RealGM 2023 Top 100 Project - #11 (Stephen Curry)

One_and_Done · Post #21 » by **One_and_Done** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 9:48 pm

His longevity does trouble me. Ideally I'd rather nominate KD here, and maybe even Karl Malone or Dr J. Down the road, I'm sure I'll have Giannis over D.Rob. What I'd say in defence of D.Rob is his peak is one of the highest remaining. The lift he gives you as a complementary player, combined with that crazy floor carrying ability, is a big selling point. It all depends if you feel D.Rob crosses the "enough" longevity threshold. The improvement of the Spurs in 1990 from a lotto team to a contender says pretty much all you need to know about his RS impact.

Post #22 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 10:04 pm

lessthanjake wrote:My biggest concern with David Robinson is that he really only had like 7 seasons as a major star. Maybe we could count 1998 and 1999 too, but I don’t know. I feel like those 7 seasons were great. The impact numbers we know on them are really good (on-off for the last three years of it are sky high with good “on”, WOWYR is sky high, the team was very bad the year before he showed up and the year he was injured, etc.). And, after that, he was an impactful player on a team that was good and even won two titles (with one of them being when he was still a very significant player). He was a great player, but the longevity is really low. Like, I don’t even think he’s really got *that* much of a longevity advantage against present-day guys like Giannis and Jokic.

To me, Robinson feels like a Garnett that has no pre-prime period, a shorter period as a major star (both with high impact and limited playoff success on a team with a bad supporting cast), and a shorter period as a post-prime post-prime player on a great and successful team. I actually feel like prime Robinson was probably a better basketball player than prime Garnett, but there’s just a lot less years of contribution there (and, while Garnett has already been voted in, I personally wouldn’t have voted him in at this point or anytime super soon).

Another analogy would be to Dwyane Wade, who had a similar number of prime years, followed by a similar number of years as an actual significant contributor on a great team. Robinson feels to me like he may have been the more impactful player, but at the same time, Wade did something Robinson never did—which is be the #1 player on a title team (and did so in extremely strong fashion in terms of playoff performance). Robinson perhaps didn’t have as much of a chance to do so, but the 2006 Heat actually weren’t a particularly great team, and in any event I don’t favor ranking players based on what they hypothetically could’ve done as opposed to what they actually did do.

So I'll say this:

You mention 7 seasons as a major star, and I'll say I have Robinson being on my Top 5 ballot 7 times.
How many guys have more seasons than that for me, and aren't already nominated?

5 guys:
Oscar Robertson (10 times)
Kevin Durant (8)
Karl Malone (8)
Dirk Nowitzki (8)
Bob Pettit (8)

I'd frankly understand picking all 5 of those guys above Robinson - not saying I would, but I get it - but that's not a lot of guys, and they aren't ahead by that much.

Now of course, aside from subjective differences, there's also the matter that arguably more guys should get the edge over Robinson for their sub-Top 5 seasons...but I would actually object to that pretty strongly, because I think Robinson was exceptionally valuable as his secondary scoring role in a way in which high primacy guys generally can't be. If one wants to argue that some of these other guys were better offensively than Duncan and so it's a knock on Robinson's offense that playing this way made sense, but in general I see Robinson's half-decade-ish period with Robinson as a pretty ideal thing for a guy who is no longer quite on that Top 5 level.

rk2023 · Post #23 » by **rk2023** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 10:05 pm

Vote for #11 - Kobe Bryant
Alternate Vote - Stephen Curry
Nomination - Oscar Robertson

Seems like sort of an uncommon opinion compared to the voting body, but I am of the belief Kobe has the best career value out of the remaining pool of players. There's a good shot, gun to the head, that I would take the peaks of the other 4 players whom are nominees at the moment over Kobe's - but his case would be made and sharpened through longevity that trumps the field (especially Bird / Mikan here). With Curry it's a little bit different, as I feel Curry at ages 33-35 was simply a more proficient and impactful centerpiece than post 2010 Kobe aged to be - but Kobe's advantage in this head-to-head stems from his early ascension breaking out in 2001 / at the age of 22 (In 2026, this likely will be a very different comparison result wise). I see Kobe having accrued All-NBA+ quality years from 1999-2013 (15 all-in-all). In contrast, Bird played 13 majority+ seasons and Curry 12 across their whole careers. As I mentioned before, I also do not see peak (2008/09 Kobe) too far dispersed from the likes of Bird (86-87) or Curry (16-17). As I think all three flank these solid apex periods of play with various MVP-caliber seasons, it's the aggregate body of work that's making me confident upon taking Kobe here.

