Peak D-Rob vs Joel Embiid

[therealbig3]

Robinson is on the short list of greatest defensive players ever. Definitely better than Embiid. But Embiid is much better offensively. Robinson had very famous playoff struggles, and it’s because I don’t think he had a great skillset to be the 1st option on offense. Meanwhile, Embiid really does remind me of Hakeem offensively, he’s got fantastic footwork and counters for days, and can score from literally anywhere. Can handle the ball and create off the dribble, can take you inside and post you up, and he’s a great shooter out to the 3pt line and can just take the shot over you if you give him enough space.

It’s a close call. I’d probably lean D-Rob, but Embiid is a good choice too. Neither one is a slouch at the thing the other one is great at (Embiid on defense, Robinson on offense).

[IdolW0rm]

Robinson is more mobile than Gobert though (and Embiid) and he's a better passer than all bigs mentioned besides Jokic and Giannis.

More like a different universe of mobility. Even post 2000 Robinson was more mobile than Gobert, let alone his pre-injuries version. The Rudy comparison to exemplify how DRobs mobility (or lack of) would hurt him today doesn't really make much sense to me.

I don't think Robinson was ever a "mobility monster", but he was more nimble and explosive than Gobert. At least for me, there is no reason to question that.

Yes, definitely never a mobility monster. But you don't need to be that to be much more mobile than Gobert.

[colts18]

30 years ago the rockets were an all-time shooting outlier giving hakeem and co a big big advantage over the rest of the league. Passing windows were also much bigger limiting the effect of being a limited passer.

"spacing -> ppg go up" does not actually mean it's "easier". Robinson is not all that mobile(see: playoff Gobert) and he has a big weakness as a playmaker. He's not getting "better today", and neither would Hakeem.

Also not sure what your list is for. Giannis, Embid, Jokic, and AD are collectively harder to guard, with everyone but embid being especially bad for D-rob. even KAT would be a nightmare matchup.

Robinson doesn't really have unique strengths relative to contemporary bigs besides his rim presence at the rim which we know doesn't translate as well, and he's entering a much better league.

No idea how people are arriving at "best player". He might theoretically do better as a secondary piece offensively(better guard-play) but the standard for top-tier two way-bigs is to be the best offensive and defensive player on their team.

Robinson is more mobile than Gobert though (and Embiid) and he's a better passer than all bigs mentioned besides Jokic and Giannis.

Comparing David Robinson with Gobert in terms of Mobility is . Robinson is so much more mobile and athletic that he is 2 tiers ahead of Gobert. Rudy has never moved like this in the open court.

Watch on YouTube

At the Combine, Gobert had the 2nd slowest Lane Agility time, 2nd lowest 3 quarter sprint, and the lowest Max Vertical Leap.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?dir=D&sort=LANE_AGILITY_TIME

[penbeast0]

Robinson was a better regular season player than Hakeem on both ends; Hakeem was just a unique cat who elevated his value in the postseason. That is not Embiid. Embiid drops both in efficiency (20 pts of ts%), rebound rate (a little), assist rate (a lot), and scoring volume (10-20%). Those look a lot more like Robinson's postseason splits than Hakeems relative to regular season.

[capfan33]

I think Robinson on average in today's game is extremely valuable because of the wealth of perimeter talent in the game. Robinson's big weakness in terms of postseason scoring and being the primary option are mitigated to a large extent, and there aren't many elite big defenders like him that aren't easily exploitable in the playoffs.

Throw in health, and I actually think I prefer Robinson compared to Embiid from a CORP perspective. If Embiid can stay healthy and string together a long run I might lean toward him but we shall see.

[magicman1978]

This is a red herring. I don't care if it's easier for centers to be the first option. The point I'm addressing is whether or not it's easier for skilled centers to score. This question of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd options is an irrelevant distraction from the heart of the conversation.

The amount of space combined with the optimization of offenses makes it much easier to score as a skilled big man than ever before. 30 years ago the Rockets recognized that 3pt shooting was the best way to optimize Hakeem on offense. Can you imagine what Hakeem would be in this era? Think about the best defenders at either PF or C in the last decade. Now imagine them trying to guard Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc on an island in 2023. That's BBQ chicken all day.

30 years ago the rockets were an all-time shooting outlier giving hakeem and co a big big advantage over the rest of the league. Passing windows were also much bigger limiting the effect of being a limited passer.

"spacing -> ppg go up" does not actually mean it's "easier". Robinson is not all that mobile(see: playoff Gobert) and he has a big weakness as a playmaker. He's not getting "better today", and neither would Hakeem.

Also not sure what your list is for. Giannis, Embid, Jokic, and AD are collectively harder to guard, with everyone but embid being especially bad for D-rob. even KAT would be a nightmare matchup.

Robinson doesn't really have unique strengths relative to contemporary bigs besides his rim presence at the rim which we know doesn't translate as well, and he's entering a much better league.

No idea how people are arriving at "best player". He might theoretically do better as a secondary piece offensively(better guard-play) but the standard for top-tier two way-bigs is to be the best offensive and defensive player on their team.

Robinson is more mobile than Gobert though (and Embiid) and he's a better passer than all bigs mentioned besides Jokic and Giannis.

Yup, and Gobert had to work on his lateral mobility significantly to get to where he is now. He was terrible coming into the league. That's something Robinson would work on today as well - there shouldn't be any concern about his mobility in this era.

[Blame Rasho]

Robinson is not all that mobile

Is among the most absurd things I have read.

Just stop posting and have enough dignity to walk away and don’t bother to defend yourself.