Better overall player - Adrian Dantley or Paul George

[ceoofkobefans]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

[70sFan]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

[penbeast0]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

And George isn't a good one, just sort of average.

[prolific passer]

Dantley was what? 6'5" and playing in the 80s? Going up against 6'7"+ guys. He was the size of the average small forward in the 50s and 60s. Would have been something to see prime Dantley going up against the likes of Baylor, Hondo, and Cliff Hagan.

[kcktiny]

Lot of video here of Adrian Dantley scoring inside against much taller players:

Watch on YouTube

[ceoofkobefans]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

He rarely ever passed and if he did pass it was likely to a contested man. I don’t see how he was a good passer

[ceoofkobefans]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

And George isn't a good one, just sort of average.

Nah I’d say he’s an above average to good passer at his peak and especially in LAC

[70sFan]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

He rarely ever passed and if he did pass it was likely to a contested man. I don’t see how he was a good passer

What's the basis of this idea?

[tsherkin]

Paul George is a good passer Dantley is a bad passer

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

He rarely ever passed and if he did pass it was likely to a contested man. I don’t see how he was a good passer

He was a finisher. He wasn't involved in tons and tons of sets where he should have been moving the ball, but he gave the ball up well enough. Watch him long enough and you'll see him freely moving the ball around up top, in/out, passing to get to a cut to get a repost, etc, etc. He wasn't some savant passer in the post like a Magic/Bird or Lebron, but he certainly wasn't a BAD passer.

[tsherkin]

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

And George isn't a good one, just sort of average.

Nah I’d say he’s an above average to good passer at his peak and especially in LAC

You're referring presumably to his last two seasons because of his raw APG, yes?

[Colbinii]

Dantley wasn't a bad passer.

He rarely ever passed and if he did pass it was likely to a contested man. I don’t see how he was a good passer

What's the basis of this idea?

Ben Taylor

[70sFan]

He rarely ever passed and if he did pass it was likely to a contested man. I don’t see how he was a good passer

What's the basis of this idea?

Ben Taylor

Yeah, looks like that.

Even in the last podcast, Ben mentioned Dantley and talked about his Pistons style in context of his Utah years. It seems that Ben didn't see a lot of 1978-79 Lakers and 1980-86 Jazz games and just projects Pistons Dantley weaknesses to his whole career.

I think we need a bit more nuanced discussion about Dantley work in Utah.

[trelos6]

I’m taking PG, more for his portability and all round game.

Dantley was a negative defender his whole career.

Pacers PG was a great defender, and then 2018-19 puts PG over the top. IMO, it’s a top 50 peak. Strong offensively, good defensively.

Total Career value still goes to Dantley at this stage. He had some pretty good longevity, and a solid 7 year Utah stretch with some elite scoring numbers.

[tsherkin]

I’m taking PG, more for his portability and all round game.

Dantley was a negative defender his whole career.

Pacers PG was a great defender, and then 2018-19 puts PG over the top. IMO, it’s a top 50 peak. Strong offensively, good defensively.

"Strong offensively" is probably a bit of a stretch, outside of maybe 2019. He was pretty tepid on O. He peaks at like a 3.7 AuPM guy, OBPM doesn't like him, etc etc, etc. Offensive impact isn't really his jam. Defense is there, for sure, but offensive impact isn't really his forte at all. Calling him "decent," sure, but "strong" is a reach.

[trelos6]

I’m taking PG, more for his portability and all round game.

Dantley was a negative defender his whole career.

Pacers PG was a great defender, and then 2018-19 puts PG over the top. IMO, it’s a top 50 peak. Strong offensively, good defensively.

"Strong offensively" is probably a bit of a stretch, outside of maybe 2019. He was pretty tepid on O. He peaks at like a 3.7 AuPM guy, OBPM doesn't like him, etc etc, etc. Offensive impact isn't really his jam. Defense is there, for sure, but offensive impact isn't really his forte at all. Calling him "decent," sure, but "strong" is a reach.

O-PIPM has PG 18-19 at +3.9. Dantley peaks at +4.9 and has 4 seasons above 3.9.

OWS is at 7.0 and OBPM 5.6. Dantley peaked at 13 OWS and 9 seasons above 7, with a OBPM of 6.0 and 5 seasons above 5.6.

PG also finished 3rd in NBA voting that season. I’d say he was strong offensively.

[tsherkin]

I’m taking PG, more for his portability and all round game.

Dantley was a negative defender his whole career.

Pacers PG was a great defender, and then 2018-19 puts PG over the top. IMO, it’s a top 50 peak. Strong offensively, good defensively.

"Strong offensively" is probably a bit of a stretch, outside of maybe 2019. He was pretty tepid on O. He peaks at like a 3.7 AuPM guy, OBPM doesn't like him, etc etc, etc. Offensive impact isn't really his jam. Defense is there, for sure, but offensive impact isn't really his forte at all. Calling him "decent," sure, but "strong" is a reach.

O-PIPM has PG 18-19 at +3.9. Dantley peaks at +4.9 and has 4 seasons above 3.9.

OWS is at 7.0 and OBPM 5.6. Dantley peaked at 13 OWS and 9 seasons above 7, with a OBPM of 6.0 and 5 seasons above 5.6.

PG also finished 3rd in NBA voting that season. I’d say he was strong offensively.

Maybe we're just having a semantic war here. George was obviously a talented guy who was more than net-neutral. At his single-season peak, sure, you can argue he gets into strong territory. However, if we're to lean OBPM for example, he was a +5 player or better only once. He's a +2.8 player on his career who has managed >= +3 in five seasons and +4 or better only the once. This thread isn't about single-season peak, so I stand by my characterization of him being "good" but not "strong" outside of 2019.

[Bomb81]

Dantley.