Nikola Jokic vs Larry Bird

[70sFan]

Are we talking NBA, late stage only Sabonis?

Sabonis wasn't a better shooter or passer when he was younger.

[therealbig3]

I can ask you the same thing - how much have you watched Jokic recently?

I seriously wonder how many who say Lebron James has passed Michael Jordan all-time actually watched Jordan over his entire career.

Seems to be a common refrain whenever anyone dares mention an ‘80s/‘90s great.

It’s a valid point when people start talking about how obviously superior a today player is over a top 10 GOAT. There are great players today, none of them are so many steps ahead of the GOAT’s that it’s just obvious.

Yeah but there’s two problems with that:

1. It’s assuming that people, with how easy it is to look up old footage nowadays, haven’t seen Bird play, or any other previous great player. This is a huge assumption that’s probably false, since we’re all avid basketball fans and would want to see one of the greats. And it’s not like we’re talking about the ice age here, Bird played during a time when the NBA started being nationally televised, so a lot of his old games are readily available.

The only way I see this point being relevant is if “you had to be there” actually mattered. But in reality, that’s just a way to insert nostalgia and bias into an objective evaluation. Being able to evaluate a player without bias is actually a good thing, and so going back and reviewing things without being in the moment is probably a better evaluation.

2. It’s a huge double standard. Given how much less footage there is of Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West, etc. compared to Bird, Magic, and especially Jordan, I’d say the same people accusing younger fans of never seeing Bird, Magic, and Jordan play are more guilty themselves of not watching previous greats play. I’d say today’s fans have seen more of 80s and 90s greats than 80s and 90s fans have seen of 60s and 70s greats.

And yet, it doesn’t stop most 80s and 90s fans from boldly proclaiming their eras and players as the best.

[falcolombardi]

Seems to be a common refrain whenever anyone dares mention an ‘80s/‘90s great.

"You cannot talk objectively about a player if you didnt grow up watching him" is a very weird way to look at thinghs

Because someone who did so will be biased by his impressions as a young fan and the general thinking of the time

That works both ways.

Sure, everyone can be subject to different sorts of bias.

No such thingh as a perfectly unbiased analysis is somethingh to keep in mind