migya wrote:AEnigma wrote:migya wrote:53 wins in 1992. Maybe KJ was a superstar.
… Yes?
Did we finally stumble across a ‘90s guy you will not gas?
Besides the extra 1200 minutes for KJ, they also had 3000 minutes of peak Jeff Hornacek, whom I would probably ballpark as a top ~20-25 player that year.
At full health the 1993 Suns would be one of the three strongest supporting casts in the league, with a strong case for number one. But at full health they likely go for 65+ wins and there is really no question remaining, regardless of whether other players were better or otherwise had better box scores.
That all said…
If Barkley is disqualified because he in essence replaced 1200 minutes of KJ and 3000 minutes of Hornacek and only provided a 9-win swing… then with hindsight, what exactly is Jordan’s case?
Your gas is pretty weak.
Because I do not have an inclination here to gas anyone lol. Like this is just dumb: I said the Suns had one of the best casts but were not healthy, and I said Barkley was not a top two “best” player or on the level of Magic. It is not “gas” to say it might matter to lose thirty games of a player who for the prior four years had been the engine behind a team with a consistent top four point differential.
900 minutes extra of vastly improved Ceballos, 300 extra of Majerle and as I said, Dumas, the dynamic rookie, but anyway, it's the 90s it's no good, even a high volume, high efficiency shooter like Ainge
Ainge was decidedly not high volume, but we are quite literally comparing 1990s players to other 1990s players. I am more skeptical that peak Hornacek would be an all-star talent today, but he was one in 1992. Ceballos is better and you added Dumas, but Chambers is worse and you also subtracted Tim Perry and Andrew Lang (both of whom were playing over the suddenly praiseworthy Mark West). These are all relatively lateral changes even if you prefer the 1993 cast around their two stars.
We can extend past 1993 even. Next season, Ceballos and Oliver Miller are better, as you would expect. They add 2800 minutes of A.C. Green to replace Chambers. And you have an extra 800 minutes from KJ. Despite all that, the team drops six wins as Barkley plays 560 fewer minutes and the team again has a losing record without him (this time a more intuitively reasonable 8-9). How much of that are you actually placing on that “dynamic rookie” being suspended again.
Again, I do not even care much for Barkley. I think he was better in 1990 but would not have supported him as a top player then either (admittedly contextual: 1993 had an off-year injury recovery Robinson, a worse Ewing, and no Magic). It just so happens that you are trying to push an alternative case for a guy who had a healthier team which with hindsight we know needed him far less, yet which still won five fewer games than Barkley’s Suns.
