Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor?

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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#141 » by DatAsh » Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:05 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:During the entire conversation the idea of a 7 foot 5 KD analogy basically assumes an impossible scenario where his coordination and fluidity and handles translate 1 to 1, thats why it’s a broken comparison.

If you assume he’s 7ft5 and he gets the stiffness and awkwardness that comes with that height I can see where you’re coming from more, although he’d likely be the best off ball player ever depending on how much you keep


Ahh, I guess I misunderstood. Yeah if you can gain all the upsides of growing taller, while seeing none of the downsides, then of course it would be better to be taller.

I guess when looking at the KD/Victor comparison, I tend to think one of the main reasons that KD is so much quicker, jumps higher, and handles so much better is because he's shorter.

I will say that I think Vic's ceiling is certainly higher than KDs, and maybe the highest ever.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#142 » by tsherkin » Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:55 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Asianiac_24 wrote:He's basically a 7'5 Anthony Davis with a 3 point shot, if he stays healthy and reach his potential how would he not be a GOAT contender?


This seems off. He doesn't seem as mobile as Davis, certainly isn't as good a shooter and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer without some major development in his shooting ability. He's got loads of defensive potential, but his height may actually work more against him than for him as far as offensive potential.


Wemby is more mobile than AD, but he isn’t as explosive


I dont see superior mobility when I watch him, personally.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#143 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:41 pm

tsherkin wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
This seems off. He doesn't seem as mobile as Davis, certainly isn't as good a shooter and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer without some major development in his shooting ability. He's got loads of defensive potential, but his height may actually work more against him than for him as far as offensive potential.


Wemby is more mobile than AD, but he isn’t as explosive


I dont see superior mobility when I watch him, personally.



I think AD is more explosive and faster, and more mobile in that sense, but Wemby is quicker and shiftier
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#144 » by Colbinii » Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:42 pm

tsherkin wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
This seems off. He doesn't seem as mobile as Davis, certainly isn't as good a shooter and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer without some major development in his shooting ability. He's got loads of defensive potential, but his height may actually work more against him than for him as far as offensive potential.


Wemby is more mobile than AD, but he isn’t as explosive


I dont see superior mobility when I watch him, personally.


He looks considerably more mobile and fluid with the ball than AD. I am curious to see how he moves against NBA players because he seems quick in his movements, though AD is one of the quicker ATG Big Men we have seen.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#145 » by The-Power » Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:11 pm

tsherkin wrote:This seems off. He doesn't seem as mobile as Davis, certainly isn't as good a shooter and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer without some major development in his shooting ability. He's got loads of defensive potential, but his height may actually work more against him than for him as far as offensive potential.

Huh? How so? And why will he likely never be on the same level as a scorer? It looks like you decided, for some reason, to compare peak AD to Victor as a teenager.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#146 » by tsherkin » Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:08 pm

The-Power wrote:Huh? How so? And why will he likely never be on the same level as a scorer? It looks like you decided, for some reason, to compare peak AD to Victor as a teenager.


Odds, among other things. Me watching him, I don't see the mobility that others are describing. I don't have the faith in his shot.

We'll see. He's very tall; I immediately downgrade a prospect when they are that tall. I think there are diminishing returns to height, and I don't believe he is an elite shooter. I have ever been wrong before, of course. But I really don't see 24-28 ppg out of Wemby, that doesn't strike me as his likely role. I will continue to reevaluate as he goes, it's just my present impression.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#147 » by Blame Rasho » Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:56 am

tsherkin wrote:
The-Power wrote:Huh? How so? And why will he likely never be on the same level as a scorer? It looks like you decided, for some reason, to compare peak AD to Victor as a teenager.


Odds, among other things. Me watching him, I don't see the mobility that others are describing. I don't have the faith in his shot.

We'll see. He's very tall; I immediately downgrade a prospect when they are that tall. I think there are diminishing returns to height, and I don't believe he is an elite shooter. I have ever been wrong before, of course. But I really don't see 24-28 ppg out of Wemby, that doesn't strike me as his likely role. I will continue to reevaluate as he goes, it's just my present impression.


The thing is that people are comparing him to like our guy, Boban.

