Peaks: Draymond vs Dwight vs Pippen vs Westbrook

[Jaivl]

It’s like these lists were made with a random number generator lmfao no one agrees

Hah! Joke is on you, Unibro!

1. Dwight
2. Russ
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

1. Howard
2. Westbrook
3. Pippen
4. Green

(very close)

Dwight
Russ

Pippen

Dray

[MyUniBroDavis]

It’s like these lists were made with a random number generator lmfao no one agrees

Hah! Joke is on you, Unibro!

1. Dwight
2. Russ
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

1. Howard
2. Westbrook
3. Pippen
4. Green

(very close)

Dwight
Russ

Pippen

Dray

Smelly

[Pelly24]

People voting Westbrook at the bottom are insane. His 2017 season was fantastic. He scored the ball on above average efficiency while leading the league in PPG, AST%, and BPM. He had an on/off of +12.5 in the regular season and +62.8 in the postseason. You think Pippen ever had a year like that?

Bias in sports is undefeated. Between 2013 and 2017 Russ was pretty much unstoppable whether he scored efficiently or not. OKC was incredible when he and KD were together, beating prime 2k16 Kawhi, Prime CP3 and Blake in 2014, doing better against the 2014 spurs than the Heat did. even taking the GSW to a 3-1 lead and going 7 games was crazy. And Russ' MVP season was ridiculous. Incredible shotmaking, clutch baskets, all-time levels of playmaking and impact.

The order is this:

1. Russ
2. D12
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

[MiamiBulls]

People voting Westbrook at the bottom are insane. His 2017 season was fantastic. He scored the ball on above average efficiency while leading the league in PPG, AST%, and BPM. He had an on/off of +12.5 in the regular season and +62.8 in the postseason. You think Pippen ever had a year like that?

Bias in sports is undefeated. Between 2013 and 2017 Russ was pretty much unstoppable whether he scored efficiently or not. OKC was incredible when he and KD were together, beating prime 2k16 Kawhi, Prime CP3 and Blake in 2014, doing better against the 2014 spurs than the Heat did. even taking the GSW to a 3-1 lead and going 7 games was crazy. And Russ' MVP season was ridiculous. Incredible shotmaking, clutch baskets, all-time levels of playmaking and impact.

The order is this:

1. Russ
2. D12
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

Russell Westbrook in the 2017 Playoffs averaged 35ppg/per 75 on 51.1% TS against the 13th Worst Defense in the NBA. What is so impressive and unstoppable about that type scoring? How much championship level value does that type of negative efficiency scoring bring?

As a scorer in his prime in the Playoffs from 2013-2018, Westbrook averaged 27.7ppg/per 75 on 54.1% TS (-1.2% Defense Adjusted TS). What is the ceiling in terms of team value is Russell Westbrook bringing just from his scoring alone?

[iggymcfrack]

People voting Westbrook at the bottom are insane. His 2017 season was fantastic. He scored the ball on above average efficiency while leading the league in PPG, AST%, and BPM. He had an on/off of +12.5 in the regular season and +62.8 in the postseason. You think Pippen ever had a year like that?

Bias in sports is undefeated. Between 2013 and 2017 Russ was pretty much unstoppable whether he scored efficiently or not. OKC was incredible when he and KD were together, beating prime 2k16 Kawhi, Prime CP3 and Blake in 2014, doing better against the 2014 spurs than the Heat did. even taking the GSW to a 3-1 lead and going 7 games was crazy. And Russ' MVP season was ridiculous. Incredible shotmaking, clutch baskets, all-time levels of playmaking and impact.

The order is this:

1. Russ
2. D12
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

Russell Westbrook in the 2017 Playoffs averaged 35ppg/per 75 on 51.1% TS against the 13th Worst Defense in the NBA. What is so impressive and unstoppable about that type scoring? How much championship level value does that type of negative efficiency scoring bring?

As a scorer in his prime in the Playoffs from 2013-2018, Westbrook averaged 27.7ppg/per 75 on 54.1% TS (-1.2% Defense Adjusted TS). What is the ceiling in terms of team value is Russell Westbrook bringing just from his scoring alone?

You have to look at the context. Russ was carrying an insane load on a terrible offensive team. In the regular season, the Thunder had a TS% of .542 to Russ’s .554 and in the postseason they were at .525 compared to Russ’s .511 with Russ taking every difficult shot at the end of the shot clock. His supposed #2 Oladipo had a TS% of .424 in the postseason. With a completely garbage supporting cast, Russ still managed to have a positive NetRtg while he was on the floor against a 55-27 team even as they got demolished at a historic rate when he was on the bench. The vast majority of good looks the Thunder got were directly created by Russ. And even in 2016, he was much more efficient and impactful than KD in the postseason. By 2018, he has already declined significantly from his peak and wasn’t the same player any more, but he absolutely was that guy in the preceding years.

[Pelly24]

People voting Westbrook at the bottom are insane. His 2017 season was fantastic. He scored the ball on above average efficiency while leading the league in PPG, AST%, and BPM. He had an on/off of +12.5 in the regular season and +62.8 in the postseason. You think Pippen ever had a year like that?