From a prior nomination round, Kobe compared to Bird:

Stacking up their true primes with a combination of box and impact, though I acknowledge this as far from an end-all, be-all:

Kobe:
Spoiler:
Proxy wrote:Kobe Bryant absurd offensive resilience('01-'10):

RS -> PS:
29.3 Pts Per 75 -> 28.8 Pts Per 75
+2.8 rTS% -> +3.3 rTS%
8.45 cTOV% -> 8.4 cTOV%
8.5 Box Creation -> 8.6 Box Creation
+3.4 Team rORTG -> 5.6 rORTG

49.1 O Load -> 47.7 O Load
1.1 ScoreVal -> 1.3 ScoreVal
.9 PlayVal -> .9 PlayVal
4.8 BPM -> 6.1 BPM
+7.5 On/Off (5.5 On) -> 9.0 On/Off (4.6 On)

Average defense played in that stretch(148 Games): Ranked #5 in the league, -3.2 rDRTG

Same approach for Bird in 1980-88:
Spoiler:
Code: Select all
23.9 P/75 -> 22.2 P/75 (influenced by minutes) +3.1 rTS% -> +2.5 rTS% 6.0 Box Creation -> 6.3 Box Creation [unsure about team rORTG] +4.2 in RS however 41.9 O Load -> 39.3 O Load 1.2 ScoreVal -> 1.0 ScoreVal 1.4 PlayVal -> 1.0 6.1 BPM -> 6.3 BPM

Furthermore, some analysis back in 2016 from both's 5 year peaks:
Spoiler:
D Nice wrote:
Bird’s Best Support {in window}
84-88 McHale: 21.5/8.5/2 63TS% (Age 26-30)
84-88 Parish: 17/10/2 59TS% (Age 30-34)
84-88 DJ: 14/3.5/6.5 51TS% (Age 29-33)
84-85 Maxwell: 11.5/5.2 62TS% (Age 28-29)
86 Walton: 7.5/7/2 61TS%
85-88 Ainge: 13.5/3/5.5 58TS% (Age 25-28)

84 Celtics: 62 Wins, 6.4 SRS
85 Celtics: 63 Wins, 6.5 SRS
86 Celtics: 67 Wins, 9.1 SRS
87 Celtics: 59 Wins, 6.6 SRS
88 Celtics: 57 Wins, 6.2 SRS
AVG: 62 Wins, 7.0 SRS

Kobe’s Best Support {in window}
08-11 Pau: 18.5/10/3.5 60TS% (Age 27-30)
08-11 Odom: 12.5/9/3 56TS% (Age 28-31)
08-11 Bynum: 13.5/9/1.5 61TS% (Age 20-23…Injured 3/4 PS runs and missed 1/2 RS games...)
09 Ariza: 9/4/2 54TS% (Age 23)
10-11 Artest: 10/4/2.5 50TS% (Age 30-31)
08-11 Fisher: 9/2/3 53TS (Age 33-36)

08 Lakers: 57 Wins, 7.3 SRS
09 Lakers: 65 Wins, 7.1 SRS
10 Lakers: 57 Wins, 4.8 SRS
11 Lakers: 57 Wins, 6.0 SRS (Post-Prime)
AVG: 59 Wins, 6.4 SRS

