2000-2005 Kobe V 2014-2019 James Harden V 2006-2011 D-Wade

[Sign5]

That Pistons team was not the same as 2004. Ben Wallace was getting washed by than, and the rule changes made the 04 Pistons style defense impossible. Teams were scoring in the 60s and 70s against the 04 Pistons.

The 2004 Pistons were also a below average offense, while 2006 were a top 5 offense. Ben was DPOY that year and still made 2nd team defense the following season. He was nowhere near washed that year, not sure where you’re getting that from.

I don’t know why people like to assume the 06 Pistons were a paper tiger or something. They were a legit 60+ win team, coming off of 2 straight finals. If Wade wasn’t crazy hot shooting the ball, they probably win their 2nd title in 3 years.

That same Pistons team got dominated by a young LeBron the very next year, only for LeBron to be absolutely locked down and dominated by the Spurs after. 06/07 Pistons were paper tigers, and the rule changes after 04 made their defense no longer suffocating. If Wade went up against 04 Pistons in 2004 he’d likely be locked down too

What a major contradiction. Claims '07 were the same Pistons as '06 (when they weren't as they lost their DPOY) then claims '04 were in some totally different realm like they actually the Minnesota Timberwolves and not Detroit. The fact of matter is the Pistons were great from 04-06 and had a huge falloff afterwards. What doesn't get talked about is Wade dominating the '05 Pistons and it taking a rib injury for them to even advance to the finala. So Wade dominates them two years in a row but would somehow get clamped by their '04 form? Makes 0 sense.

Wade throughout his career has destroyed elite defenses, hell even in his rookie year he took an elite, stout, all time defensive squad in Indiana to 6 games. So it's comical to discredit him by saying the opposition was weak when the stats and eye test claim otherwise.

Same way Kobe fans approach '10 post season. You'll state how tough defensively the Celtics were to explain his inefficient series but ignore Wade's tremendous solo act averaging 33 7 and 6 on 56% shooting (as his 2nd option, a washed up Jermaine O'Neal had a historically poor series from a player his that had his number of FGA).

Somehow in the minds of Kobe fans only he is able to endure tough, uncomfortable situations and teams explaining his struggles. While if others flourished then well they just faced different versions of those same or very similar teams. Delusional.

[Asianiac_24]

Wade faced the 7th, 4th, 5th, and 11th ranked defenses in his Finals MVP run in 2006. Kobe faced the 9th, 7th, 1st, and 5th ranked defenses in 2001. If that's what you're hanging your hat on as the key difference, it's a stretch to say the least.

In the regular season, Kobe had a 24.5 PER on .552 TS%, .196 WS/48, and a 4.8 BPM with on/off of +8.8
In the regular season, Wade had a 27.6 PER on .577 TS%, .239 WS/48, and a 7.7 BPM with on/off of +15.2

In the postseason, Kobe had a 25.0 PER on .555 TS%, .260 WS/48, and a 6.5 BPM with on/off of +14.2
In the postseason, Wade had a 26.9 PER on .593 TS%, .240 WS/48, and a 9.3 BPM with on/off of +22.2

Wade had a 5.13 regular season RAPM from Gitlab and a 2.57 postseason RAPM. His combined RAPM from the 97-14 sample was 4.1.
Kobe had a 2.20 regular season RAPM from Gitlab and a 2.34 postseason RAPM. His combined RAPM from the 97-14 sample was 6.1.

Like you really have to be desperately looking for any criteria to support your position to come to the conclusion that Kobe was better in 2001 than Wade was in 2006. The numbers don't back it up at all.

First of all, early 2000s was the toughest era to score as a perimeter player. FT rate was much lower, scoring was lower, there were less spacing, and defense in general got away with more to perimeter players. 2006 was the year where all the perimeter star players had their scoring jump significantly. Kobe, Iverson, Arenas, LeBron, you name it. They all had great scoring seasons even for their respective standards. 2001 was not that.

Second of all, Kobe dominated the 2 best opponents, the Kings and the Spurs. The 06 Mavs defensively were not on their level, coupled that with the rule changes and the fact that Wade averaged 16 FTs a game which would be impossible in 2001, I fail to see how 06 Wade > 01 Kobe. 01 Kobe was better than Shaq against the 2 best opponents. At the very least they are equal. Kobe Bryant himself averaged over 40 against them in the season series.

