David Lee

Moderators: Prez, Yuri Vaultin, ken6199, Dirk, Domejandro, bwgood77, zimpy27, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus, PockyCandy

NYKnick87
Banned User
Posts: 7,086
And1: 1
Joined: Mar 23, 2003

Re: David Lee 

Post#21 » by NYKnick87 » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:06 pm

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX wrote:
MrCheerios wrote:They should trade him along with Curry to Memphis for their lotto pick + Darko. Trading him to OKC would be better. Getting quality FA's in 2010 is the goal, and extending Lee while Curry's contract is still on the books does not help. Lee's also a PF, which won't work if the knicks are able to get Bosh or Amare.



Huh didnt Amare play C for the suns and isnt Lee playing center now for the Knicks? Lee and Amare would work great. Amare you run plays for and Lee is the hussler and clean up guy. Dantoni doesnt need defense.


D'Antoni knows the importance of defense. He's been in the game too long to not realize this. People get the impression that his system will never work because it doesn't emphasize defense and what not - however, people also forget that his best players in Phoenix were also the worst defensive players, i.e. Nash and Amare. The point is that it's not inconceivable that defense can actually be played in this system because it definitely can if you have the right players. Watching the way the Knicks are playing now really shows how good of a coach D'Antoni is. He's able to maximize the strengths of his players and get the most out of his PG. He's also shown that he's not gonna take any crap from his players by benching Curry and Marbury.
NetsForce
Banned User
Posts: 20,711
And1: 24
Joined: Dec 27, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#22 » by NetsForce » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:07 pm

^ I don't know how you can say pace adjusted stats don't mean anything when it comes to Lee. ^

You're right that he is good enough to contribute to any team in the league, but the fact remains that his stats are inflated and his rebounding hasn't been all that amazing this year.

I mean looking at his rebound rate he ranks 41st in the league among big men... And going back to those per-48 pace-adjusted rebounding numbers again Lee only ranks 9th among all starting eastern conference centers, meaning that among the entire league he probably ranks in at around 14-15 meaning he's average...
GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX
Banned User
Posts: 1,764
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#23 » by GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:16 pm

Lee would be a great fit on the Nets.. Too bad your hate would never allow this to happen.. ust have fun with Boone ok.

go look at the past two weeks at his numbers and let me know if thats average stats

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/395 ... IJynUyPaB4
MrCheerios
Veteran
Posts: 2,925
And1: 818
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Location: New York

Re: David Lee 

Post#24 » by MrCheerios » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:22 pm

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX wrote:
Huh didnt Amare play C for the suns and isnt Lee playing center now for the Knicks? Lee and Amare would work great. Amare you run plays for and Lee is the hussler and clean up guy. Dantoni doesnt need defense.

Amare at C didn't work for the suns defensively. Lee at C isn't' working for the knicks defensively either. Playing them together would be a nightmare. D'antoni had better realize this by 2010. The suns worked best defensively when they had Kurt Thomas at C. Lee and Amare are great players but they can't stop anyone.
GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX
Banned User
Posts: 1,764
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#25 » by GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:28 pm

well the NBA is changing. I dont think you necessarily need a strong defensive big man to get deep in the playoffs. Lee will play at whatever position we need him to play. There not many playersw that would stop KG or Duncan anyways. Might as well ust let them play in Dantonis system and ask questions later. ust the thought of having Lee and Amre in the frontcourt is a wet dream for Ny'ers. We could live with weak D.
Volcano
RealGM
Posts: 16,004
And1: 7,765
Joined: Jan 17, 2005

Re: David Lee 

Post#26 » by Volcano » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:37 pm

the guy would make a good scrub on any team
Mr Awesome
Junior
Posts: 456
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 09, 2008

Re: David Lee 

Post#27 » by Mr Awesome » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:39 pm

All of the teams that have won championships in the last several years have had strong defensive bigs. Actually, probably every team that won did.

At any rate, Lee deserves between 8-10 million a year. Anything more is a little much, but he's great for D'Antoini's system so, even if they went slightly higher, it might still be worth it.
Im pretty freakin awesome........
Cracked Fingers
Senior
Posts: 720
And1: 3
Joined: Jan 12, 2005

Re: David Lee 

Post#28 » by Cracked Fingers » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:51 pm

Typically when your bigs on the fast tempo teams put up big numbers it is because their teammates shoot a lot but at a awful percentage. So there are plenty of rebounds and put back points. Difference is New York actually scores at a pretty efficient clip so I think he deserves the props.
GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX
Banned User
Posts: 1,764
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#29 » by GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX » Sun Dec 7, 2008 9:55 pm

Ny needs to think about playoffs first and worry about winning a ring after a playoff series win. We dont have to start preparing a championship squad right now. Just have a team that competes and has an upside. You fill in the missing pieces later on. In Walsh we trust
User avatar
adjacent2bench
RealGM
Posts: 28,804
And1: 3,998
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Location: Adjacent to the Knick Bench
     

Re: David Lee 

Post#30 » by adjacent2bench » Sun Dec 7, 2008 10:26 pm

Volcano wrote:the guy would make a good scrub on any team



I'm sorry but a 2nd year player averaging a double double (2006-07 season) is no scrub.