06-10 RS Kobe: 30.0ppg/5.0apg - 56.5TS% 10.5TO%
84-88 RS Bird: 27.0ppg/7.0apg - 59.0TS% 11.5TO%
06-10 PS Kobe: 30.0ppg/5.5apg - 57.0TS% 11.0TO%
84-88 PS Bird: 26.5ppg/6.5apg - 57.5TS% 12.0TO%

It seems there's not much box-based evidence (am aware this leans much more on the offensive side) indicating a difference between the two offensively during this side. While I would take Bird's track record in the RS, I'm more keen on Kobe's playoff translation out of the two players. Considering (1) that 10 years >= a fringe MVP+ level would be more valuable than 9, (2) I don't see too substantial a gap (if any) in the value of the average season between the two players from this time frame, and (3) I would take Kobe's supporting years of 97-00 and 11-13 over 90-92 Bird [sort of obviously] - I feel comfortable taking Kobe in a career sense.

In more of an absolute rather than comparative sense - some other reasons I'm high on Kobe - of course excluding his impressive longevity:

1. Incredible playoff translation. In spite of playing a fair share of elite defense after elite defense (and with his occasional wart, see 2004 vs. DET and 2008 vs. BOS) - Kobe holistically 'rose' in both measurements of box production and efficiency in a playoff setting. I see this as a testament to his inelastic scoring and approach to offense. With that said, I'm most certainly not commending such thinking as a means of 'this is how an offensive centerpiece ought to play' (as I feel it bleeds value and holds Kobe back from the 'fringe GOAT' offensive level in the grand scheme of things), but such clearly worked in the slate of games that matter most. While I vehemently disagree with the soon to be mentioned rhetoric, perhaps this is the prominent reason NBA players rate Kobe's game very highly - the ability to do everything in his power to break/crack a defender or die trying. Of course, this framework of play leads to a fair share of less than inspiring nights of play (whether RS or PS), but [once again] the inelasticity featured could provide [in theory and in proof of concept / reality] some remarkable games that could swing or clinch a pivotal playoff series.

2. Underrated offensive skillset / 'complete package'. I've semi-often cited this video and some higher-level thoughts in various Kobe analyses on the board before (https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2272960&p=104735974&hilit=kobe#p104735974). In ElGee's analysis [which does extrapolate to an extensive slate of play], it's not hard to see Kobe move very well off the ball - fundamental to playing team offense efficiently in the triangle system - and make semi-advanced / high leverage interior reads off of drives. With Kobe's perimeter gravity (generating offense from the outside -> in [not saying he's quite the chaos creator Curry is here], ability to provide an offensive safety net through very resilient scoring, and underrated passing/movement chops - I see him as a player who could be deployed effectively as a floor and ceiling raiser (which has been empirically proven in both main Laker stints).

Furthermore, Kobe boasts a very polished, versatile synergy profile (I beliive proxy, unibrodavis, ohayokd all have posted &/or alluded to this before) where he functions well in many different sets and as a HC scorer - though he still is leaving some on the table from an efficiency standpoint by not getting out as much in transition and being a moderately above average rim scorer in terms of frequency and volume.

2008 Kobe Synergy Profile highlighted by Proxy in Greatest Peaks:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=100931713#p100931713

Same logic, but larger sample highlighted - h/t MyUniBroDavis:

Spoiler:

3. Defensive ability. I'll put it out there to start. Yes, I believe a *lot* of the all-defensive selections were confusing, reputation oriented ones (1999 and 2000, he was certainly an all-time level guard defender with some other solid [and others, leaving a lot to be desired] defensive efforts throughout the 2000s). I'm aware catch-alls perhaps grade him sort of low - but I definitely don't think he was covered for in casts that often appeared to be rock solid defenses (sans the 2005-07 slate of play, which I'm not high on from a defensive standpoint anyways). From film, I see Kobe as a great man-defender in higher leverage situations, good - not great - defensive playmaker, superb communicator which I see holding value, and good outwards & horizontal rotator. There are some drawbacks such as gambling on steals, allowing blow-bys, getting caught ball watching - but I would reckon a holistic viewing of Kobe's defense coupled with team data to complement would regard him as a firm positive.

rk2023 · Post #24 » by **rk2023** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 11:00 pm

I'm not quite low on David Robinson's longevity as I think he logs Weak-MVP level years for most of the 90s (perhaps even until 2001, of course this is with the 1996-97 campaign missed). He, at minimum, has 11 all-NBA+ level years - where this is without me counting 2002 as one. What I'm not as high on is Robinson's best years - as I now see him being nominated / gaining steam in this regard.

