Top 12 seasons between Larry Bird and LeBron James

[capfan33]

2010 Lebron is getting severly underrated in some of these posts. Like yea the playoffs weren't ideal but even taking them at face value he had a noticably better series statistically against the Celtics than Kobe did and was otherwordly the rest of the year. I don't know enough about Bird to comfortably do this but I'll try.

1. 13 James
2. 17 James
3. 09 James
4. 10 James
5. 14 James
6. 18 James
7. 16 James
8. 86 Bird
9. 12 James
10. 84 Bird
11. 87 Bird
12. 20 James

[Jaivl]

16 LeBron
13 LeBron
12 LeBron
09 LeBron
17 LeBron
18 LeBron
10 LeBron
20 LeBron
15 LeBron
14 LeBron
20 LeBron
15 LeBron

Scientific criteria: dropped all seasons that sucked relative to today's era.

2020 bron so good he appeared twice

Don't argue with science, heretic

Real list, or something

2012 LeBron
2016 LeBron
2013 LeBron
2009 LeBron
2014 LeBron
1986 Bird
2017 LeBron
2010 LeBron
1987 Bird
2018 LeBron
2020 LeBron
1984 Bird

[Cavsfansince84]

2010 Lebron is getting severly underrated in some of these posts. Like yea the playoffs weren't ideal but even taking them at face value he had a noticably better series statistically against the Celtics than Kobe did and was otherwordly the rest of the year. I don't know enough about Bird to comfortably do this but I'll try.

1. 13 James
2. 17 James
3. 09 James
4. 10 James
5. 14 James
6. 18 James
7. 16 James
8. 86 Bird
9. 12 James
10. 84 Bird
11. 87 Bird
12. 20 James

It depends how much you want to weigh the playoffs though tbh. Bird in 87 sort of carried a hobbled McHale/Walton to the finals and then comes within a fumbled rebound of being 2-2 with what some would say was the best Showtime team and had a huge ecf. LeBron otoh lost in the second round and things just went sideways. So I understand why 2010 gets downgraded and I did it myself because I give a lot of credence/bonus to the playoffs and the Cavs in 2010 went off the rails.

[f4p]

i feel like people underrate 2015 lebron. after the LeBattical, the cavs dominated to finish the season. in the playoffs, i get it, lebron couldn't throw it in the ocean, but he also won the east without love and with kyrie basically being a part-time player in the 2nd and 3rd round. kyrie barely cracked double digits in games 3 and 4 against chicaco, and barely played and scored 6 points in game 6. and against atlanta, he played 49 minutes over the course of games 1 and 4.

lebron was still such a force of nature that he could just "volume" his way to victory even without the efficiency. and nowhere was this more clear than in the finals, where he practically won the series on sheer willpower. that team had no business winning 2 games, much less with lebron's poor efficiency, but between taking on a historic offensive load and having the whole team killing themselves on defense, they somehow had the warriors scared. i'm not entirely sure 2014 could do that, and i definitely don't think 2020 lebron could have taken on that workload and survived. YMMV on 2010 lebron depending on how you feel about the playoffs.

[SNPA]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

[homecourtloss]

i feel like people underrate 2015 lebron. after the LeBattical, the cavs dominated to finish the season. in the playoffs, i get it, lebron couldn't throw it in the ocean, but he also won the east without love and with kyrie basically being a part-time player in the 2nd and 3rd round. kyrie barely cracked double digits in games 3 and 4 against chicaco, and barely played and scored 6 points in game 6. and against atlanta, he played 49 minutes over the course of games 1 and 4.

lebron was still such a force of nature that he could just "volume" his way to victory even without the efficiency. and nowhere was this more clear than in the finals, where he practically won the series on sheer willpower. that team had no business winning 2 games, much less with lebron's poor efficiency, but between taking on a historic offensive load and having the whole team killing themselves on defense, they somehow had the warriors scared. i'm not entirely sure 2014 could do that, and i definitely don't think 2020 lebron could have taken on that workload and survived. YMMV on 2010 lebron depending on how you feel about the playoffs.

