Was 06 Dirk comparable or better than Jokic these past 2 seasons?

[Texas Chuck]

Fair enough. I mean as I acknowledge I am a massive Dirk homer, but I'm also not one for grandiose claims like this. But I stand by there can't be even 5 players who created more quality shots for teammates over their NBA careers and I think 5 is pushing it severely. I thought of every possible player and the only 2 I feel realistically could have created more are Lebron and Kareem.

But understand by created, I don't mean Dirk even touched the ball. Or had a hockey assist. I think we all remember than 2011 team for not just making the extra pass but often 2 or 3 extra passes.

I mean the defense's adjustments to Dirk specifically created the quality shot for a teammate. And the fact that we see Steph right now in real-time doing this same thing without making a pass proves the very concept.

I know you aren't a believer. 7 or 8 years ago you even argued that KG created more quality looks than Dirk, something I wonder if you still believe? KG a great passer, but put nowhere near the pressure on defenses that Dirk did. And if you have KG ahead of Dirk I imagine you have a lot of on-ball players ahead of Dirk. Which I understand but definitely disagree with that being a requirement.

Anyway back to Jokic being awesome. Because Jokic is a legit beast. Great scorer, arguably the best passer alive, clutch, versatile, simply a joy to watch play.

[tsherkin]

Fair enough. I mean as I acknowledge I am a massive Dirk homer, but I'm also not one for grandiose claims like this. But I stand by there can't be even 5 players who created more quality shots for teammates over their NBA careers and I think 5 is pushing it severely. I thought of every possible player and the only 2 I feel realistically could have created more are Lebron and Kareem.

Yup, I feel I comfortably understand your position. We don't agree, but that's okay. We don't have to, and as always, you provide interesting conversation regardless of whether or not we end up in agreement

But understand by created, I don't mean Dirk even touched the ball. Or had a hockey assist. I think we all remember than 2011 team for not just making the extra pass but often 2 or 3 extra passes.

Yep, I figured as much. And yes, the ball movement on that team was fantastic. And of course, even though Dirk wasn't a primary ball-handler or a world-building big ITO assist production, he clearly bought into the team philosophy. He was never a ball-stopper. I mean, I still remember (as I'm sure you do) when he was working with Nash and Finley, or 04 with Jamison and Walker... and Finley and Nash. And he just slotted in without issue.

I mean the defense's adjustments to Dirk specifically created the quality shot for a teammate. And the fact that we see Steph right now in real-time doing this same thing without making a pass proves the very concept.

In no way have I meant to poo-poo the concept of gravity. I very much believe in defense-warping presence from high-end offensive players, and Dirk was certainly that.

I know you aren't a believer.

I don't believe in the specific statement you made. I very much believe in Dirk's value as a focal offensive player.

7 or 8 years ago you even argued that KG created more quality looks than Dirk, something I wonder if you still believe? KG a great passer, but put nowhere near the pressure on defenses that Dirk did. And if you have KG ahead of Dirk I imagine you have a lot of on-ball players ahead of Dirk. Which I understand but definitely disagree with that being a requirement.

I don't think being on-ball is a requirement. That is an inference you are making on your own. What I said earlier is that I can think of a bunch of primary ball-handlers who I personally have ahead of Dirk in terms of how many open looks they create for their team. Not all of them are better overall offensive players, though.

Anyway back to Jokic being awesome. Because Jokic is a legit beast. Great scorer, arguably the best passer alive, clutch, versatile, simply a joy to watch play.

Don't know that I'd call him the best passer alive, but he's an absolutely ridiculous talent. He looks like someone went to town on MyPlayer in 2k and cheated, lmao. Dude's absolutely incredible and fun to watch.