Great defender whom in theory would be maximized as more of a 2-O, 1-D player playing off of an excellent self/team creator (heck even scaling down for Tim Duncan didn't yield great offenses - but serviceable ones catalyzed by Duncan's scoring safety-net blended with the best non-Russell defensive run in history). I am aware that his impact in the 1994-96 campaigns was astounding, and wasn't necessarily put forth in a situation to succeed / be optimized within that time frame. In a sense, he gets the 'playoff choker' moniker unfairly thrown his way in a sense where he's being penalized for his goodness and situational value (both on/off and WOWY studies, the latter to my recollection only, grade him very highly). Rather than making it too much of an indictment on Robinson, I just think that it more hinges on the difference between being a top-20 peak/prime player vs. the top-10 or so one that some Robinson supporters may be arguing off of the Box Score / limited APM & AuPM data there is to assess him.

The biggest reason I see this being the case is due to volume scoring (rather lack thereof). I would certainly take peak Robinson/Garnett in an all-time team builder / draft sort of exercise rather than a pragmatic "build around this star and their contract" hypothetical over (let's use close proximity and compared examples in - ) Hakeem and Duncan here. A great argument exists that the former two offer some great off-ball skills (harder to say in the pre synergy / 2nd spectrum era), but I don't think either showed an ability to warp defenses through scoring [thus serving as an offensive centerpiece] akin to Hakeem/Duncan. All 4 are clear pantheon+ level defenders, but I reckon I would take the other three listed here over Robinson on that end. As I mentioned earlier, I see this leading towards a gap in how good Hakeem/Duncan were at their best contrasted to Garnett and further contrasted to Robinson.

f4p · Post #25 » by **f4p** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 11:29 pm

so for all the people picking steph, i just want to go back to playoff resiliency again. i looked at the last project's Top 33 (just stopped at pippen due to time and less interest in the players below him) plus newer guys like jokic, giannis, embiid, and kawhi and then put in tatum and butler. i would've put in doncic but i only did ages 22-35 and doncic only had one season (though he would have led the list below).

all the data is from ages 22 to 35 and it looks at the BBRef stats PER, WS48, BPM, and TS% and compares each year to the regular season. the resilience at the end is just an average of the normalized increase/decrease for each value. +1 is a top 95% value and -1 is a bottom 6.5% value (couldn't use 5% because the lower values were so low that they were making the average season as slightly "resilient"). for playoff runs shorter than 10 games, the final value was multiplied by "Games/10" so a 5 game, 1 round playoffs would get weighed at 50%. the 2nd table is all 416 playoff runs for these guys. the 1st table is their career average (each playoff run weighed equally to essentially average your resiliency from year to year).

Code: Select all

Rank   Player Name             Career Avg        
1      Kawhi Leonard           0.4561            
2      Hakeem Olajuwon         0.3315            
3      George Mikan            0.3246            
4      Lebron James            0.2747            
5      Bill Russell            0.2548            
6      Walt Frazier            0.2318            
7      Jerry West              0.2142            
8      Michael Jordan          0.2081            
9      Tim Duncan              0.166             
10     Magic Johnson           0.0968            
11     Scottie Pippen          0.0963            
12     Oscar Robertson         0.0865            
13     Kobe Bryant             0.0856            
14     Charles Barkley         0.0779            
15     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     0.0554            
16     Dirk Nowitzki           0.0534            
17     Jayson Tatum            0.0247            
18     Nikola Jokic            0.0205            
19     Shaquille O'neal        0.0179            
20     Moses Malone            0.0093            
21     Dwyane Wade             -0.0021           
22     Chris Paul              -0.0156           
23     Julius Erving           -0.0231           
24     Jimmy Butler            -0.0341           
25     Wilt Chamberlain        -0.0851           
26     Kevin Garnett           -0.1115           
27     Larry Bird              -0.1327           
28     Kevin Durant            -0.1435           
29     Patrick Ewing           -0.1446           
30     David Robinson          -0.1552           
31     Steve Nash              -0.1582           
32     Stephen Curry           -0.1613           
33     Bob Pettit              -0.1624           
34     John Stockton           -0.182            
35     Giannis Antetokounmpo   -0.1975           
36     James Harden            -0.1982           
37     Karl Malone             -0.2959           
38     Joel Embiid             -0.533

