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I'm not saying guys like Howard & Wallace aren't candidates but I think Ron is the DPOY so far. Who else do you all believe should be on the list?

Completely disagree. I think you are being blinded by one great performance on Danny Granger.

Dwight Howard will be the best defensive player in this league for the foreseeable future. He has led the Magic to having the 4th best defense in the league while being surrounded by terrible defensive players. It truly is remarkable.

Banks2Pierce wrote:Completely disagree. I think you are being blinded by one great performance on Danny Granger.

Dwight Howard will be the best defensive player in this league for the foreseeable future. He has led the Magic to having the 4th best defense in the league while being surrounded by terrible defensive players. It truly is remarkable.

Howard is giving up more points (to his man) than Artest is and the Lakers has had the best 3pt fg% defense since his arrival. Yea the blocks are nice but at the same time he's avg 4 fouls per game as well. He's playing great Team D while artest is playing great team and man D. Also this aint about just Granger he's been playing great defense all year minus his lil injury period.

Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

What do those numbers mean? and where are they from?

Ummm no its all about Dwight Howard.

LakersSquad wrote:

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

What do those numbers mean? and where are they from?

Not sure if you're serious....
http://www.basketball-reference.com

DRtg = Defensive Rating

DWS = Defensive Win Shares

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

The results say otherwise

10/27/09 OPENING NIGHT
Al Thornton
8 points (4/11 [36%], 0/0 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.1 -- FG% .484 -- 3P% .389 -- TOV 1.3


10/30/09
Dirk Nowitzki
21 points (5/14 [35%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]), 1 TOV
PTS 25.0 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .360 -- TOV 1.83
* Artest guarded him


11/1/09
Marvin Williams
6 points (1/6 [16%], 0/2 from 3, 1 TOV
PTS 10.0 -- FG% 43 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 0.8


11/3/09
Kevin Durant
28 points (10/24 [41%], 0/8 from 3), 7 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/4/09
Trevor Ariza
15 points (5/21 [23%], 2/7 from 3 [28%]), 3 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/15/09
Trevor Ariza
9 points (2/12 [16%], 1/7 from 3 [14%]), 6 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/17/09
Charlie Villanueva
2 points (1/6 [16%]. 0/2 from 3), 0 TOV, 23 minutes
PTS -- 12.4 -- FG% .435 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 1.18 -- MPG 25
* Artest guarded him


11/19/09
Luol Deng
6 points (3/11 [27%], 0/2 from 3), 2 TOV
PTS -- 18.2 -- FG% .465 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.98


11/22/09
Kevin Durant
19 points (8/20 [40%], 2/5 from 3 [40%]), 3 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/24/09
Wilson Chandler
15 points (5/20 [25%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]), 1 TOV
PTS 15.3 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .283 -- TOV 1.76


11/29/09
Chris Douglas-Roberts
5 points (2/11 [18%], 1/1 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.0 -- FG% .453 -- 3P% .300 -- TOV 1.60


12/9/09
Ronnie Brewer
9 points (3/8 [37%], 0/0 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 9.5 -- FG% .495 -- 3P% .495 -- TOV 1.0


12/11/09
Ryan Gomes
4 points (2/6 [33%], 0/1 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .446 -- 3P% .367 -- TOV 1.24


12/16/09
Carlos Delfino
0 points (0/2, 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 10.3 -- FG% .407 -- 3P% .356 -- TOV 1.62


12/25/09
LeBron James
26 points (9/19 [47%], 2/7 [28%]) 7 TOV
PTS 30.0 -- FG% .503 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 3.48


1/5/10
Trevor Ariza
12 points (5/14 [35%], 1/5 from 3 [20%]) 2 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


1/15/10
Rasual Butler
7 points (2/8 [25%], 0/3 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 11.5 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 0.76


1/24/10
Hedo Turkoglu
9 points (1/6 [16%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]) 0 TOV
PTS 12.7 -- FG% .415 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.83


1/29/10
Andre Iguodala
8 points (3/7 [42%], 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


1/31/10
Paul Pierce
15 points (4/11 [36%], 3/7 from 3 [42%]) 4 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/6/10
Martell Webster
2 points (1/7 [14%], 0/4 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .404 -- 3P% .372 -- TOV 0.84


2/8/10
Richard Jefferson
9 points (2/9 [22%], 0/1 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 12.2 -- FG% .448 -- 3P% .348 -- TOV 1.34


2/16/10
Corey Maggette
17 points (4/13 [30%], 0/0 from 3) 6 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .510 -- 3P% .238 -- TOV 2.52


2/18/10
Paul Pierce
11 points (4/9 [44%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]) 1 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/23/10
Rudy Gay
17 points (7/17 [41%], 0/1 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .471 -- 3P% .326 -- TOV 1.89


2/24/10
Shawn Marion
10 points (5/11 [45%], 0/0 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 11.4 -- FG% .498 -- 3P% .083 -- TOV 1.35


2/26/10
Andre Iguodala
13 points (5/15 [33%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]) 2 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


2/28/10
Carmelo Anthony
21 points (7/19 [36%], 0/2 from 3) 8 TOV
PTS 28.8 -- FG% .457 -- 3P% .344 -- TOV 3.26

1/2/10
Danny Granger
9 points (2/9 [22%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]), 4 TOV
PTS 23.0 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .354 -- TOV 2.49

LakersSquad wrote:I'm not saying guys like Howard & Wallace aren't candidates but I think Ron is the DPOY so far. Who else do you all believe should be on the list?