LeBattical…LOL

In many ways that was their best team. 33-3 with all three playing until Love got hurt. They barely even trailed at home (a bunch of wire to wire wins), played at a +11 to +12 SRS level. It was incredibly bad luck with the injuries. Imagine that Cavs’ team with a 2016 or 2017 healthy LeBron…

Also, interesting fact: the Warriors didn’t lead after any quarter in regulation until game 4. That’s just wild.

[f4p]

LeBattical…LOL

i wish i could take credit. it's so perfect.

Also, interesting fact: the Warriors didn’t lead after any quarter in regulation until game 4. That’s just wild.

wow.

[homecourtloss]

LeBattical…LOL

i wish i could take credit. it's so perfect.

Also, interesting fact: the Warriors didn’t lead after any quarter in regulation until game 4. That’s just wild.

wow.

1971 Bucks never trailed after any quarter in their 4 game sweep of the Bullets.
1959 Celtics never trailed after any quarter in their 4 game sweep of the Lakers.
2002 Lakers first trailed after the first quarter in game 4 in their sweep of the Nets.
2015 Cavs first trailed after the first quarter in game 4 of the Finals

[JordansBulls]

Nothing to see here, just transparent objective criteria, you know, science stuff.

Spoiler:

Step 1: Drop all seasons with PER less than 24.
That gives me 6 candidate-seasons for Bird, and an incredible 18 for James. Now I have a nice big pool of peak seasons to further research.

Step 2: Drop all seasons with MVP vote rank of 4th or worse.
The 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 11 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 3: Drop any season in which during a Finals, one or more of these things happened: (a) even though it was NOT their first finals appearance, the star was inexplicably and consistently dazed, lethargic, and generally disassociated from their normal levels of play, (b) the star's team was either Swept OR Gentleman Swept by a very old team, or (c) the star's team won a title in unprecedented artificial empty pristine conditions, where many teams did not want to stay or compete, and somehow the home team was the only one to show much spirit other than the star's winning team.
Hmm, not sure how those might apply, let's see, oh hey, what do you know, bing-bang-and-bongo - imagine the odds!
So, let's see, the 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 8 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 4: Drop any season with RS TOV% over 14 and/or RS WS under 12.
The Bird seasons stay again, and now James is down to 6 of his own as well.

Weird how some of these steps are impacting only one player.
Stats and analytics and research can be a bit strange sometimes, yeah?
But so insightful, so powerful, objective, so clean, so true, am I right?

Step 5: Now that we have 12 seasons in total, we shall for the final step simply rank all 12 by RS USG%, with the lower RS USG% being preferred. Why? Oh, I think you know why. I am sure there are lots of good reasons to prefer excellent seasons with lower USG%, yes? It is still a team game after all, at least I thought it was.

Hey, let's look at the results now, shall we?
So much science, so much deep inquiry, into what was previously clouded by faulty memory, false narratives, and biased preferences - no more such irrationality I say! Be gone!

And don't worry, I won't invoke a Special Eras Adjustment, since that is so controversial anyways. We will just assume that all 12 of these excellent seasons are perfectly comparable after meeting all previous steps. Let's see how it all shakes out!

1. Bird 1982-83
2. Bird 1983-84
3. Bird 1986-87
4. Bird 1985-86
5. Bird 1984-85
6. Bird 1987-88
7. James 2012-13
8. James 2015-16
9. James 2011-12
10. James 2009-10
11. James 2005-06
12. James 2008-09

Bird in 1983 got swept with HCA to Milwaukee how in the world could that be #1 especially among Bird's seasons?

[falcolombardi]

Nothing to see here, just transparent objective criteria, you know, science stuff.

