LeBron, Kobe, and Wade - better swingmen Jordan ever faced?

[Rocky5000]

How quickly people forget about Jordan.
Let's remember that Michael Jordan was still one of the best scorers when he left the league in 2003 at age 40!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TkvX356 ... re=related <-43 points.

[HarlemHeat37]

honestly, I don't really see any difference, even if it's true..

while people are selling short Jordan's wing competition(like one of the most underrated players of all-time, Clyde Drexler, for instance), I'd say the wing competition is better..but what's the difference? it doesn't speak about the player IMO..

sorry to break this to people, but Lebron, Wade and Kobe don't consistently guard the other team's best player..in some games, they never do..McGrady, Carter, Iverson..these guys don't guard the other team's best wing player..so what's the difference with the competition? the guys that are guarding the elite wing players are mostly the Bowens and the Battiers of the NBA..

while Jordan might not have faced the same level of "elite wingmen" from an individual/talent standpoint, he was still being guarded by the same types of defensive specialists in his era..a tougher, more physical era IMO..

so the caliber of the opposing playes is irrelevant here, unless you're speaking about Jordan's defensive ability..the guy won a DPOY over a great defensive role player in Mark Eaton, and over a guy who is arguably the GOAT on the defensive side in Olajuwon..

it's also irrelevant in terms of competition of teams..since Jordan was in a league with teams led by Olajuwon, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Robinson, Drexler, Bird, Magic, among others..

[conleyorbust]

No swing of that era was even in Jordan's realm athletically and they certainly did not possess a comparable skill set.

IMO Jordan would have "trouble" guarding; Kobe, D. Wade, LeBron, healthy TMAC, and Paul Pierce. Jordan did not possess the lateral quickness to keep up with the speedier swingmen like D. Wade. He also did not possess the strength to keep up with Bron, TMAC, or Melo. Jordan did not face SFs, PFs, or Cs ,that were as fast as him or quicker, that played like PGs and SGs. Magic is the exception but his career was cut short. Jordan's post scoring would take a hit because he would not be able to back down the stronger players in today's league. I agree that Jordan would "get his", but it would not come as easy as it did in his era.

???

Seriously? The players weren't athletic enough in the 90s? Jordan didn't have the lateral quickness?

Physically, Lebron, Kobe, and Wade are sort of like Jordan in that all four have a devestating combination of strength, quickness, and explosiveness. They would give him "trouble" because any great player is going to give any good defender "trouble" and there were certainly guys who had big scoring nights against Jordan.

... but to act like Jordan never faced an athletic dude, have you heard of Drexler? Not strong enough to post up? Jordan was posting up today's swing men as a 40 year old... when he was in his athletic prime, he was one of the quickest (yes, laterally too), strongest, most athletic players this game has ever seen. He'd be able to post up easily today, and not just because of his athleticism but because of his impeccable footwork.

[HarlemHeat37]

it's funny that Jordan's game at 39-40 is ignored, despite the fact that he was putting up 20 PPG, with 6 rebounds and 4 assists on 44.5% shooting..some people need to think about how difficult that is at that age, playing on a Wizards team full of injuries and where his best supporting player is Jerry Stackhouse..

[NO-KG-AI]

The point of this is to disparage Mike's accomplishments, but it's pointless anyway, because none of these 3 guys can slow the other down, and none of them have faced each other in a playoff series anyway.

Kobe playing against LeBron and Wade a combined 4 times a year isn't the reason he is trailing so far behind Mike.

[HarlemHeat37]

again, this thread is stupid because it's basically comparing the defense of these players..because that's the only part that would make sense in relation to the competition they faced..I don't really see how you can go against the guy that won a DPOY over Hakeem Olajuwon, and obviously not in the Camby way..and again, none of these guys guarded the other team's best player on a consistent basis..I didn't watch Jordan as much as I did Lebron, Kobe, and Wade..so I won't comment on Mike in relation to that, but I know for a fact that none of those 3 guys guard the other team's best player on a consistent basis(maybe moreso Wade this year, since his team is lacking in general, but not in the past when he had guys like Posey)..

[The Main Event]

Yi is best swing man eva

Jordan numba 2

Honestly, why do you bother posting?

