Steve Nash vs. Giannis Antetokounmpo

[DCasey91]

Giannis has one of the most underwhelming impact profile (offensively) compared to his boxscore production. At times, I think if he's really better than second tier offensive bigs like Hakeem or Duncan.

Agree but I would put Duncan ahead as he’s shown a capacity to be more of a skilful central offensive player. He’s just a smarter basketball player would be dead easy today as well to build around

Giannis/Hakeem is actually a fair comp imo. Hakeem a better shooter all around, Giannis better passer/better with ball in hand.

With Duncan he’s a better shooter and passer and it’s not close to me.

[migya]

Quite nonsensical how a relatively low volume scorer can be seen as on the level offensively as a very good scorer, particularly when the scorer passes quite well also and efficiencies are both very good. If it was offense only, Giannis has a case over Nash but add the defense and it's no comparison.

Nash’s creation for others is on a different level. You do realize that’s a big part of offensive value right?

Btw, Nash could’ve scored more if he wanted/needed. Why would he need to if his teams were already the best in the league on offense?

That doesn't make him better offensively and certainly doesn't make him the better player. I also don't think Nash couldv'e scored much more. He wasn't fast or physically great in anyway. He wasn't a Curry type in getting his shot off either.

[No-more-rings]

Quite nonsensical how a relatively low volume scorer can be seen as on the level offensively as a very good scorer, particularly when the scorer passes quite well also and efficiencies are both very good. If it was offense only, Giannis has a case over Nash but add the defense and it's no comparison.

Nash’s creation for others is on a different level. You do realize that’s a big part of offensive value right?

Btw, Nash could’ve scored more if he wanted/needed. Why would he need to if his teams were already the best in the league on offense?

That doesn't make him better offensively and certainly doesn't make him the better player. I also don't think Nash couldv'e scored much more. He wasn't fast or physically great in anyway. He wasn't a Curry type in getting his shot off either.

Well then maybe you should take a look at what Nash did vs the Mavs in 2005. Nash was a crazy good shooter. He wasn’t Curry level as an all around scorer, then again neither is Giannis.

Nash was plenty capable of creating his own shots and at an efficient level. Just because he wasn’t 6’10 and didn’t drive to the basket like a crazy man every play doesn’t mean he was worse offensively than Giannis lol.

[DCasey91]

Quite nonsensical how a relatively low volume scorer can be seen as on the level offensively as a very good scorer, particularly when the scorer passes quite well also and efficiencies are both very good. If it was offense only, Giannis has a case over Nash but add the defense and it's no comparison.

Because there’s way more to offence than scoring. Nash for about 5 years in the Post Season was an and still an all time offensive juggernaut.

Magic for example QBed extremely effective offences despite being only a 20ppg scorer

Scoring resiliency is far more important imo. Nash is an incredible playmaker, and that alone gives you a huge base of offensive scaling. He has a very sound case to be a top 5 playmaker and shooter of all time.

I don’t think Giannis is anywhere near the offensive player Nash is. But he’s great defender, high volume scorer, demigod physicals and a motor that runs all day that puts him over the top by a distance.

[migya]

Nash’s creation for others is on a different level. You do realize that’s a big part of offensive value right?

Btw, Nash could’ve scored more if he wanted/needed. Why would he need to if his teams were already the best in the league on offense?

That doesn't make him better offensively and certainly doesn't make him the better player. I also don't think Nash couldv'e scored much more. He wasn't fast or physically great in anyway. He wasn't a Curry type in getting his shot off either.

Well then maybe you should take a look at what Nash did vs the Mavs in 2005. Nash was a crazy good shooter. He wasn’t Curry level as an all around scorer, then again neither is Giannis.

Nash was plenty capable of creating his own shots and at an efficient level. Just because he wasn’t 6’10 and didn’t drive to the basket like a crazy man every play doesn’t mean he was worse offensively than Giannis lol.

Nash just wasn't able to score alot often, easy to see watching him his career.

[migya]

Quite nonsensical how a relatively low volume scorer can be seen as on the level offensively as a very good scorer, particularly when the scorer passes quite well also and efficiencies are both very good. If it was offense only, Giannis has a case over Nash but add the defense and it's no comparison.

Because there’s way more to offence than scoring. Nash for about 5 years in the Post Season was an and still an all time offensive juggernaut.

Magic for example QBed extremely effective offences despite being only a 20ppg scorer

Scoring resiliency is far more important imo. Nash is an incredible playmaker, and that alone gives you a huge base of offensive scaling. He has a very sound case to be a top 5 playmaker and shooter of all time.