Spoiler:

Step 1: Drop all seasons with PER less than 24.
That gives me 6 candidate-seasons for Bird, and an incredible 18 for James. Now I have a nice big pool of peak seasons to further research.

Step 2: Drop all seasons with MVP vote rank of 4th or worse.
The 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 11 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 3: Drop any season in which during a Finals, one or more of these things happened: (a) even though it was NOT their first finals appearance, the star was inexplicably and consistently dazed, lethargic, and generally disassociated from their normal levels of play, (b) the star's team was either Swept OR Gentleman Swept by a very old team, or (c) the star's team won a title in unprecedented artificial empty pristine conditions, where many teams did not want to stay or compete, and somehow the home team was the only one to show much spirit other than the star's winning team.
Hmm, not sure how those might apply, let's see, oh hey, what do you know, bing-bang-and-bongo - imagine the odds!
So, let's see, the 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 8 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 4: Drop any season with RS TOV% over 14 and/or RS WS under 12.
The Bird seasons stay again, and now James is down to 6 of his own as well.

Weird how some of these steps are impacting only one player.
Stats and analytics and research can be a bit strange sometimes, yeah?
But so insightful, so powerful, objective, so clean, so true, am I right?

Step 5: Now that we have 12 seasons in total, we shall for the final step simply rank all 12 by RS USG%, with the lower RS USG% being preferred. Why? Oh, I think you know why. I am sure there are lots of good reasons to prefer excellent seasons with lower USG%, yes? It is still a team game after all, at least I thought it was.

Hey, let's look at the results now, shall we?
So much science, so much deep inquiry, into what was previously clouded by faulty memory, false narratives, and biased preferences - no more such irrationality I say! Be gone!

And don't worry, I won't invoke a Special Eras Adjustment, since that is so controversial anyways. We will just assume that all 12 of these excellent seasons are perfectly comparable after meeting all previous steps. Let's see how it all shakes out!

1. Bird 1982-83
2. Bird 1983-84
3. Bird 1986-87
4. Bird 1985-86
5. Bird 1984-85
6. Bird 1987-88
7. James 2012-13
8. James 2015-16
9. James 2011-12
10. James 2009-10
11. James 2005-06
12. James 2008-09

Bird in 1983 got swept with HCA to Milwaukee how in the world could that be #1 especially among Bird's seasons?

There is somethingh very odd about evaluating players off playoffa but using the often ignored altogether regular season to do so

It means players get zero credit for playing a great regular season and all of the criticism for it in case they lose

The perverse thingh is that it helps players and teams who underperform in the regular season and punishes those who play great in the reg season

[Ginoboleee]

Nothing to see here, just transparent objective criteria, you know, science stuff.

Spoiler:

Step 1: Drop all seasons with PER less than 24.
That gives me 6 candidate-seasons for Bird, and an incredible 18 for James. Now I have a nice big pool of peak seasons to further research.

Step 2: Drop all seasons with MVP vote rank of 4th or worse.
The 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 11 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 3: Drop any season in which during a Finals, one or more of these things happened: (a) even though it was NOT their first finals appearance, the star was inexplicably and consistently dazed, lethargic, and generally disassociated from their normal levels of play, (b) the star's team was either Swept OR Gentleman Swept by a very old team, or (c) the star's team won a title in unprecedented artificial empty pristine conditions, where many teams did not want to stay or compete, and somehow the home team was the only one to show much spirit other than the star's winning team.
Hmm, not sure how those might apply, let's see, oh hey, what do you know, bing-bang-and-bongo - imagine the odds!
So, let's see, the 6 Bird candidate-seasons from above all stay, while now James has ONLY 8 candidate-seasons left in the pool.

Step 4: Drop any season with RS TOV% over 14 and/or RS WS under 12.
The Bird seasons stay again, and now James is down to 6 of his own as well.

Weird how some of these steps are impacting only one player.
Stats and analytics and research can be a bit strange sometimes, yeah?
But so insightful, so powerful, objective, so clean, so true, am I right?

