Replace 1990-94 Ewing with 2019-23 Embiid

[70sFan]

He'd be among the biggest guys during that time period. Who is going to get physical with him and not end up on the worse end of it?

Shaq certainly, but others would be in big trouble.

I don't think Hakeem is going to start beating him up.

Definitely not, Hakeem would outplay him using his quickness and smarts on defense.

[cupcakesnake]

Embiid is pretty terrifying as a rim protector, so put him in an era where he can stay near the basket for the entire game and I think he's battling Hakeem, DK, and Robinson for the DPOY every year he's healthy. He's bigger than any of them besides Dikembe, and despite having more mass I think his vertical quicks are as good as Hakeem or Robinson. Not having to close out and recover as much would do wonders for his feet and knees.

I feel like he doesn't have the stamina/focus to do it for a full season like Hakeem and DRob. His defense gets a lot better in the post season, but look at how he impacts shots around the basket (<6 feet) per NBA.com (league / Embiid / Difference):

2023 - 64.6 / 63.2 / -1.4
2022 - 64.1 / 57.5 / -6.6
2021 - 62.3 / 57.0 / -5.3
2020 - 62.7 / 57.5 / -5.2

While good, those numbers don't compare against guys like JJJ, Brook Lopez, Giannis, Draymond, etc so having trouble seeing his rim protection on the same level as Hakeem and DRob and competing with them for DPOY, even if he somehow managed to play as much as them.

What I'm suggesting is that Embiid would be a better defender in the early 90s.
Like you say he's got stamina issues, but the physical demands in terms of movement are so much different now than they were in the 90s. No defensive 3 seconds and way less outside shooting means way less closing out, help and recover, and defending the perimeter. While I think Embiid is pretty mobile for his size, we've seen him struggle with the perimeter demands of the modern center.

So yes I think stamina problems are going to affect Embiid less in the early 90s.

[70sFan]

I think Embiid would be safer in the 1990s due to less stressed movement, but at the same time worse medicine wouldn't help and although weaker spacing would definitely help his defense, I doubt he'd be on Hakeem/Robinson level on that end either way.

[magicman1978]

Embiid is pretty terrifying as a rim protector, so put him in an era where he can stay near the basket for the entire game and I think he's battling Hakeem, DK, and Robinson for the DPOY every year he's healthy. He's bigger than any of them besides Dikembe, and despite having more mass I think his vertical quicks are as good as Hakeem or Robinson. Not having to close out and recover as much would do wonders for his feet and knees.

I feel like he doesn't have the stamina/focus to do it for a full season like Hakeem and DRob. His defense gets a lot better in the post season, but look at how he impacts shots around the basket (<6 feet) per NBA.com (league / Embiid / Difference):

2023 - 64.6 / 63.2 / -1.4
2022 - 64.1 / 57.5 / -6.6
2021 - 62.3 / 57.0 / -5.3
2020 - 62.7 / 57.5 / -5.2

While good, those numbers don't compare against guys like JJJ, Brook Lopez, Giannis, Draymond, etc so having trouble seeing his rim protection on the same level as Hakeem and DRob and competing with them for DPOY, even if he somehow managed to play as much as them.

What I'm suggesting is that Embiid would be a better defender in the early 90s.
Like you say he's got stamina issues, but the physical demands in terms of movement are so much different now than they were in the 90s. No defensive 3 seconds and way less outside shooting means way less closing out, help and recover, and defending the perimeter. While I think Embiid is pretty mobile for his size, we've seen him struggle with the perimeter demands of the modern center.

So yes I think stamina problems are going to affect Embiid less in the early 90s.

I get that, but how do Gobert, Lopez, Zubac, Allen, etc. Have much better rim protection numbers than Embiid (in many instances 10% better in certain seasons)? Are we thinking that's due to stamina issues?

[cupcakesnake]

I feel like he doesn't have the stamina/focus to do it for a full season like Hakeem and DRob. His defense gets a lot better in the post season, but look at how he impacts shots around the basket (<6 feet) per NBA.com (league / Embiid / Difference):

2023 - 64.6 / 63.2 / -1.4
2022 - 64.1 / 57.5 / -6.6
2021 - 62.3 / 57.0 / -5.3
2020 - 62.7 / 57.5 / -5.2

While good, those numbers don't compare against guys like JJJ, Brook Lopez, Giannis, Draymond, etc so having trouble seeing his rim protection on the same level as Hakeem and DRob and competing with them for DPOY, even if he somehow managed to play as much as them.

What I'm suggesting is that Embiid would be a better defender in the early 90s.
Like you say he's got stamina issues, but the physical demands in terms of movement are so much different now than they were in the 90s. No defensive 3 seconds and way less outside shooting means way less closing out, help and recover, and defending the perimeter. While I think Embiid is pretty mobile for his size, we've seen him struggle with the perimeter demands of the modern center.

So yes I think stamina problems are going to affect Embiid less in the early 90s.

I get that, but how do Gobert, Lopez, Zubac, Allen, etc. Have much better rim protection numbers than Embiid (in many instances 10% better in certain seasons)? Are we thinking that's due to stamina issues?

This is really widening the comparison and I'm not sure I'm prepared to contemplate the rim protection numbers of Ivica Zubac in 1990. I simply think a 90s Embiid would have an easier time with defense, as his responsbilities would be stripped down to rim protection, scoring on the low block, and shooting release valve foul line jumpers. In 2023, Embiid is doing a million more things because offense and defense are more complex. Bringing in Gobert and Zubac isn't the best comparison for Embiid, Ewing, Hakeem etc because we're comparing defensive specialists to primary offensive options. If you told me 90s guys like Mark Eaton, Pervis Ellison, Duane Causewell, Manute Bol, or Benoit Benjamin had better rim protection numbers than Hakeem and Ewing, I wouldn't be discarding them as defenders.

For the record I'm not a big Embiid fan fighting for his rep here. My point is simple: I think Embiid would be in a better defensive context in the 90s that the 2020s. Yes this is probably true of most big modern rim protectors.