All Primes: 2004 Lakers vs 2019 Warriors

[rand]

Who would win a best of 7 with all players in their average prime condition and with 2004 rules/refs?

2004 Prime Lakers
Gary Payton / Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant / Byron Russell
Rick Fox / Devean George
Karl Malone / Luke Walton
Shaquille O'Neal / Horace Grant

2019 Prime Warriors
Steph Curry / Shaun Livingston
Klay Thompson / Damion Lee
Kevin Durant / Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green / Kevon Looney
Andrew Bogut / DeMarcus Cousins

[TheGOATRises007]

Don't see how the Lakers have enough shooting and the fit is much worse.

[tsherkin]

I really don't see the chemistry on the Lakers squad. And I really don't see them having enough offensive firepower to compete with the Warriors. Payton and Malone don't click at all. And the best of the Shaq/Kobe Lakers teams didn't really approach the level of offensive efficacy we saw from the Warriors. Even if you consider a change in coaching that adopts more modern ball, Payton wasn't nearly a good enough shooter, and Malone didn't shoot 3s, they didn't have Horry... like, they couldn't replicate the spacing. Shaq couldn't get out there and effectively stop Billups on high PnR, he surely wasn't going to be a major defensive factor against Steph or KD pulling that action, and then Klay slithering around other screens for catch-and-shoot. Same same, it's not like prime Kobe is going to be busting up the offense with man-on defense. He was very good, but he wasn't an Olajuwon/Robinson-level defensive anchor.

[parsnips33]

Would start Bogut over Boogie

[An Unbiased Fan]

Who guards Shaq? Who guards Kobe? Who Guards Malone? Lakers also have GP and Byron Russell to help on defense.

[DonaldSanders]

Who guards Shaq? Who guards Kobe? Who Guards Malone? Lakers also have GP and Byron Russell to help on defense.

Shaq - Bogut (remember, this is primes, Bogut was a 7ft block champ)
Kobe - Klay (all defensive team perimeter defender)
Payton - Curry
Malone - Durant
Fox - Draymond (so he can play free safety at times)

The issue for the Lakers is that the league has progressed since their time, they just don't have enough shooting to keep up with the Warriors and the Warrior bench is deeper here (luckily they would never need to play their weak link, Damion Lee). Cousins comes off the bench with Looney, Iggy, and Livingston.

Sometimes these comparisons are a little unfair in that one team is composed for their time, and the modern team is built for the progression of the sport.

[dooki667]

Who guards Shaq? Who guards Kobe? Who Guards Malone? Lakers also have GP and Byron Russell to help on defense.

Shaq - Bogut (remember, this is primes, Bogut was a 7ft block champ)
Kobe - Klay (all defensive team perimeter defender)
Payton - Curry
Malone - Durant
Fox - Draymond (so he can play free safety at times)

The issue for the Lakers is that the league has progressed since their time, they just don't have enough shooting to keep up with the Warriors and the Warrior bench is deeper here (luckily they would never need to play their weak link, Damion Lee). Cousins comes off the bench with Looney, Iggy, and Livingston.

Sometimes these comparisons are a little unfair in that one team is composed for their time, and the modern team is built for the progression of the sport.

Well said agree 100%

[tsherkin]

Sometimes these comparisons are a little unfair in that one team is composed for their time, and the modern team is built for the progression of the sport.

Absolutely, though given the degree of talent on the 19 Warriors, I don't think it would have mattered much even in 2004. A 3pt shot was still a 3pt shot then, so their strategy would still work, and LA wouldn't be able to appropriately help on Steph, Klay AND KD. So it becomes a pick-your-poison game against basically the best shooters in league history. There is a threshold of efficiency which an offense driven by Shaq and Kobe could match, and it isn't really up to the standards of one run by that Warriors trio. And the Golden State squad doesn't come with the inherent chemistry issues the Lakers squad has, or Shaq's FT issue.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Who guards Shaq? Who guards Kobe? Who Guards Malone? Lakers also have GP and Byron Russell to help on defense.

Shaq - Bogut (remember, this is primes, Bogut was a 7ft block champ)
Kobe - Klay (all defensive team perimeter defender)
Payton - Curry
Malone - Durant
Fox - Draymond (so he can play free safety at times)

The issue for the Lakers is that the league has progressed since their time, they just don't have enough shooting to keep up with the Warriors and the Warrior bench is deeper here (luckily they would never need to play their weak link, Damion Lee). Cousins comes off the bench with Looney, Iggy, and Livingston.

Sometimes these comparisons are a little unfair in that one team is composed for their time, and the modern team is built for the progression of the sport.

I don't think the league has progressed. We just live in an age where defense is called differently. Well all those Laker players would be even more dangerous on offense due to that. Bogut would get manhandled like prime Mutumbo did. I don't see Klay keeping up with Kobe. Go look what Jimmy Butler has done the past 4 years playing old school ball. KD's slight frame trying to guard the Mailman? Curry on the Glove? Lakers have Russell, Ho Grant, Fox coming off the bench.

Those 19 Warriors lost to the Raps

[tsherkin]

Those 19 Warriors lost to the Raps

Okay, but if we're gonna play the "ignoring context cuz lulz game," I'm gonna play.

You remember that Durant played 12 minutes that series, right? And Klay missed a game and tore his ACL series, yes?

So instead of being intentionally ignorant, let's perhaps remember the details?

[Doctor MJ]

Key question: Is there a 3-point line?

[KobesScarf]

Warriors are a better fit but the Lakers have way too many favorable matchups.

Kobe can guard Klay, Klay cant guard Kobe. GP can guard Curry, Curry can't guard GP. Particularly if its 04 and refs are actually calling moving screens.

And obviously the Warriors front court is insanely overmatched.

Phil Jackson coaches circles around Kerr

Warriors 1 real advantage is having a superior bench

[tsherkin]

Kobe can guard Klay, Klay cant guard Kobe.

That's not how that works. Kobe's going to exert a TON of effort chasing Klay around trying to slow him down, and it WILL impact his overall game. Screens trump man defense every time, though, so Klay would keep getting free. He would obviously provide resistance, but I mean, again, you can be a phenomenal man defender and still get wiped out by screen after screen after screen.

GP can guard Curry, Curry can't guard GP.

GP isn't a good enough scorer that they have to care, and no, Payton couldn't really do a particularly good job on Steph. Curry would ruin Payton, that is essentially a given. Payton was a strong man-on defender, but having to guard Steph as soon as he crossed the halfcourt line and then chasing after him around all kinds of screens would wear him down, and he was not a particularly good halfcourt scorer or shooter to begin with. I wouldn't be scared of Payton's scoring at all, particularly since all the touches would be flowing through Shaq and Kobe, and then Malone, because Phil wasn't stupid.

Phil Jackson coaches circles around Kerr

Not really. Phil was a solid coach but he wasn't some savant. Most of what he did happened off the court, not on.

[parsnips33]

Put Shaq in PNR 40 times a game

[tsherkin]

Put Shaq in PNR 40 times a game

Right. This worked well for the Pistons. It would not go well for these 2004 Lakers, regardless of what version of Shaq they had.