[Blame Rasho]

I see no holes in any of these three players, other than Kobe's lack of heart sometimes,

Honestly are you this blind or obtuse?

[litex]

Of COURSE MJ didn't face the competition there is today among swingmen, because the entire reason there are so many high-scoring isolation swingmen and teams built around them is due to Jordan's influence. An entire generation grew up wanting to be Michael, and a few of them, like Kobe, Lebron and Wade, actually came fairly close, which is still much better than any of Michael's contemporaries at his position.

[Farm Raid]

it's pointless anyway, because none of these 3 guys can slow the other down, and none of them have faced each other in a playoff series anyway.

Kobe playing against LeBron and Wade a combined 4 times a year isn't the reason he is trailing so far behind Mike.

Correct.

Also correct is the observation that these people that want to try to take Michael Jordan down a peg conveniently forget he was one of the best swingmen in the game when he was 39 and 40- naturally he'd be the best by a large margin during his prime. They honestly love to forget that he put up 22/6/5 at a very advanced basketball age.

Also the idea that every 00s champion was better than the 90s West champs the Bulls faced is hilarious. That's four 62+ win teams a team with a prime Magic and a team with a prime Drexler. Get right.

[Jordan23Forever]

No Bowen did not, the Spurs defended LeBron well. It's easy for a team to key in on one guy when the rest of your team can't hit an open jumpshot. Why do some of you guys act like Jordan made every shot he took, and he played the best man on man defense ever to be seen by a pair of eyes? Jordan did not steal nor block every shot that came came his way. Jordan did not have a gold glow, lol.

The point -- if you would have tried to grasp it instead of getting on your soapbox -- is that Jordan would have done as good a job as anyone. No one said that he would "shut down" Lebron -- far from it. In fact, if you would have read my second paragraph, you'd have seen that I noted that Lebron would get his. I just feel Jordan would outplay him over the course of a series.

Fact of the matter is, Jordan had NO competition at position. No swing of that era was even in Jordan's realm athletically and they certainly did not possess a comparable skill set.

Drexler and Nique were certainly "in Jordan's realm" athletically, as was Harper until he injured himself.

Btw, who possesses a "comparable skill set" to Jordan even today? Only Kobe does. Not Lebron, not Wade.

If Jordan played in this era he would still be very very very very good, but things would not be as "easy" (not saying it was easy, it's the only word I could think of) as they were for him.

Jordan would average 32-34 pts/6-7 reb/5.5-6.5 ast/2.5+ stl/1+ blk/49-51.5% FG assuming he was age 25-29. He would lead the league in PER/EFF or be top 2 every single season, just as he was in his day. Only a fool would try to deny this.

The way the game is called today would make Jordan adjust how he plays defense. There is no hand checking in today's game.

I agree, but that works both ways. Jordan's defense wasn't as reliant on handchecks as others of his era, however. His lateral movement, defensive fundamentals, and anticipation were at least as good as any perimeter defender playing today. So I think he'd be fine. Offensively, he'd have a field day since no one could put their hands on him (as you suggest). Jordan got by guys who were giving him 5-6 feet of space AND who put one or two hands on him as he made his initial move -- now you're not going to be able to do that? He'd feast.

Today's game also has several different kinds of zones to slow players like Jordan down.

Amazingly, players who are clearly inferior to Jordan seem to have no problem with zone, and have put up phenomenal stat lines:

2006:

Kobe: 35/5/4/45%
Lebron: 31/7/7/48%
Wade: 27/6/7/50%
Iverson: 33/4/7/46%

2007:

Kobe: 32/6/5/46%
Lebron: 27/7/6/48%
Wade: 27/5/8/49%
Anthony: 29/6/4/48%

2008:

Lebron: 30/8/7/49%
Kobe: 28/6/5/46%

2009 (thus far):

Lebron: 27/7/6/49%
Wade: 30/5/8/50%

So it seems that players who are inferior to Jordan are able to do just fine, and have put up some very impressive numbers. But Jordan, who is at least an equal athlete with far better skills than anyone on that list aside from Kobe, is somehow going to struggle and not get his numbers? Give me a break...

IMO Jordan would have "trouble" guarding; Kobe, D. Wade, LeBron, healthy TMAC, and Paul Pierce.

