Gobert's all-time defensive ranking among centers?

uberhikari · Post #1 » by **uberhikari** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:04 pm

About 4 years ago there was a project that ranked the top 10 defensive players by position. The list for centers was:

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Nate Thurmond
7. Ben Wallace
8. Patrick Ewing
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
10. Mark Eaton

I think he can be placed anywhere between 7th and 5th. I would say he's probably 5th right above Wilt. As of right now where does Gobert belong on this list of the top 10 defensive centers of all-time?

No-more-rings · Post #2 » by **No-more-rings** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:21 pm

I’d say top 20ish all time without thinking real hard on it.

uberhikari · Post #3 » by **uberhikari** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:24 pm

No-more-rings wrote:I’d say top 20ish all time without thinking real hard on it.

Are you saying that all-time amongst centers Gobert is top 20ish?

No-more-rings · Post #4 » by **No-more-rings** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:37 pm

uberhikari wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I’d say top 20ish all time without thinking real hard on it.

Are you saying that all-time amongst centers Gobert is top 20ish?

I mean overall. Didn’t notice it said among centers.

Not sure the answer changes significantly though, since probably only KG and Draymond are non-centers in that group.

Maybe he’s top 15.

I’d take these guys for sure:

Russell
Hakeem
Duncan
Mutumbo
Drob
Wilt
Ewing
Ben Wallace
Thurmond

I think he’s interesting vs some like Dwight, Kareem, Zo, Mark Eaton etc.

Placing him over Wilt, Ewing, Thurmond and Ben Wallace seems generous.

Walton doesn’t have enough longevity, and won’t rank Mikan.

Interesting discussion though.

SkyHookFTW · Post #5 » by **SkyHookFTW** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:42 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
uberhikari wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I’d say top 20ish all time without thinking real hard on it.

Are you saying that all-time amongst centers Gobert is top 20ish?

I mean overall. Didn’t notice it said among centers.

Not sure the answer changes significantly though, since probably only KG and Draymond are non-centers in that group.

Maybe he’s top 15.

I’d take these guys for sure:

Russell
Hakeem
Duncan
Mutumbo
Drob
Wilt
Ewing
Ben Wallace
Thurmond

I think he’s interesting vs some like Dwight, Kareem, Zo, Mark Eaton etc.

Placing him over Wilt, Ewing, Thurmond and Ben Wallace seems generous.

Walton doesn’t have enough longevity, and won’t rank Mikan.

Interesting discussion though.

I can't put him over any player you listed.

70sFan · Post #6 » by **70sFan** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:21 pm

He's a lock top 15, probably top 10 or close to it. I wouldn't have him close to top 5 though.

ty 4191 · Post #7 » by **ty 4191** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:28 pm

70sFan wrote:He's a lock top 15, probably top 10 or close to it. I wouldn't have him close to top 5 though.

Who are your top 10 defensive centers, in order?

70sFan · Post #8 » by **70sFan** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:47 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
70sFan wrote:He's a lock top 15, probably top 10 or close to it. I wouldn't have him close to top 5 though.

Who are your top 10 defensive centers, in order?

Something like this for peaks:

Russell
Hakeem
Mutombo
Duncan
Robinson
Thurmond
Wilt
Walton
Ewing
Wallace

HM: Kareem, Eaton, Dwight, Gilmore, Gobert

Post #9 » by **Doctor MJ** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:29 am

uberhikari wrote:About 4 years ago there was a project that ranked the top 10 defensive players by position. The list for centers was:

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Nate Thurmond
7. Ben Wallace
8. Patrick Ewing
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
10. Mark Eaton

I think he can be placed anywhere between 7th and 5th. I would say he's probably 5th right above Wilt. As of right now where does Gobert belong on this list of the top 10 defensive centers of all-time?

So, this is a really, really hard thing for me to do based on actual play because it's directly related to how the game has changed in the pace & space era.

Mark Eaton may well be the best defender in the history of the game for defending against '80s era NBA players, but would not have an NBA career today. What do we do with that?

I can pretty safely side with Russell as my guy here and point to him having the most impactful peak in his ear, and being of a build that could thrive in today's game as well, but making a longer list is tougher.

Something I can do though is share how the top centers come out in my DPOY shares, though I'll say up front, it's not going to look good for Gobert. I don't say this gleefully - I think the way people seem to want to blame Gobert for everything wrong that happens on his team's defense is frankly pretty nasty, and I also think that the issues Gobert has now are issues that would effect bigs in general today.

However, the DPOY shares are about being the top defensive player in practice in any given year, and Gobert happens to be playing at a time where centers don't dominate this. Without further ado, my Top 10 centers by this metric:

1. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. George Mikan
(tie) Hakeem Olajuwon
5. David Robinson
6. Mark Eaton
7. Nate Thurmond
8. Leroy Edwards
9. Patrick Ewing
(tie) Dikembe Mutombo
(tie) Ben Wallace

You'll note Gobert's not there, and I haven't even gotten to guys like Kareem & Gilmore who are also ahead of Gobert on this list.

So Rudy's in a tough spot. While I can completely understand someone putting Gobert on their Mount Rushmore of defensive centers by looking at what he can do compared to bigs in history who have dominated their era defensively, the reality for me is that if I construct a list based on such era domination, it yields something that quite looks like a "Defensive Center GOAT List" for players up to a certain era...but then feels like it falls apart when the paradigm shift comes.