I don’t think Giannis is anywhere near the offensive player Nash is. But he’s great defender, high volume scorer, demigod physicals and a motor that runs all day that puts him over the top by a distance.

He's a great playmaker, no argument, but where he rates alltime not so clear. Kevin Johnson was a great playmaker that soley ran his team to among the best offenses in the late 80s, early 90s, with great efficiency and one of the best to break down defenses.

[No-more-rings]

That doesn't make him better offensively and certainly doesn't make him the better player. I also don't think Nash couldv'e scored much more. He wasn't fast or physically great in anyway. He wasn't a Curry type in getting his shot off either.

Well then maybe you should take a look at what Nash did vs the Mavs in 2005. Nash was a crazy good shooter. He wasn’t Curry level as an all around scorer, then again neither is Giannis.

Nash was plenty capable of creating his own shots and at an efficient level. Just because he wasn’t 6’10 and didn’t drive to the basket like a crazy man every play doesn’t mean he was worse offensively than Giannis lol.

Nash just wasn't able to score alot often, easy to see watching him his career.

Except actually watching him would show the opposite. I’m not arguing that Nash is a better scorer than Giannis, I’m saying him being a significantly better shooter and playmaker puts him well ahead on offense.

Do you put Giannis ahead or comparable to Magic on offense since he scores a lot more?

[AEnigma]

Player A: 20.4/11.1 per 75 possessions on 60.4% efficiency
Player 1: 20.1/11.9 per 75 possessions on 60.2% efficiency

One of these players is a near consensus top three offensive player in the history of the sport. The other is the guy apparently comparable to Giannis offensively.

[Blame Rasho]

Player A: 20.4/11.1 per 75 possessions on 60.4% efficiency
Player 1: 20.1/11.9 per 75 possessions on 60.2% efficiency

One of these players is a near consensus top three offensive player in the history of the sport. The other is the guy apparently comparable to Giannis offensively.

You can’t do straight line comparisons from different eras.

[HeartBreakKid]

Player A: 20.4/11.1 per 75 possessions on 60.4% efficiency
Player 1: 20.1/11.9 per 75 possessions on 60.2% efficiency

One of these players is a near consensus top three offensive player in the history of the sport. The other is the guy apparently comparable to Giannis offensively.

You can’t do straight line comparisons from different eras.

Per 75 already takes into account some of that, and if anything Nash played in the less offensive friendly era.

[Jaivl]

Player A: 20.4/11.1 per 75 possessions on 60.4% efficiency
Player 1: 20.1/11.9 per 75 possessions on 60.2% efficiency

One of these players is a near consensus top three offensive player in the history of the sport. The other is the guy apparently comparable to Giannis offensively.

You can’t do straight line comparisons from different eras.

You're right, Nash is more impressive due to playing stronger defenses overall.

[CharityStripe34]

Isn't it sort of strange comparing a PG to a PF playing in very different systems?

It's more fun, for me, imagining Nash with Gianni in their primes and how Freak would get 8-10 easy points.

[bigboi]

You gotta be kidding me. You think teams really cared about Nash like they do Giannis? Out your damn mind. Nash is the most overrated player ever on this board. Never accomplished Jack in the postseason and his claim to fame is winning two mvps that folks don’t even think he deserved. Nash isn’t even a better offensive player than prime CP3 and prime CP3 isn’t better than Giannis offensively. Neither CP3 nor Nash should be the focal point of a championship team

How are you measuring offensive impact? By PER and ppg?

Just eye test I think. The same reason why people to this day think KD was the best player on the Warriors, he just fits the archetypal appearance of a dominant NBA player better than Steph does.

Likewise, if I were to show people an NBA mixtape of Giannis and of Nash, unless they were racist I'd assume that they'd assume Giannis is better lol.

Even by eye test Curry was better than KD so wrong because you could see the amount of attention Curry draws with or without KD. That’s why, Curry is better than KD to me

[rim213221]

Giannis by a massive distance. Far, far more dominant defensive player and rebounder and pretty comparable offensively regardless of regular season advanced metrics. Nash has never had a run on either side of the ball as dominant as 2021 Giannis in the playoffs. A 2-way wrecking ball who was utterly unstoppable.

[Statlanta]

good grief. the fact somebody created this thread is so disrespectful to giannis.

I dunno I watched Giannis shoot FTs like Ben Wallace today