Who's the most athletic PF of all time?

[SpreeS]

Larry Nance was a better athlete than everyone here including Giannis!

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Not impressed

6'10, mobile, fast, and getting his head at the square consistently. Don't make me show Giannis's horrible dunk contest! You were impressed with that?

I am not impressed with Giannis too

[Owly]

If Bobby Jones is a 4 (I tend to mentally categorize as a 3, don't know if that's justified) I'd mention him though that might be influenced by liking his game more generally (and of course while he went hard, asthma limited his minutes).

I suppose he's ok to mention, but not remotely in the running, imo.

He's got pretty good length......but not as good as Garnett, Giannis, Duncan, or probably Kemp either.

He's got excellent end-to-end speed.......but certainly no better than [or perhaps even as good as] KG, Giannis, or perhaps Kemp or Barkley either.

He was a good leaper, but not as much as Blake Griffin, Barkley, perhaps Kemp again (maybe others, too??).

Overall grace, body control, agility, hand/eye coordination, others.....idk, somewhere around the middle, or lower-middle, I would say.

In terms of motor/endurance, he's arguably the worst of all names mentioned thus far [due to his asthma].

In terms of strength/power, he's arguably the worst of all names mentioned thus far.


idk, this is my impression anyway. He's a very good athlete; just not an all-time tier, imo.


EDIT: Oh, and the answer [imho] is Giannis.

Well it was as a mention, and explicitly stated as such, rather than "I think he is ....". As before I like his game so ... maybe bias.

I'll grant that I'm no good at film study and opinions are from what I read in books and some of what I read places like here.

That said

1) My understanding is "motor" is generally understood here for activity. I do get, and before coming here would have thought of, that term or at least similar terms in terms of endurance ... playing long minutes. Hence the above attempt at distinguishing them as engine and motor, don't know if that works. Wilt might be thought of as having the former but perhaps not the latter, Jones and Manu the latter not the former. And fwiw, this flaw in Jones was acknowledged above. (fwiw, the high revving motor - my impression based largely I think off posts on here, lower usage may help - wasn't acknowledged in your listing).

2) I think he'd be high on body control, agility, hand eye etc. The blocks and steals he got without perception as a gambler. I haven't done close film study but reputationally my instinct is he could cover either forward position.

3) Per above above it depends to what extent we account for era norms. I think all the players mentioned bar Hawkins and Baylor from Penbeast are, at latest, starting in the 80s and going significantly into the 90s. This could just be taken as a plus in terms of standing out within era. Arguably too though, more modern players should be better trained, better taken care of, eat better, have better equipment and be the outliers on a larger curve [(1) global population; (2) % of population aware of basketball and able to access it, (3) percentage motivated towards it as a high end, high paying option for an elite athlete] though outliers by their nature can be messy, smaller samples etc.

4) I'd be surprised if he were weaker than Hawkins, especially in terms of applied basketball strength. I may be wrong.

5) Bar a couple of categories (one already acknowledged) you typically named circa 3 guys that you felt confident putting outright ahead of him. Now this was otoh, not including maybes, and you could be hedging conservative. That said hypothetically a guy ranking fourth in all the categories, could I think come out top or else very near given the number of names
Garnett
Kemp
Rodman
Giannis
Griffin
J Smith
Zion
James
Baylor
Hawkins
Marion
K Malone
Amar'e
Barkley
McDyess
is 15, 16 just throwing in Jones (and ignoring any mentioned in my post such as Nance [mentioned later by others], Swift etc). Now there's two categories very low and the stuff above ... it's not the case here but the above isn't a watertight case that he couldn't be quite seriously in the conversation and certainly not necessarily a low end outlier. Perhaps you chucked out Pen's examples?

6) See prior post regarding differing criteria with possibility of at peak but also longer term. I would say especially Kemp, but also Barkley weren't always committed to staying in shape and lost significant athleticism. Several fast twitch leapers like McDyess, Griffin, Zion (probably), Amar'e peaked high but dropped significantly (and mostly fairly quickly) with injuries. Baylor too (though my sense he was smooth in the air with good body control rather than a huge leaper).


So whilst he's more a fringe-y mention than a serious contender for first place, people can draw tier lines where they like etc I'd say the above pushback was a touch too dismissive. And others certainly have their warts. But your mileage may vary.

