Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time

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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#21 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:15 am

Those stats are often unreliable. When you go through the Spurs rosters over his 98 to 07 Prime they basically always have a 5 starting next to him when healthy (and for most years after that too). Obviously he did both, but hard to label a guy who started at the 4 as having played 5.

Realistically if he was drafted today, on a team without a star 5 man, he'd be playing the 5 spot exclusively. That's not what happened though.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#22 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:38 am

One_and_Done wrote:Those stats are often unreliable. When you go through the Spurs rosters over his 98 to 07 Prime they basically always have a 5 starting next to him when healthy (and for most years after that too). Obviously he did both, but hard to label a guy who started at the 4 as having played 5.

Realistically if he was drafted today, on a team without a star 5 man, he'd be playing the 5 spot exclusively. That's not what happened though.

I certainly wouldn't call Oberto a center. The truth is that Spurs either played Duncan next to PF or they played two centers lineups.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#23 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:58 am

Oberto was definitely a 5. What is your argument that he wasn't? Because he wasn't 7 feet tall? He had no range, was relatively immobile, and guarded 5 men.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#24 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:35 am

One_and_Done wrote:Oberto was definitely a 5. What is your argument that he wasn't? Because he wasn't 7 feet tall? He had no range, was relatively immobile, and guarded 5 men.

No, my argument is that he wasn't the main paint protector for the Spurs (he didn't guard centers more often than Duncan) and he didn't operate around the post either. He was a typical scrappy 1980s and 1990s PF.

By your logic, Iavaroni was a center in 1983 Sixers team, because he had less range and mobility than Moses.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#25 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:41 am

The 5 isn't always the best shot blocker. I could cite a bunch of examples, but the most recent example is the best. Wemby is likely going to play the 4 for the Spurs and be their best rim protector, while Zach Collins will be their 5; spacing on O, guarding 5s on D.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#26 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:44 am

One_and_Done wrote:The 5 isn't always the best shot blocker. I could cite a bunch of examples, but the most recent example is the best. Wemby is likely going to play the 4 for the Spurs and be their best rim protector, while Zach Collins will be their 5; spacing on O, guarding 5s on D.

Yeah, that's why I said Duncan was a center because he spent the most time in the paint on both ends of the floor, not because he was their best shotblocker.

What is your definition of center? A player with the least shooting range?
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#27 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:52 am

You get credit for being the position you guard most if there is ambiguity. For Oberto that was the 5. For Duncan it was the 4.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#28 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:54 am

One_and_Done wrote:You get credit for being the position you guard most if there is ambiguity. For Oberto that was the 5. For Duncan it was the 4.

Show me the data that indicates Duncan didn't guard centers as often as Oberto.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#29 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:56 am

You basically need to watch the games unfortunately, because the stats on position played are so unreliable.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#30 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 10:00 am

One_and_Done wrote:You basically need to watch the games unfortunately, because the stats on position played are so unreliable.

I watched games from 2006/07 Spurs title season and I can't understand how anyone can watch this team and call Oberto a center.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#31 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 10:08 am

Did you think Elson and Nazr and Rasho and Splitter were also brought in to start at the 4?
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#32 » by 70sFan » Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:52 pm

One_and_Done wrote:Did you think Elson and Nazr and Rasho and Splitter were also brought in to start at the 4?

Elson and Nazr no, they were backup centers that didn't play significant minutes in SA. Rasho was a center, that's the case when the Spurs played two centers lineup, replacing Robinson with Rasho.

Splitter is a completely different era and he didn't play significant minutes either.

Duncan played at PF in his first 4 seasons next to Robinson, but by 2002 he played center role even when Robinson was on the floor. The same thing applied for 2004-06 period and then Duncan became full-time center until 2012.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#33 » by One_and_Done » Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:02 pm

'Back up center' Elson started more games than Oberto and played more minutes in 07. Pretty sure they were the 5s.

I mean I watched the games too. There was almost always a 5 starting next to TD from 98 to 07. This included Nazr & Rasho.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#34 » by dygaction » Fri Jul 14, 2023 10:49 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Not counting Duncan:

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Karl Malone
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Charles Barkley
5. Bob Pettit
6. Kevin McHale
7. Pau Gasol
8. Elvin Hayes
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Billy Cunningham

This was from a while ago...looking back at it, I think Bosh should make the list. He's a really good player that gets underrated badly.

Duncan played at PF for most of his career, so he's a PF.

1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Dirk (flip flop with Malone)
4. K.Malone (for now on longevity)
5. Giannis (will finish 3rd on his current pace)
6. A.Davis
7. Barkley

HM: Pau, Webber, Draymond, McHale, etc.


Only 36% of Duncan’s minutes were played at PF according to BB-ref and Pop’s on record saying he considered Duncan a center for more years than BB-ref did.


He did not say or complain it while Duncan was pocketing those first-team all nba awards or got selected as all-star starters next to Shaq ...
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Re: Top Ten Power Forwards of All Time 

Post#35 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:40 am

dygaction wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Duncan played at PF for most of his career, so he's a PF.

1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Dirk (flip flop with Malone)
4. K.Malone (for now on longevity)
5. Giannis (will finish 3rd on his current pace)
6. A.Davis
7. Barkley

HM: Pau, Webber, Draymond, McHale, etc.


Only 36% of Duncan’s minutes were played at PF according to BB-ref and Pop’s on record saying he considered Duncan a center for more years than BB-ref did.


He did not say or complain it while Duncan was pocketing those first-team all nba awards or got selected as all-star starters next to Shaq ...


OK? So your point is that Duncan was only listed at forward to win all-NBA awards and I’m right that he was actually more of a center?

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