These guys would all have good/great games against him occasionally, but he'd do better than any of the other star wings defensively, and better than most every other wing defender simply because he'd get up for these games.

Jordan did not possess the lateral quickness to keep up with the speedier swingmen like D. Wade.

First off, who would you say defends Wade well who's above 6'4" tall? I can guarantee you that, whoever you mention, Jordan has better lateral movement than them, because I can't think of a 6'4"+ player in the league who has better lateral movement than Jordan aside from perhaps Wade himself. Jordan would do as good a job as any other wing defender on Wade.

I get the sense that you just like to hear yourself talk, because talking about lateral movement in regard to Jordan as some sort of negative, while not saying the same about EVERY OTHER WING PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE, strikes me as absurd.

He also did not possess the strength to keep up with Bron, TMAC, or Melo.

TMac? Jordan was at least as strong as Tmac, even during the first three-peat. Melo and Bron probably not, but who does? Again, who guards these guys now? Do they have any success? Jordan would have similar success; he'd get burned at times (as anyone would against any great scorer), but he'd alo have success in line with the best wing defenders today.

Jordan did not face SFs, PFs, or Cs ,that were as fast as him or quicker

What PF/C is as fast as Jordan or quicker? What, Lebron? One player? Lebron isn't a PF, thouh he has lower-end PF size. And Bron isn't as quick as Jordan was -- get real. Speed is debatable.

that played like PGs and SGs.

Again, only Lebron fits these ludicrous descriptions you're throwing out. He's an outlier.

Jordan's post scoring would take a hit because he would not be able to back down the stronger players in today's league.

Jordan from age 24-30 didn'tr ely much on the post anyway, though he had it in his arsenal. I also have to LOL @ the claim that he wouldn't be able to back people down. Sure.

I agree that Jordan would "get his", but it would not come as easy as it did in his era.

It wasn't easy in his era to begin with; if it were, there wouldn't have been a yawning gulf between him and the next player statistically for most years of his prime. And not just between him and the next best SG, but between him and the next best player at ANY position. Jordan didn't just dominate opposing wing players -- he dominated PF/C's in an era that was loaded to the gills with talent at these positions.

The notion that Jordan would dominate today is absurd and basically indefensible. People need to educate themselves on what Jordan was, and what he was capable of. Here's a starting point; these are the video pages of some youtube users with multiple Jordan games up. Watch them thoroughy and then try to tell people that that guy in those videos wouldn't dominate today. Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=hoopsencyclopedia&view=videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=joleroke&view=videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=starks23&view=videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=SPMJ&view=videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=blackadam06&view=videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=mlynch07&view=videos

This is just a sample...

Also, something to note:

Jordan at age 39 through the first 45 games of the 2002 season before he injured his knee and sat out for a month, against 90% of the same players playing today, averaged 25.1 pts/6.2 reb/5.1 ast/1.5 stl/.5 blk/43% FG. He was one of just two players averaging 25+/6+/5+ that season along with TMac. At age 39. He scored 40+ more than all but three players (Shaq/AI/Tmac)...at age 39. He had back-to-back games of 40+ points...twice...at age 39.

Jordan after turning age 40 in the 2003 season, averaged 23.2 pts/7.2 reb/3.8 ast/1.5 stl/.5 blk/46.2% FG over the final 30 games of the season.

But yeah, tell me again how he wouldn't do just fine today...

.

[NO-KG-AI]

Kobe can back down guys in the post today just fine, Jordan was stronger lol. And Rofl at T-Mac being stronger than Jordan.

[KF10]

No mention about Mitch Richmond? Jordan clearly stated that he was one of the most difficult players to contain in the NBA iirc. I remember reading and seeing several clips/articles of that topic as well. Mitch has to be one of the most underrated players out here.

Here is a clip between Richmond/Jordan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=strS0G2PCBk

[KF10]

Not trying to hijack the thread but here is a clip showing how underrated Mitch was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbtn4B5G ... re=related

[TMU]

It's not like MJ was always up against other SGs. He also challenged Ewing, Olajuwon, and D-Rob when he attacked the basket. So to say that Jordan didn't face a lot of competition based on his opposing SGs is flat out silly.