: Dime Magazine calls out Superstars: 1st on the list is Vince

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:54 pm
by sarah42
Malinhion wrote:Did they recycle this from five years ago? Honestly...every anecdote they used is from 2000-2003. It sounds like talking to a Raps fan about Vince. Just the same, tired, rehashed, cliche bullschisse.

what have you been watching? he's still the same whiny player. he may play more games now but he's still not anyway close to a leader - even through example he doesn't cut it. jason kidd just about admitted it by asking for a trade they way he did. are all those raptors fans somehow stupid to turn on probably the most talented raptor ever? no one is denying his talent. its his lack focus dedication and conditioning that ppl are tired of. all the talent in the world doesn't matter if you don't have great worth ethic and love for the game. and he's played with talent before too and every year in the east. i mean get to the conference finals once Vince! I think in 2001 he missed about the last month of the season with a knee injury as per usual and somehow the rest of his team full of average players went on a 10 game win streak and made the the playoffs against all odds and where a few missed plays away from the second round without him. and before that streak - they were on a really bad losing streak with him