Was the league's top end talent more loaded in 2016 and 2017 than it is now?

ardee · Post #1 » by **ardee** » Sun May 8, 2022 11:45 pm

I was looking at the POY threads and man especially 2017 was just such a war at the top of the league. LeBron, Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Kawhi, CP3, Harden, Draymond and Davis all at or around their peaks.

Pretty much every single one of those guys is either a little to a lot worse or just injured a lot more.

Sure we have Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Luka now but do they make up for the gap in talent with the rest of the guys?

HeartBreakKid · Post #2 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon May 9, 2022 12:09 am

James, Durant and Curry are still around, not as good as they used to be but still top end talents.

Davis and Kawhi are not really around ATM because of injuries.

Westbrook is the only player who got worse to the point of irrelevancy. CP3 is still pretty good. Harden probably just needs an off season to recover.

Does Jokic, Embiid, Gianis and Luka make up for lack of Westbrook, a decline in CP3/Harden and Leonard/Davis not being there?

Yeah, I'd say so.

ardee · Post #3 » by **ardee** » Mon May 9, 2022 12:33 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:James, Durant and Curry are still around, not as good as they used to be but still top end talents.

Davis and Kawhi are not really around ATM because of injuries.

Westbrook is the only player who got worse to the point of irrelevancy. CP3 is still pretty good. Harden probably just needs an off season to recover.

Does Jokic, Embiid, Gianis and Luka make up for lack of Westbrook, a decline in CP3/Harden and Leonard/Davis not being there?

Yeah, I'd say so.

Do you really think Harden can get back to top 5 level next year?

RCM88x · Post #4 » by **RCM88x** » Mon May 9, 2022 12:39 am

Hard to say honestly, but it's probably a yes. One thing that is definitely true is that the maturing of the pace and space league has significantly improved the quality of the average player.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #5 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Mon May 9, 2022 6:55 am

Yes because I think Lebron, Kawhi, and maybe Steph was likely better than any player today
. Than you have guys like CP3, KD, Harden, having some sort of MVP level impact in my opinion. And the MVP in 2017, Russell Westbrook hasn't even been mentioned yet.

Stalwart · Post #6 » by **Stalwart** » Mon May 9, 2022 8:50 am

I think you're forgetting a few guys. I would also consider Booker, Morant, Trae, Tatum, and KAT to be top end talent. Lamelo will probably be considered a top end player next year.

I think its just the natural cycle. The current generation is still on the young side and haven't fully established themselves like the previous generation had done by 2017. That group of guys listed in the op had been establishing themselves for 5 years by then. Were in year 2 or 3 for this generation.

Give it time and perceptions will change.

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Mon May 9, 2022 8:59 am

Stalwart wrote:I think you're forgetting a few guys. I would also consider Booker, Morant, Trae, and KAT to be top end talent. Lamelo will probably be considered a top end player next year

(...)

That group of guys listed in the op had been establishing themselves for 5 years by then. Were in year 2 or 3 for this generation.

Booker and KAT are, like, 7 year veterans already (!).

And if that is the standard for "top end talent", then yes, 2016 and 2017 was much more loaded on top.

Stalwart · Post #8 » by **Stalwart** » Mon May 9, 2022 9:22 am

Jaivl wrote:
Stalwart wrote:I think you're forgetting a few guys. I would also consider Booker, Morant, Trae, and KAT to be top end talent. Lamelo will probably be considered a top end player next year

(...)

That group of guys listed in the op had been establishing themselves for 5 years by then. Were in year 2 or 3 for this generation.

Booker and KAT are, like, 7 year veterans already (!).

KD, Steph, Westbrook, Harden were like 8-10 year veterans in 2017. However they had only been "top end" and relevant for about 5 years at that point. The current group of top end guys are 4-7 year veterans but have only been "top end" and relevant for 3 to 4 years. Give them another year or two and we'll be looking at this group the same as we look at the one from 2017.