Bias in sports is undefeated. Between 2013 and 2017 Russ was pretty much unstoppable whether he scored efficiently or not. OKC was incredible when he and KD were together, beating prime 2k16 Kawhi, Prime CP3 and Blake in 2014, doing better against the 2014 spurs than the Heat did. even taking the GSW to a 3-1 lead and going 7 games was crazy. And Russ' MVP season was ridiculous. Incredible shotmaking, clutch baskets, all-time levels of playmaking and impact.

The order is this:

1. Russ
2. D12
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

Russell Westbrook in the 2017 Playoffs averaged 35ppg/per 75 on 51.1% TS against the 13th Worst Defense in the NBA. What is so impressive and unstoppable about that type scoring? How much championship level value does that type of negative efficiency scoring bring?

As a scorer in his prime in the Playoffs from 2013-2018, Westbrook averaged 27.7ppg/per 75 on 54.1% TS (-1.2% Defense Adjusted TS). What is the ceiling in terms of team value is Russell Westbrook bringing just from his scoring alone?

Context is important. Russ' second-best offensive player, Victor Oladipo, averaged 10 points, 6 rebounds on 34/24 splits while getting to the free throw line 1.2 times a game. Kanter was made unplayable because of his defense. That should be enough to explain it, but it goes deeper, obviously. OKC had a total lack of shooting, playmakers.

The Rockets only led the Thunder in that series 29% of the time. In the 46 minutes Russ sat, the Thunder were outscored by 58 points. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/4/26/15431112/russell-westbrook-rockets-thunder-lineups-2017

Also, while a 51 TS% might not be good, you also have to look at it relatively. 1, the league average TS% in 2017 was 53.7%. So that would be like someone averaging 37 points, 12 rebounds, 11 assists and 2 steals on 55 or 56 TS% today. The efficiency isn't great, but when you consider that he was generating those numbers all by himself — and all stats point to this — this is actually a pretty incredibly stat line, and the on/off, the 9.7 BPM, etc. shows this to be true. The reality is that this OKC team was terrible and had no business being in the playoffs at all, but they won 47 games and got the 6th seed in a stacked Western Conference literally because Westbrook was so good. I watched him single-handedly win so many games at the last second that year, I've never seen anyone do it since. Some days he would be Kobe, other days he'd be a 25 ppg Rondo, it was insane. He was by all stats the most clutch player in the league that year. People will come down on the triple double argument, but the fact remains, it only became seen as worthless after he made it look routine. But that aside, he basically broke +/-, was the most clutch player, was hitting a career high from three on big volume. And it's not even like you can say he wasn't scalable, because he and KD went to the finals or WCF every single year they were both healthy in their prime. Because KD fits a better stereotypical ideal, people give him way more credit, but there are strong arguments to be made that Russ outplayed KD in both 2014 and 2017 postseason.

As for 2018, to me he was done by then, never the same after 2017. But he matched or outplayed CP3 and Kawhi and Blake Griffin and a bunch of other players across 2012-2017 in the playoffs, and anyone who really watched the games and doesn't just subscribe to narratives knows this. The question of what Russ brings to the table if scoring is all he brings is a moot point, because he's one of the best playmakers of all time. KD is a GOAT, but his rim pressure just wasn[t the same, and he wasn't nearly the playmaker. Russ drove those offenses like a worse LeBron, but it was a perfect match. Peak Russ and 2017 AD could've won a championship, peak Russ and Jimmy Butler, Peak Russ and Embiid, etc.

Draymond is great, but Idk about even peak Draymond in a vacuum. He's great, but Draymond and KD doesn't get you to the Western Conference finals. Scottie Pippen I think is a little overrated, no, he was never as outright dominant as Russ was between 2014 and 2017. Dwight Howard was legitimately a top 5 player in the league at one point so I can understand him being above peak Russ. But not above. Other guys don't have an argument IMO

[OhayoKD]

People voting Westbrook at the bottom are insane. His 2017 season was fantastic. He scored the ball on above average efficiency while leading the league in PPG, AST%, and BPM. He had an on/off of +12.5 in the regular season and +62.8 in the postseason. You think Pippen ever had a year like that?

Bias in sports is undefeated. Between 2013 and 2017 Russ was pretty much unstoppable whether he scored efficiently or not. OKC was incredible when he and KD were together, beating prime 2k16 Kawhi, Prime CP3 and Blake in 2014, doing better against the 2014 spurs than the Heat did. even taking the GSW to a 3-1 lead and going 7 games was crazy. And Russ' MVP season was ridiculous. Incredible shotmaking, clutch baskets, all-time levels of playmaking and impact.

The order is this:

1. Russ
2. D12
3. Pippen
4. Draymond

Russell Westbrook in the 2017 Playoffs averaged 35ppg/per 75 on 51.1% TS against the 13th Worst Defense in the NBA. What is so impressive and unstoppable about that type scoring? How much championship level value does that type of negative efficiency scoring bring?

As a scorer in his prime in the Playoffs from 2013-2018, Westbrook averaged 27.7ppg/per 75 on 54.1% TS (-1.2% Defense Adjusted TS). What is the ceiling in terms of team value is Russell Westbrook bringing just from his scoring alone?

Fixating on the scoring of an all-time creator is problem #1.