Which team is better? Knicks vs. Nuggets

[Tim Lehrbach]

Knicks
Walt Frazier
Michael Ray Richardson
Bernard King
Charles Oakley
Patrick Ewing
Bench Rotation: Mark Jackson, Dick Van Arsdale, David Lee

Nuggets
Fat Lever
David Thompson
Alex English
Bobby Jones
Dikembe Mutombo
Bench Rotation: Larry Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe, Calvin Natt

All players are peak version, whether or not that occurred with the Knicks/Nuggets. Teams are transported to contemporary times and have an offseason to prepare.

Are the backcourts evenly matched? How about the frontcourts? Do the benches make any difference here? Which team wins head-to-head? Overall, which team is better?

Bonus question: how do these teams fare in 2017? Every one of these players was an NBA or ABA all-star, but do they beat Golden State and Cleveland?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Peak Bernard King can destroy a defense by himself.
Knicks are better.

There is nothing that Bobby Jones or Kawhi Leonard or anybody can do to guard 1984 playoff version Bernard King.
And on top of that you are going to give Bernard King decent teammates? No that is not fair.

I don't think Dick Van Ardsdale will be getting off that bench.
No Problem. They can go with 7 men.David Lee is OK and can play center if he has to. I would cut Van Ardsdale and repkace him with Willis Reed or Bill Cartwrght.

Michael Ray Richardson can swing up to small forwards and play with Jackson and Frazier so that King only has to play 36 minutes a game.

I would cut Van Ardsdale for Sprewell.
I would cut David Lee for willis Reed. Willis reed could also play power forward. I do like David Lee.

Both teams would beat any real current team for the championship despite their inability to shoot 3s.

At least I know Van Ardsdale's name and have seen him on video once. Who is Larry Jones? Looked him up. Scored 28 points a game for the 1969 ABA Nuggets. A 6' 2" guard. Even with 28 points a game I don't trust 1969 ABA stars. Michael Adams might be better. Michael Adams scored 26 points a game and had 10 assists and 2 steals for the 1991 Nuggets and he shot 3s. He did not hit 3s very well but but he shot a bunch of them. I loved Adams at Boston college. He was very quick and hard to stay in front of.

2017 Warriors are my home team. Your Knicks team will beat them. The Dever team probably goes 7 games with those Warriors but might lose. The modern 3 point shooting is quite an advantage that the old timers must overcome. David Thopson is quite something but he does not score with the efficiency of 1984 playoff Bernard Kings. You have to be extremely efficient with those 2s to beat 3 point shooting. Ale English and Kiki are weak defenders.

David Thompson had is Fg% way up there for a 3 game playoff series vs the Lakers. But King played 12 playoff games, enough for me to call that his peak. The 40 regular season games before the 84 playoffs and the 40 regular season after the 1984 playoffs were also impressive if 12 playoff games is too short for a peak.

[penbeast0]

Heck, if you cut Bernard King or replaced him with Spree, I still favor the Knicks. The best two players out there are Ewing and Frazier much as I love Bobby Jones (and yes, I'd take Denver Bobby Jones over Bernard King for a full season easily, maybe not if you can guarantee that those 12 postseason games in that one season are a legit level for King; that would at least be close).

Dick Van Arsdale for the Knicks plays ahead of Mark Jackson easily, better shooter, better defender, not the playmaker but when you already have Richardson and Frazier, you don't need a 3rd point guard as much, so if you cut someone, it would be Jackson. I'd probably have Allen Houston ahead of Sprewell as well as a guard.

As for the Nuggets, Fat is one of my favorite players but he wasn't Walt Frazier. English was more versatile and overall better than King but not by enough to make up for Ewing's edge over Mutombo, David Thompson is more one dimensional but a great scorer and probably better than Michael Ray Richardson in those respective offenses before the two of them get hooked on product. Jones is better than Oakley but again, not by enough to make up for NY having the two best players on the floor. Then the bench comes in and Denver's is weak. Natt was a good player, but Vandeweghe a one dimensional shooter; go with peak McGinnis from Indiana, Larry Jones was good in a weak league but even then not great (Mack Calvin was better from ABA; peak Michael Adams better from NBA). Still can't make up for New York's top end.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Heck, if you cut Bernard King or replaced him with Spree, I still favor the Knicks. The best two players out there are Ewing and Frazier much as I love Bobby Jones (and yes, I'd take Denver Bobby Jones over Bernard King for a full season easily, maybe not if you can guarantee that those 12 postseason games in that one season are a legit level for King; that would at least be close).