He may have no legit offensive game, and yes he does suck on D in fact he is horrible, but Lee is no scrub.
Phil Jackson is in charge of ALL basketball decisions-Jim Dolan
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 54,876
And1: 8,920
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: David Lee 

Post#31 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 7, 2008 10:57 pm

Lee's numbers are inflated by pace, minutes, and the fact they surround him with a bunch of small forwards and no other big men. His raw numbers look good in the box score, but if you analyze them in depth, they're much less impressive.

For example, Lee ranks 10th in the league in rebounds per game, but if you look at rebounding rate (a much more accurate representation of rebounding prowess), he ranks 31st.

Lee's PER, which factors minutes and pace, is only 17.1. That ranks him as a slightly above-average player. Given that he is a below average defender, it's hard to say that he's really anything but an average player.
GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX
Banned User
Posts: 1,764
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#32 » by GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:38 pm

nate33 wrote:Lee's PER, which factors minutes and pace, is only 17.1.


David Wests Per is only 18.9. I suppose West is slightly above average as well. Clearly Landry's of 19.77 makes him a much superior player then West

KG obviously doesnt deserve his contract since hes only slightly better at 20.86.
Blame Rasho
On Leave
Posts: 38,757
And1: 6,130
Joined: Apr 25, 2002

Re: David Lee 

Post#33 » by Blame Rasho » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:41 pm

He is a poor mans Dwight Howard...lol
User avatar
UrbanLegendMD
General Manager
Posts: 8,717
And1: 11
Joined: Jul 30, 2004
Location: Pilsen

Re: David Lee 

Post#34 » by UrbanLegendMD » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:46 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:He is a poor mans Dwight Howard...lol


Or to be less politically correct, white Dwight Howard.
First the federal government borrowed money; then gave the money to Bank of America; then I borrowed some of that money from Bank of America and gave it to the federal government; then the federal government gave the money back to Bank of America.
supergallinari
Banned User
Posts: 2,217
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 05, 2008

Re: David Lee 

Post#35 » by supergallinari » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:51 pm

NurbekIL wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:He is a poor mans Dwight Howard...lol


Or to be less politically correct, white Dwight Howard.


come on man use the appropriate spelling

DaWhite Howard
GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX
Banned User
Posts: 1,764
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 25, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#36 » by GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:52 pm

Also if numbers are inflated due to playing in Dantonis system then shouldnt we take back Nash's two MVP's since he only got those numbers by playing with Dantoni and they were heavily inflated. Obviously if we adjusted his stat line those 2 years to compensate for pace Nash wouldnt have even been in the discussion.

I personally wouldnt say Dantoni inflates players numbers. I think he just gets the most out of his players talents on offense. If production declines while playing for another coach then Id say that coach is deflating that players numbers.

Dantoni gets the most potential out from his players on offense.
NYKnick87
Banned User
Posts: 7,086
And1: 1
Joined: Mar 23, 2003

Re: David Lee 

Post#37 » by NYKnick87 » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:54 pm

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX wrote:
nate33 wrote:Lee's PER, which factors minutes and pace, is only 17.1.


David Wests Per is only 18.9. I suppose West is slightly above average as well. Clearly Landry's of 19.77 makes him a much superior player then West

KG obviously doesnt deserve his contract since hes only slightly better at 20.86.


Don't you just love it when posters use stats as the end all and be all?
supergallinari
Banned User
Posts: 2,217
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 05, 2008

Re: David Lee 

Post#38 » by supergallinari » Sun Dec 7, 2008 11:55 pm

david lee is an okay player
he's not an allstar
/thread
NetsForce
Banned User
Posts: 20,711
And1: 24
Joined: Dec 27, 2006

Re: David Lee 

Post#39 » by NetsForce » Mon Dec 8, 2008 12:11 am

Stats aren't an end-all-be-all, but they do help to shed light on which players are overrated and which players are underrated.

The fact also remains, no one in this thread has been able to make a good argument in favor of what makes David Lee so good...

So I'll ask again, what's so special about David Lee?

He doesn't play any defense, is assisted on 76% of his shots, and isn't the rebounding God some people would like you to believe him to be...

He's a useful role player in the mold of a Udonis Haslem, but that's really all that can be said of him at this point in time...
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 54,876
And1: 8,920
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: David Lee 

Post#40 » by nate33 » Mon Dec 8, 2008 12:22 am

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX wrote:
nate33 wrote:Lee's PER, which factors minutes and pace, is only 17.1.


David Wests Per is only 18.9. I suppose West is slightly above average as well. Clearly Landry's of 19.77 makes him a much superior player then West

KG obviously doesnt deserve his contract since hes only slightly better at 20.86.

Sigh. If you want to set up a straw man argument, at least make it original.

Nobody said PER was the only measure of value. My point was that PER and Rebound Rate compensate for minutes and pace. The fact that his PER and Rebound Rate are significantly lower than what one would expect from his raw numbers indicates how much pace influences his stats.

It always amazes me that whenever somebody tries to use statistics to back up his argument, he gets accused of using stats as the "end all and be all". Would you be happier if I just said that David Lee is an average player without any evidence? Okay. I'll do that:

David Lee is an average player. I challenge you to prove I'm wrong without using stats. Because, you know, stats are meaningless.

Return to The General Board