Actually, the Kings only rated 7th in defense. The second best defensive team the '01 Lakers faced was the '76ers in the Finals. Against the Sixers, Kobe averaged 25 PPG on .501 TS%, the worst efficiency mark of any starter on the team. His shooting efficiency and his game score in the Finals were both much worse than Wade had in any series that playoffs.

When Kobe did finally face a defense that ranked worse than the '06 Mavericks in the playoffs the following year against Portland, he averaged 25 PPG on .483 TS%, shooting only 35% from the field. So much for your hypothetical of him averaging 40+.

2002 the following year was a down year for Kobe. That's like saying Wade sucked in 2011 because 2012 Wade wasn't good. The Spurs were the #1 defensive team in 2001, what happened to them? Please don't bring up the Sixers, there was no doubt in anyone's minds that they were so severely outmatched by the Lakers, that Kobe could have averaged 10 points and the Lakers would still have won. The Sixers was not a Finals level team in any measure. Dwyane Wade also averaged 24 points on .54 TS% in the first round against the Chicago Bulls. Dwyane Wade didn't only average 24 because he wasn't capable of more, it just wasn't needed. The Sixers that year was equivalent (or very arguably worse) than their first round opponent against the Blazers.

Kobe Bryant averaging 40+ against the Mavs in 2006 is not a hypothetical. He did that in the season series that year against the Mavericks, including a 62 point game where he sat out the entire fourth quarter and could have scored 80 if he played.

The point is, Wade has proven he can perform in the playoffs, and he did in 2006. But to act as if he was heads and shoulders above what Kobe did in 2001 is laughable. 2001 Kobe was arguably better than Shaq. If 2006 Wade was heads and shoulders above Kobe, he must also have been heads and shoulders above Shaq. I just don't see that, especially considering his 16 FTs a game and the fact that the 06 Mavs were getting lit up left and right by superstar wings.

[Asianiac_24]

The 2004 Pistons were also a below average offense, while 2006 were a top 5 offense. Ben was DPOY that year and still made 2nd team defense the following season. He was nowhere near washed that year, not sure where you’re getting that from.

I don’t know why people like to assume the 06 Pistons were a paper tiger or something. They were a legit 60+ win team, coming off of 2 straight finals. If Wade wasn’t crazy hot shooting the ball, they probably win their 2nd title in 3 years.

That same Pistons team got dominated by a young LeBron the very next year, only for LeBron to be absolutely locked down and dominated by the Spurs after. 06/07 Pistons were paper tigers, and the rule changes after 04 made their defense no longer suffocating. If Wade went up against 04 Pistons in 2004 he’d likely be locked down too

What a major contradiction. Claims '07 were the same Pistons as '06 (when they weren't as they lost their DPOY) then claims '04 were in some totally different realm like they actually the Minnesota Timberwolves and not Detroit. The fact of matter is the Pistons were great from 04-06 and had a huge falloff afterwards. What doesn't get talked about is Wade dominating the '05 Pistons and it taking a rib injury from them to even advance. So Wade dominates them two years in a row but would somehow get clamped by their '04 form? Makes 0 sense.

Wade throughout his career has destroyed elite defenses, hell even in his rookie year he took an elite, stout, all time defensive squad in Indiana to 6 games. So it's comical to discredit him by saying the opposition was weak when the stats and eye test claim otherwise.

Same way Kobe fans approach '10 post season. You'll state how tough defensively the Celtics were to explain his inefficient series but ignore Wade's tremendous solo act averaging 33 7 and 6 on 56% shooting (as his '2nd option' a washed up Jermaine O'Neal had a historically poor series from a player his that had his number of FGA).

Somehow in the minds of Kobe fans only he is able to endure tough, uncomfortable situations and teams explaining his struggles while if others flourished then well they just faced different versions of those same or very similar teams. Delusional.

You obviously didn't follow the NBA closely at all during 2004-2006. The NBA removed hand checking and made defending wings much harder to boost up scoring in 2005 because teams were scoring in the 70s, sometimes in the 60s. Even if you transported the exact same 2004 Pistons team to 2006, they would look a lot more differently.

2010 Wade was better than 2010 Kobe. I can admit that. You can also admit that litting up the 06 Mavs isn't an indicator that 06 Wade is somehow better than any version of Kobe, considering Kobe himself averaged 40+ that same year against them. The exact same team. Somehow that point keeps going over people's heads. It's not a hypothetical, it was a reality.