Dick Van Arsdale for the Knicks plays ahead of Mark Jackson easily, better shooter, better defender, not the playmaker but when you already have Richardson and Frazier, you don't need a 3rd point guard as much, so if you cut someone, it would be Jackson. I'd probably have Allen Houston ahead of Sprewell as well as a guard.

As for the Nuggets, Fat is one of my favorite players but he wasn't Walt Frazier. English was more versatile and overall better than King but not by enough to make up for Ewing's edge over Mutombo, David Thompson is more one dimensional but a great scorer and probably better than Michael Ray Richardson in those respective offenses before the two of them get hooked on product. Jones is better than Oakley but again, not by enough to make up for NY having the two best players on the floor. Then the bench comes in and Denver's is weak. Natt was a good player, but Vandeweghe a one dimensional shooter; go with peak McGinnis from Indiana, Larry Jones was good in a weak league but even then not great (Mack Calvin was better from ABA; peak Michael Adams better from NBA). Still can't make up for New York's top end.

I haven't seen Alex English's best game. I was not a big fan of English.

12 playoffs may be to short for a peak but the years before and after were good if you average regular season with playoff.
OP did say peak. Not liking King's attitude some other year and hos lack of defense some other time isn't a reason to pretend the 1984 playoffs did not happen. King's defense was not worse than mediocre in the 1984 playoffs. Good lord the offense. You can make fun of me, but I am right.

King's 1984 playoffs 12 games is a a higher level than the best 12 game streak of Frazier, Ewing, Alex English, Bobby Jones and David Thompson. Now I have not checked them for 12 game streaks. But damn was King on fire, hard for anybody to touch that. The guy with the best shot of having a 12 game streak as good as King is David Thompson.

I don't know what kind of bad bernard King defense you have seen that made your eyes bleed and had you screaming in horror but i did not think Alex English played defense and you think he is fine. Go figure.

And get Bullets Bernard King out of your head. That is a whole different animal.
Like Michael Jordan in a groove 1984 playoffs Bernard King can not be guarded.

Dont tell me the saint anointed one, hero of the entire Empire State ever had 12 games in a row as good as 1984 Playoff Bernard. I don't care how good Walt's defense waa, Walt never had a playoff season as good as Bernard's playoff season. Walt had might fine playoff seasons but was not even in the same class as Bernard. You want somebody in Bernards's class you only have MJ and LeBron to chose from and I am not even sure about LeBron.

Watch the 1984 playoffs again. You forgot.

Actually there are a lot of guys with some pretty great numbers for 3 playoff game playoff seasons so I require 8 games to compare with Berard.

[penbeast0]

Walt carried his team to a title with Willis Reed injured in 73, improving all his stats in the playoffs. He wasn't the pure scorer King was but in a less efficient NBA he still went for 21.9/7.3reb (as a PG), 6.2 ast on .514 from the field while holding Jerry West to below regular season averages on points, rebounds, assists, and efficiency in the finals. Pretty impressive run and I've always been a sucker for great defenders.

English outscored anyone else during the 80s including Bird, Magic, Kareem, Nique, everyone while consistently shooting above league average efficiency. He didn't have the great peak season but was really consistent every year despite changing roles from the main outside shooter to the main inside threat (with Issel and Vandeweghe), to point forward, and was an average or better defender during that era (not great) while most of the other great scoring SFs of the era were dinged by their coaches or commentators for their effort. He also won multiple citizenship awards (Nique was also apparently a terrific person and teammate but didn't have the scoring efficiency of English, King, and Dantley).