I think he is a freak esp for his size, but I think if you put historical context, Robinson and Hakeem had significant more mobility. We have to look at how he looks compared to players like Kareem, Eaton, Yao , Murisan,Bradley, heck Rik Smchit, and players of that ilk that are over 7’3 and yes… he is the most athletic
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#148 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:01 am

Blame Rasho wrote:The thing is that people are comparing him to like our guy, Boban.


Yeah, that seems excessive. It's very, very early with Wemby. I have never really believed in him as a high-octane offensive force, but his defensive potential and auxiliary offensive contributions? Different story.

I think he is a freak esp for his size, but I think if you put historical context, Robinson and Hakeem had significant more mobility.


Quite a bit. And more explosion, as well. I think that the mobility he displays is less relevant to the NBA game than it is in a contest between him and his size peers and I don't think THAT much of his scoring skill set. But it's two games into the SL and I used to think Kwame Brown was going to be great, so we'll see what happens >.<

We have to look at how he looks compared to players like Kareem, Eaton, Yao , Murisan,Bradley, heck Rik Smchit, and players of that ilk that are over 7’3 and yes… he is the most athletic


I don't know if he's more athletic than young Kareem. Certainly than the rest of the guys on that list, though, and certainly for other dudes of his height. Like, he's quite a bit more athletic than the Pavel Podkolzin's of the world, no doubt.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#149 » by Blame Rasho » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:06 am

tsherkin wrote: used to think Kwame Brown was going to be great, so we'll see what happens >.<



Kwame Brown had a 30/19 game once…so it isn’t like he didn’t have it in him to be great.

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/240317027
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#150 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:11 am

Blame Rasho wrote:
tsherkin wrote: used to think Kwame Brown was going to be great, so we'll see what happens >.<



Kwame Brown had a 30/19 game once…so it isn’t like he didn’t have it in him to be great.

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/240317027


He had the tools. He was a bit dim, and went into a fairly toxic environment. But yeah, major failing to take into account his mental game, for sure.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#151 » by The-Power » Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:50 am

tsherkin wrote:
The-Power wrote:Huh? How so? And why will he likely never be on the same level as a scorer? It looks like you decided, for some reason, to compare peak AD to Victor as a teenager.


Odds, among other things. Me watching him, I don't see the mobility that others are describing. I don't have the faith in his shot.

We'll see. He's very tall; I immediately downgrade a prospect when they are that tall. I think there are diminishing returns to height, and I don't believe he is an elite shooter. I have ever been wrong before, of course. But I really don't see 24-28 ppg out of Wemby, that doesn't strike me as his likely role. I will continue to reevaluate as he goes, it's just my present impression.

My issue with this is that AD was never a good shooter – certainly not when he entered the league – and also not known to be a primary scorer until at least his second year in the NBA. Victor is much further along in his development in both aspects at the same age. So even a skeptical view should not lead to statements such as “certainly isn't as good a shooter and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer” (especially the first part – if you think he's not going to reach 2018 or 2020 AD levels as a scorer that is more reasonable (even though I'm not sure I'd use the word ‘likely’ myself)).

Also, Victor averaged 24 Points per 36 already as a teenager in a solid European league. On very solid efficiency no less. What is the precedent for such a player to not score in that range in NBA – a much more scoring-heavy league – during his prime years later? Genuinely asking because I would be shocked if he didn't end up scoring in the 24-28 PPG during his prime (health provided) – even if he doesn't develop much but only incrementally as a scorer. Heck, I think there is a decent chance that he's a ~20 PPG player in his Rookie year if they let him to play 30+ MPG.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#152 » by MMyhre » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:24 pm

He is going to have to do a d12 and giannis and pop the roids like candy, he gets pushed around like a rag doll due to his low mass/high center of gravity, especially when he drives.

I just don't see the skill and fluidity on offense to be a Dirk/KD, he is clearly skilled, but I don't like his lack of flow when he creates for himself.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#153 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:45 pm

The-Power wrote:So even a skeptical view should not lead to statements such as “certainly isn't as good a shooter


He isn't right now. That doesn't mean it can't change.

and likely won't ever be quite the same level as a scorer” (especially the first part – if you think he's not going to reach 2018 or 2020 AD levels as a scorer that is more reasonable (even though I'm not sure I'd use the word ‘likely’ myself)).