Seriously?! Didn't he just recently start defending like the old Artest? I remember a bunch of people earlier this year asking, whats wrong with Artest.

He should be in the discussion, but no way does he beat out Howard. Other then Howard, who on the Magic is a good defender in that starting line up?
Nelson? Midget that gets smoked by EVERYONE
Carter? Can defend for spurts, but he doesn't try enough
Lewis? Not too bad considering he is undersized, however when a big PF comes he gets torched
Barnes? Only other good defender in the starting lineup

Look what Howard has to work with yet every year the Magic are ranked top 5 in defense.

Artest has Kobe, Bynum and Gasol who are all good defenders.

its kinda crazy though how ron ron's defensive intensity permeates onto players like shannon brown and jordan farmar... and then when i saw how DFish stripped Billups on a crucial play, i now believe that "Impossible is NOTHING!!!" Ball.

tranjSAIC wrote:

LakersSquad wrote:I'm not saying guys like Howard & Wallace aren't candidates but I think Ron is the DPOY so far. Who else do you all believe should be on the list?

Seriously?! Didn't he just recently start defending like the old Artest? I remember a bunch of people earlier this year asking, whats wrong with Artest.

He should be in the discussion, but no way does he beat out Howard. Other then Howard, who on the Magic is a good defender in that starting line up?
Nelson? Midget that gets smoked by EVERYONE
Carter? Can defend for spurts, but he doesn't try enough
Lewis? Not too bad considering he is undersized, however when a big PF comes he gets torched
Barnes? Only other good defender in the starting lineup

Look what Howard has to work with yet every year the Magic are ranked top 5 in defense.

Artest has Kobe, Bynum and Gasol who are all good defenders.

Just started? wtf? Lakers fans never complained about his defense he's been very good this year minus when he had the foot injury. oh yea Bynum and Pau are ok defenders they have their days where they play good defense but for the most part their avg.

Did you really list stat lines from;

Ryan Gomes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Rasual Butler
Carlos Delfino
Ronnie Brewer
Martell Webster
and
Marvin Williams

to prove Artest is the DPOY?

You have persuaded me.

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Did you really list stat lines from;

Ryan Gomes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Rasual Butler
Carlos Delfino
Ronnie Brewer
Martell Webster
and
Marvin Williams

to prove Artest is the DPOY?

You have persuaded me.

should I list the below avg Centers who has had great games vs Howard?

LakersSquad wrote:
should I list the below avg Centers who has had great games vs Howard?

Do it !

lol

magicfan4life05 wrote:

LakersSquad wrote:
should I list the below avg Centers who has had great games vs Howard?

Do it !

just a quick skim through games

Bargs aint avg but he got over his avg vs Howard
26pts 66%fg his avg 17pts 47%

Krstic 14pts 58% his avg 8ppg 49%

Randolph (GSW) 28pts 13rpg his avg 11ppg 6rpg

Shaq 20pts and only one missed fg attempt? lol

Haywood 18pts 15 rebs fg% 100% LOL his avg 9ppg 10rpg 56%fg

yeah sure why not

LakersSquad wrote:

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Did you really list stat lines from;

Ryan Gomes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Rasual Butler
Carlos Delfino
Ronnie Brewer
Martell Webster
and
Marvin Williams

to prove Artest is the DPOY?

You have persuaded me.

should I list the below avg Centers who has had great games vs Howard?

No you should list their counterpart #'s while on the floor, and a variety of other metrics like DMult/DQual and Def.RTG/WS, Def.Adj +/-. Simply posting statlines of players he may or may not have been defending isnt doing the comparison justice. Atleast if your trying to measure defensive impact objectively.

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

It is one way to look at those numbers which are derived from the boxscore numbers. The other way would be looking at the On/Off court and Net numbers for both.

Artest On: 100.5
Artest Off: 105.0
Artest Net: -4.5

Howard On: 103.0
Howard Off: 105.3
Howard Net: -2.3

Seems like Artest improves the Lakers defense more than Howard improves the Magic defense. Both teams are close to each other in DRtg while neither of both players is on the court. Therefore Artest is in fact a really good candidate for DPOY.

I like On/Off Court numbers more, because the boxscore numbers aren't really good to determine defense. In fact defensive rebounds have the highest correlation to DRtg with a linear correlation coefficent of around 0.4, steals has a higher correlation to DRtg than blocked shots, but neither is higher than 0.2. Those values are rather bad. So, I wouldn't rely too much on DRtg and DWS, especially for perimeter players.

J-Ville Smoke wrote:Did you really list stat lines from;

Ryan Gomes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Rasual Butler
Carlos Delfino
Ronnie Brewer
Martell Webster
and
Marvin Williams

to prove Artest is the DPOY?

You have persuaded me.

yeah, and what about
Durant (twice)
James
Gay
Iggy
Granger
Dirk
Deng
Hedo

and doesn't even mention fouling Anthony out the other night. C'mon man, come correct please.