What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career?

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What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#1 » by ceiling raiser » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:49 am

During the Sharman-Wilt seasons, Chamberlain was touted as better than Russell at his own game. Not debating whether or not this is true, but the fact that this comparison was drawn favorably clearly meant something.

Say Wilt plays in the same style he did in his final two seasons for his entire career. How does his team success change?

Side question -- was there a material change between how Hannum and Sharman managed Wilt? Or was it just a difference in composition, and where Wilt was on the aging curve.
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#2 » by wojoaderge » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:59 am

One ring instead of two
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#3 » by eminence » Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:09 am

I do think Sharman asked him to step back considerably more on offense than Hannum did.

I can't see that style effectively translating to the Warriors, even Philly years with Arizin around. Could it've done more for his Sixers/Lakers years with more significant offensive talent around him? I don't feel confident either way on his Sixers seasons, but to me it does seem likely he'd have a better chance in '69/'70 than he did, the Lakers just too clearly spiked switching to that style with Sharman.
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#4 » by ceiling raiser » Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:07 am

wojoaderge wrote:One ring instead of two

Well that begs the other question I asked in the OP. How was his role different in 64 vs 67/68 vs 72/73? Was he any different a player? Or was it just a matter of different talent?
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#5 » by ceiling raiser » Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:21 am

eminence wrote:I do think Sharman asked him to step back considerably more on offense than Hannum did.

I can't see that style effectively translating to the Warriors, even Philly years with Arizin around. Could it've done more for his Sixers/Lakers years with more significant offensive talent around him? I don't feel confident either way on his Sixers seasons, but to me it does seem likely he'd have a better chance in '69/'70 than he did, the Lakers just too clearly spiked switching to that style with Sharman.

So with Wilt if we view his career in five different segments:

60-63
64-66
67-68
69-71
72-73

I’ve found the 69-71 portion extremely interesting. Because there’s a clear career arc as a player otherwise. First four years, he’s exploited for his scoring and overall athletic ability. In year five he starts to become a more complete weapon, and creates for his teammates. Year eight, reduces offensive primacy, and becomes a high post passed. Year 13 he does his best Russell impression. But years 10-12 feel like a wilderness. Maybe it was just struggling to play with Baylor?
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#6 » by 70sFan » Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:26 am

He'd be a worse player with less rings. It's not that simple that Wilt should have just focused on defense and rebounding. He did that in 1969 playoffs and he's still criticized for that run (even though he was dominant defensively).
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#7 » by ceiling raiser » Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:02 am

70sFan wrote:He'd be a worse player with less rings. It's not that simple that Wilt should have just focused on defense and rebounding. He did that in 1969 playoffs and he's still criticized for that run (even though he was dominant defensively).

This is a fair point. Honestly, I only really have two main criticisms of Wilt from 64-on in the playoffs:

68: Last two games of the ECF, it appears he lost the matchup. As far as I can tell though, there is no footage out there of these games, so all we have to go by are anecdotes.
70: Game 7 in the Finals. Wilt won the matchup but should've destroyed Reed and tested the injury.

65 and 66 they went up against a different team, 69 I think he played very well, 71 they went up against a better team, 73 West had two abysmal shooting nights in the backdoor sweep.
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#8 » by ZeppelinPage » Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:40 am

ceiling raiser wrote:
70sFan wrote:He'd be a worse player with less rings. It's not that simple that Wilt should have just focused on defense and rebounding. He did that in 1969 playoffs and he's still criticized for that run (even though he was dominant defensively).

This is a fair point. Honestly, I only really have two main criticisms of Wilt from 64-on in the playoffs:

68: Last two games of the ECF, it appears he lost the matchup. As far as I can tell though, there is no footage out there of these games, so all we have to go by are anecdotes.
70: Game 7 in the Finals. Wilt won the matchup but should've destroyed Reed and tested the injury.

65 and 66 they went up against a different team, 69 I think he played very well, 71 they went up against a better team, 73 West had two abysmal shooting nights in the backdoor sweep.


I tend to forgive the 1968 playoffs considering most of the team was injured during the ECF:

Wilt Chamberlain
Chet Walker
Hal Greer
Luke Jackson
Billy Cunningham (missed the entire series)
Wali Jones
Matt Guokas
Johnny Green

Some of the injuries happened mid-series while others were already injured and progressively got worse. Wilt wasn't injured often in the playoffs but this was some bad luck for him. I'm surprised he was even playing as he already had an injured toe and then tore his calf muscle and pulled a tendon in his thigh:
Spoiler:
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#9 » by 70sFan » Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:56 am

ZeppelinPage wrote:
ceiling raiser wrote:
70sFan wrote:He'd be a worse player with less rings. It's not that simple that Wilt should have just focused on defense and rebounding. He did that in 1969 playoffs and he's still criticized for that run (even though he was dominant defensively).

This is a fair point. Honestly, I only really have two main criticisms of Wilt from 64-on in the playoffs:

68: Last two games of the ECF, it appears he lost the matchup. As far as I can tell though, there is no footage out there of these games, so all we have to go by are anecdotes.
70: Game 7 in the Finals. Wilt won the matchup but should've destroyed Reed and tested the injury.

65 and 66 they went up against a different team, 69 I think he played very well, 71 they went up against a better team, 73 West had two abysmal shooting nights in the backdoor sweep.


I tend to forgive the 1968 playoffs considering most of the team was injured during the ECF:

Wilt Chamberlain
Chet Walker
Hal Greer
Luke Jackson
Billy Cunningham (missed the entire series)
Wali Jones
Matt Guokas
Johnny Green

Some of the injuries happened mid-series while others were already injured and progressively got worse. Wilt wasn't injured often in the playoffs but this was some bad luck for him. I'm surprised he was even playing as he already had an injured toe and then tore his calf muscle and pulled a tendon in his thigh:
Spoiler:
Image

I think 1968 (and 1970) is more forgivable than 1969. Based on the footage I have, Wilt was still a huge rim deterror but his offense doesn't look good (to say the least) and his activity was inconsistent as well.
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#10 » by eminence » Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:31 pm

My quick count on '69-'71 Lakers

93-48 with both West/Wilt in the lineup, 54 win pace, a bit underwhelming, but not bad
37-25 with just West, 49 win pace, pretty solid work from West
15-18 with just Wilt, 37 win pace, underwhelmed here, maybe he could've used more of his Warriors approach here, though I haven't checked the box-scores, maybe he did
4-6 without either, 33 win pace

Considering it's hard to see the just Wilt squad ever getting over the line to the title I feel the place to improve was the 54 win pace with both of them, a strong result, but well short of the dominance they showed with Sharman.
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Re: What if Wilt played like he did in 71-72 and 72-73 for his whole career? 

Post#11 » by ceiling raiser » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:04 pm

So in light of the quote Doc posted in the top 100 project thread, apparently Wilt scoring a ton from 60-66 scared defended enough that they sold out defending him in 67. Then in 68, Wilt took a further step back scoring, and defenses adjusted. The 67 Sixers in era were an incredible team but I do wonder how much of that was predicated on 7 years of built-up reputation.
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