Heck, I think there is a decent chance that he's a ~20 PPG player in his Rookie year if they let him to play 30+ MPG.


You're welcome to your opinion on the subject. I don't believe he'll be the first guy at his height to do that in the NBA. If he does, then fantastic, because I'd love to see that happen for San Antonio, I just don't see that as his most likely or most useful role.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#154 » by Mazter » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:24 pm

Besides the whatever he will be able to do do on court there are two more things he needs to be a LeBron level prospect. He needs to live up to the hype mentally, which isn't a given for most. And he needs

Besides that, he is already one year behind to doing what LeBron did. At this point LeBron already was a a RotY in a star studded draft, 9th in MVP votes, 9th in Eastern All Star votes, 13th in scoring, 13th in assists, 14th in steals and 18th in All NBA voting. Victor will be 20 soon and has yet to play a minute in the NBA.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#155 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:03 pm

Ultimately, he needs more time. 2 SL games don't mean too much in general, the good or the bad. We need to see him in the NBA, and not just the preseason. And then, even if he struggles, we need to see the rest of his rookie contract. Obviously, we'll likely know pretty fast if he's some kind of generational talent who translates to the NBA. Second season at the latest, I'd imagine. But rookies in bad spots don't generally look good, they look like they have loads of potential. Even Lebron and KD struggled as rookies in terms of scoring efficiency and learning curve and what have you, despite posting gaudy numbers.

So we'll have to see how Pops wants to use Wemby at the start, and I really don't expect a lot of minutes out of him. I'd be surprised if he was north of 30. I don't really think he'll get used as a major volume scorer. I think if he figures out his jumper and he's got something to work with from his perimeter guys, we could see some solid scoring in the high teens maybe, but like, there's been a lot of talk about a 3ball I haven't seen from him in his stats in the EL and he doesn't look like he's going to be a high FTr type player. So we'll have to see what he DOES bring. He's tall. He's mobile. He has a handle. He gets bumped around a lot. There's some really intriguing defensive potential. I get the excitement, especially given his coach and maybe some mentorship from TD and D-Rob. But there are questions. I think the most amazing thing would be if he made me eat my words, because generational talents are wonderful to watch, though.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#156 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:59 pm

Colbinii wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Wemby is more mobile than AD, but he isn’t as explosive


I dont see superior mobility when I watch him, personally.


He looks considerably more mobile and fluid with the ball than AD. I am curious to see how he moves against NBA players because he seems quick in his movements, though AD is one of the quicker ATG Big Men we have seen.


I agree, and it will be interesting to see if Victor becomes more explosive and/or less quick as he has strength over the years.


He's definitely more fluid in the open floor.

I just hope they rest him every B2B and play him under 30 mpg. There is no need to push him harder.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#157 » by tsherkin » Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:59 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:I just hope they rest him every B2B and play him under 30 mpg. There is no need to push him harder.


Sounds like both a Pops move and a smart one. Riding the guy early would be a mistake for his longevity. Let him adjust, see what he can do but don't push it. Worked out great with TD and does seem to be closer to the modern approach (go figure, fewer minutes tends to lead to more years...).

A rookie season on a bad team is basically a throwaway year anyhow, so why push it? Just let him adjust and see what he can do.
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Re: Anyone else not seeing a Lebron level prospect in Victor? 

Post#158 » by MMyhre » Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:25 pm

Mazter wrote:Besides the whatever he will be able to do do on court there are two more things he needs to be a LeBron level prospect. He needs to live up to the hype mentally, which isn't a given for most. And he needs

Besides that, he is already one year behind to doing what LeBron did. At this point LeBron already was a a RotY in a star studded draft, 9th in MVP votes, 9th in Eastern All Star votes, 13th in scoring, 13th in assists, 14th in steals and 18th in All NBA voting. Victor will be 20 soon and has yet to play a minute in the NBA.

LeBron exploded his sophomore year too, just that advantage of a smart, talented, hard working player getting one year of NBA experience which is pretty much the best basketball stimulus you can get. That's why I think we will see more of Wembanyamas ceiling in his sophomore year, unless he shocks me and already explodes this year (very unlikely to me, does not look ready to dominate offensively at least imo).

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