Step 5: Now that we have 12 seasons in total, we shall for the final step simply rank all 12 by RS USG%, with the lower RS USG% being preferred. Why? Oh, I think you know why. I am sure there are lots of good reasons to prefer excellent seasons with lower USG%, yes? It is still a team game after all, at least I thought it was.

Hey, let's look at the results now, shall we?
So much science, so much deep inquiry, into what was previously clouded by faulty memory, false narratives, and biased preferences - no more such irrationality I say! Be gone!

And don't worry, I won't invoke a Special Eras Adjustment, since that is so controversial anyways. We will just assume that all 12 of these excellent seasons are perfectly comparable after meeting all previous steps. Let's see how it all shakes out!

1. Bird 1982-83
2. Bird 1983-84
3. Bird 1986-87
4. Bird 1985-86
5. Bird 1984-85
6. Bird 1987-88
7. James 2012-13
8. James 2015-16
9. James 2011-12
10. James 2009-10
11. James 2005-06
12. James 2008-09

Bird in 1983 got swept with HCA to Milwaukee how in the world could that be #1 especially among Bird's seasons?

There is somethingh very odd about evaluating players off playoffa but using the often ignored altogether regular season to do so

It means players get zero credit for playing a great regular season and all of the criticism for it in case they lose

The perverse thingh is that it helps players and teams who underperform in the regular season and punishes those who play great in the reg season

Right.
And we wonder why so many phone in the RS and crank it up in the playoffs.

[Ginoboleee]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

Thanks.
I got inspired.
Discouraged though that it didn't get more And1's.
Alas.

[Cavsfansince84]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

Classic cynical post that adds nothing on a board dedicated to debate. That sort of childishness belongs on the gb, not on the pc board.

[SNPA]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

Classic cynical post that adds nothing on a board dedicated to debate. That sort of childishness belongs on the gb, not on the pc board.

I’ll try harder next time.

[ceoofkobefans]

1. 13 LeBron
2. 12 LeBron
3. 09 LeBron
4. 10 LeBron
5. 14 LeBron
6. 16 LeBron
7. 17 LeBron
8. 11 LeBron
9. 86 bird
10. 87 bird
11. 84 bird
12. 18 LeBron

[iggymcfrack]

1. 2009 LeBron
2. 2016 LeBron
3. 2012 LeBron
4. 2013 LeBron
5. 2018 LeBron
6. 2017 LeBron
7. 2014 LeBron
8. 2020 LeBron
9. 2010 LeBron
10. 2008 LeBron
11. 2015 LeBron
12. 1986 Bird

[ty 4191]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

What are you laughing at?

[SNPA]

Lol at this thread. First two posts after the OP are classic.

What are you laughing at?

1. 09 LeBron
2. 12 LeBron
3. 13 LeBron
4. 16 LeBron
5. 17 LeBron
6. 20 LeBron
7. 86 Bird
8. 18 LeBron
10. 14 LeBron
11. 84 Bird
11. 87 Bird
12. 10 LeBron


1. Bird 1982-83
2. Bird 1983-84
3. Bird 1986-87
4. Bird 1985-86
5. Bird 1984-85
6. Bird 1987-88
7. James 2012-13
8. James 2015-16
9. James 2011-12
10. James 2009-10
11. James 2005-06
12. James 2008-09

That’s a dynamic start.

Then we progressed to this…

1. 2009 LeBron
2. 2016 LeBron
3. 2012 LeBron
4. 2013 LeBron
5. 2018 LeBron
6. 2017 LeBron
7. 2014 LeBron
8. 2020 LeBron
9. 2010 LeBron
10. 2008 LeBron
11. 2015 LeBron
12. 1986 Bird


Yup. 11 seasons better than 86 Bird.

[ty 4191]

Yup. 11 seasons better than 86 Bird.

Great point!! That is ridiculous!!