[Samurai]

Gus Johnson should receive a shout out. Probably the first player to break a backboard (during an exhibition game while with the Bullets) before Shaq was even born. Strong as a bull despite reportedly never lifting weights, his jumping ability was legendary. The Corner Club, a sports bar in Moscow, Idaho, established "the nail challenge" in 1963. While in the bar, Johnson (who played for the Idaho Vandals at that time), was challenged by the bar owner (Herm Goetz) to demonstrate his legendary jumping ability. From a standing start, Gus touched a spot on a beam measured to be 11 feet, 6 inches high. Goetz was so impressed that he hammered in a nail at that spot and offered free drinks to anyone who could touch the nail. He drew a circle on the floor where Gus stood and all contestants must start from within the circle to ensure no one cheated and got a running start. Many attempted the feat, including an attempt in 1984 by a 6'11" center named Bill Walton. Granted, this was after Walton's notorious foot injuries although Walton himself blamed his failure to touch the nail on "too much pizza and beer". The nail remained untouched until 1986 when a 6'3" guard named Joey Johnson (with a reported 48" vertical), not only touched the nail but bent it. After that, Goetz removed the nail and hammered it back in half an inch higher! When Gus Johnson passed away in 1987, flowers were found hanging from the nail.

Not saying he was the most athletic PF, but if we're looking at a combination of strength (he once grabbed a rebound, flung the ball down the court and it hit the opposite backboard on the fly), speed and of course, legendary hops, then Honeycomb should get at least a mention.

[DNice68]

Gus Johnson should receive a shout out. Probably the first player to break a backboard (during an exhibition game while with the Bullets) before Shaq was even born. Strong as a bull despite reportedly never lifting weights, his jumping ability was legendary. The Corner Club, a sports bar in Moscow, Idaho, established "the nail challenge" in 1963. While in the bar, Johnson (who played for the Idaho Vandals at that time), was challenged by the bar owner (Herm Goetz) to demonstrate his legendary jumping ability. From a standing start, Gus touched a spot on a beam measured to be 11 feet, 6 inches high. Goetz was so impressed that he hammered in a nail at that spot and offered free drinks to anyone who could touch the nail. He drew a circle on the floor where Gus stood and all contestants must start from within the circle to ensure no one cheated and got a running start. Many attempted the feat, including an attempt in 1984 by a 6'11" center named Bill Walton. Granted, this was after Walton's notorious foot injuries although Walton himself blamed his failure to touch the nail on "too much pizza and beer". The nail remained untouched until 1986 when a 6'3" guard named Joey Johnson (with a reported 48" vertical), not only touched the nail but bent it. After that, Goetz removed the nail and hammered it back in half an inch higher! When Gus Johnson passed away in 1987, flowers were found hanging from the nail.

Not saying he was the most athletic PF, but if we're looking at a combination of strength (he once grabbed a rebound, flung the ball down the court and it hit the opposite backboard on the fly), speed and of course, legendary hops, then Honeycomb should get at least a mention.

No Question!

[oaktownwarriors87]

Malone, Giannis or Griffin.

Depends on how you define athleticism.

[ronnymac2]

I'd go with Amar'e Stoudemire. Great balance on the ground and body control in the air. That's what athleticism in basketball is.

For PFs, he was all-time top-of-the-food-chain when it came to his first step and finishing over and through contact. Amar'e was to PF first steps as Michael Jordan was to shooting guard first steps. Amar'e was a very good leaper as well, though I think plenty of guys got higher than him with an unimpeded path to the hoop.

Shoutout to Stromile Swift. Crazy leaper with size. Terry Cummings is also a guy with crazy strength for a PF who could also move with decent agility and get off the ground quickly. Most PFs with his strength rep didn't move like him.

[migya]

The one thing Shawn Kemp was above almost everyone ever is athletic. The man was a freak and amazing to watch.

[HighFlyer23]

It’s Amare

He was a posterizing machine

[Heej]

Giannis' fluidity takes the cake here

[OdomFan]

Karl Malone. Very impressive through his athletic peak, and how he maintained being in great shape and being able to play at a high level well past that until the day he retired.

[Pipp33]

The term "athleticism" will be defined differently by many. I think most look at it from an exposive jumping ability, but there is much more too it IMO.

From an explosive jump point of view, Kemp, Zion, Amare, Blake are the first names that come to mind.

But when you look at an athlete like Malone , who didn't have the same hops, but his athleticism for his build was phenominal.

The way that Robinson and Hakeem moved for 7 footers was also extremely athletic, as with KG and Giannis in more recent times, with their agility, fluidity and speed.

[HighFlyer23]

Stromile Swift

That man was doing absurd things on the court

[LakerLegend]

Kemp and this guy are clearly more athletic than Giannis:

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[Ron Swanson]

Weird how there's so many people who still quantify athleticism entirely by how high you can jump. If that were the case I'd imagine you could easily make an argument (albeit a pretty dumb one) that Andrew Wiggins is a better athlete than peak Lebron. I think the poll speaks for itself this time, although I think there should have been some more options. Rookie year Zion and Mailman absolutely deserve honorable mentions. Rodman was a phenomenal athlete in his physical prime, but I maintain that he doesn't belong on lists like this. He wasn't a Mt. Rushmore tier athlete.