Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
Curry at 5 is overrated to me. Can’t see him being ahead of Tim Hardaway, Harden, Marbury, Oscar, IT, JCrossover or even Rubio.
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
falcolombardi wrote:HeartBreakKid wrote:Steph Curry is the most overrated ball handler of all time. He has always been highly turnover prone...
Curry is the ultimate test to see if people judge ball handling by how many times people do behind the back dribbles for no reason.
I think most of his turnovers are sloppy/careless passes tbh
Although i agree his handles, while good, are a bit overated at times. They are flashy but not nearly as quick and safe as those of a chris paul or kyrie. I think he wouldnt adapt as well to a era with tighter carrying rules as them although he would remain solid
they're from his handles like most guards who are turnover prone. His sloppy passes just make the highlights. He plays in high stake games so his errant passes are what stick to memory.
If he had tight handles he would not have high turnovers. He's very loose with the ball, I always see he makes "careless" passes yet it's never acknowledged his moves with the ball are also incredibly careless.
Curry picks up his dribble a lot compared to these guys and often times struggles crossing half court when he has a good defender on him (many times other guys will take it half court for him). Not to mention a lot of his bad passes come from not passing from a good position, the point of good handles from a PG is to get into a spot to make a safe and effective pass, they are naturally intertwined.
Curry should struggle making a top ten handler of his era, much less all time. Would someone who is really into basketball think there is a higher chance Curry gets to a deep spot on the court with the ball over a boring but more effective and athletic player like prime Mike Conley?
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Guys like Bogues, Nate Robinson, and Earl Boykins should get consideration for this list. These were very short men relative to their competition, and more men at their heights exist than the relatively lofty heights of PGs like Paul and Thomas. They had to be tremendously athletic and supremely skilled to gain one of the 400 most prestigious basketball jobs in the world.
For top-tier guys, Paul and Irving come to mind. Their handles are just so tight. They've got great TOV%, can do all the And-1 stuff, and can break down great defenders or bypass traps with slick but sound moves. Steve Nash was great as well.
For older guys who didn't have the same rules to play with, definitely Monroe and Maravich.
For top-tier guys, Paul and Irving come to mind. Their handles are just so tight. They've got great TOV%, can do all the And-1 stuff, and can break down great defenders or bypass traps with slick but sound moves. Steve Nash was great as well.
For older guys who didn't have the same rules to play with, definitely Monroe and Maravich.
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
MyUniBroDavis wrote:falcolombardi wrote:HeartBreakKid wrote:Steph Curry is the most overrated ball handler of all time. He has always been highly turnover prone...
Curry is the ultimate test to see if people judge ball handling by how many times people do behind the back dribbles for no reason.
I think most of his turnovers are sloppy/careless passes tbh
Although i agree his handles, while good, are a bit overated at times. They are flashy but not nearly as quick and safe as those of a chris paul or kyrie. I think he wouldnt adapt as well to a era with tighter carrying rules as them although he would remain solid
Yeah Curry doesn’t lose the ball or get it stolen as much as he does some stupid pass cuz he’s trying to flex
The thing with Curry is his handles are really reliant on him selling he’s gonna pull up vs selling the drive or selling he’s going one way, so they look different from guys like Kyrie or harden where the first threat is to drive (and even harden people play for the step back).
If Curry was a guy whose first option was to drive he probably gets a looser handle and gets his shoulder lower on his sells
I don’t agree that he doesn’t translate well ball handling wise if you put him back to times with carrying rules, his handles are tighter so he’s not gonna be as limited outside of the Curry slide, but in any case ball handlers today are so much better than ball handlers when palming was super enforced for the most part that it’s not really a comparison
KD-less Curry averages around 60 lost ball turnovers per season (and even then, he has less of a handling role than other guards).
Heavily on-ball, elite ballhandlers like Paul or Rubio average around 60-75% of that, adjusting for minutes, while handling more the ball than Steph. GOAT Mookie Blaylock averaged 40% of that (with less playmaking load) from the data we have.
Curry averages at the same rate than Irving, but Irving abuses his handles as a weapon way more than Curry (obvious via eyetest, plus he has +25% time per touch). Does Curry create advantages from his ball skills, like Irving does, outside of some highlight plays? Ehhhhh.
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
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Re: Top 10 Ball Handlers of All Time
Jaivl wrote:MyUniBroDavis wrote:falcolombardi wrote:
I think most of his turnovers are sloppy/careless passes tbh
Although i agree his handles, while good, are a bit overated at times. They are flashy but not nearly as quick and safe as those of a chris paul or kyrie. I think he wouldnt adapt as well to a era with tighter carrying rules as them although he would remain solid
Yeah Curry doesn’t lose the ball or get it stolen as much as he does some stupid pass cuz he’s trying to flex
The thing with Curry is his handles are really reliant on him selling he’s gonna pull up vs selling the drive or selling he’s going one way, so they look different from guys like Kyrie or harden where the first threat is to drive (and even harden people play for the step back).
If Curry was a guy whose first option was to drive he probably gets a looser handle and gets his shoulder lower on his sells
I don’t agree that he doesn’t translate well ball handling wise if you put him back to times with carrying rules, his handles are tighter so he’s not gonna be as limited outside of the Curry slide, but in any case ball handlers today are so much better than ball handlers when palming was super enforced for the most part that it’s not really a comparison
KD-less Curry averages around 60 lost ball turnovers per season (and even then, he has less of a handling role than other guards).
Heavily on-ball, elite ballhandlers like Paul or Rubio average around 60-75% of that, adjusting for minutes, while handling more the ball than Steph. GOAT Mookie Blaylock averaged 40% of that (with less playmaking load) from the data we have.
Curry averages at the same rate than Irving, but Irving abuses his handles as a weapon way more than Curry (obvious via eyetest, plus he has +25% time per touch). Does Curry create advantages from his ball skills, like Irving does, outside of some highlight plays? Ehhhhh.
You’re gonna be using your handles mostly in isolation and in the pick and roll, obviously there are other things as well but the majority is gonna be that for a guard, and while these possessions were down during the KD era it’s not as if he wasn’t doing them a decent amount still, even if it didn’t compare to a guy like Kyrie. Obv because teams are auto blitzing even in the RS for him they aren’t recorded as much but still, even with durant
He has as many live ball turnovers as most high scoring point guards in the nba, and I think for obvious reasons the guys you don’t give any space to and you bave to use aggressive screen coverages in the pick and roll even in the RS is gonna turn it over more than the average scoring pg in live ball situations
In any case I don’t think currys the poster boy for ball security at all but I don’t think that Curry averaged 0.7 live ball turnovers a game vs 0.5 for Paul who stands out in ball security in terms of ball handling scoring point guards isn’t that big of a deal to me lol. Currys average in that regard, but if live ball turnovers + role were the only thing we’d get something insane like lillard has better handles than Curry lol
In any case, currys always been an incredible pick and roll player that’s great at breaking defenders down on a switch or in general in isolation, even if he doesn’t get in those situations as much he’s always been very effective. It’s more than his handles he’s the GOAT shooter by a country mile but it’s obviously a key part of that.
I do think he’s reliant on selling his shot because he’s really not explosive at all and when that doesn’t work (obv it’s not just a threat he can just pull up) it looks dumb sometimes but he’s always been great