Code: Select all

Rank   Player Name             Season    Age   PER     TS%     WS/48    BPM     Resilience
1      George Mikan            1953-54   29    4.6     7.7     0.133            1.3491    
2      Tim Duncan              2005-06   29    7.3     10.2    0.065    3.6     1.2829    
3      Jerry West              1960-61   22    5.3     8.5     0.09             1.2777    
4      Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1969-70   22    6.9     5.6     0.099            1.2741    
5      Hakeem Olajuwon         1996-97   34    4.9     7       0.075    5.7     1.2296    
6      Hakeem Olajuwon         1986-87   24    4.7     10.5    0.062    4       1.1957    
7      Dirk Nowitzki           2008-09   30    5.3     7.1     0.067    3.5     1.0901    
8      Jimmy Butler            2021-22   32    6.3     1.2     0.063    5.5     1.0544    
9      Lebron James            2008-09   24    5.7     2.7     0.081    4.3     1.0482    
10     Kawhi Leonard           2016-17   25    3.9     6.2     0.05     4.8     1.0369    
11     Lebron James            2019-20   35    4.7     7       0.065    2.3     0.9788    
12     Hakeem Olajuwon         1987-88   25    15.6    8.6     0.203    10.1    0.9464    
13     Kawhi Leonard           2020-21   29    4.6     5.7     0.039    3.4     0.9338    
14     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1976-77   29    4.6     3.8     0.049    2.8     0.8582    
15     Scottie Pippen          1989-90   24    2.4     4.1     0.062    3.6     0.8555    
16     Julius Erving           1975-76   25    3.3     4.1     0.059    3       0.8493    
17     Bill Russell            1964-65   30    1.4     6.8     0.052            0.8415    
18     Bill Russell            1965-66   31    2.9     6.6     0.026            0.8314    
19     Dirk Nowitzki           2009-10   31    5.4     6.5     0.097    6.5     0.8056    
20     George Mikan            1948-49   24            4.3                      0.8001    
21     Charles Barkley         1993-94   30    5       1.2     0.023    3.6     0.7728    
22     Lebron James            2017-18   33    3.6     -0.2    0.048    4       0.7544    
23     Michael Jordan          1994-95   31    2.7     6.4     -0.017   3.8     0.7539    
24     Lebron James            2016-17   32    3.1     3       0.054    2.2     0.7401    
25     Stephen Curry           2016-17   28    2.5     3.5     0.043    2.8     0.7399    
26     Bill Russell            1961-62   27    3.2     3       0.04             0.7373    
27     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1973-74   26    3.9     1.9     0.047    2.4     0.7334    
28     Larry Bird              1983-84   27    2.1     5.5     0.021    2.7     0.7257    
29     Kobe Bryant             2009-10   31    2.8     2.2     0.03     2.9     0.6826    
30     Dwyane Wade             2015-16   34    2       1.5     0.043    3       0.6639    
31     Bill Russell            1962-63   28    2.3     4.4     0.012            0.65      
32     Nikola Jokic            2018-19   23    3.3     0.7     0.037    2.5     0.6474    
33     Julius Erving           1976-77   26    2       2.4     0.027    2.9     0.6462    
34     Oscar Robertson         1972-73   34    3.8     6.1     0.088            0.6455    
35     Larry Bird              1980-81   24    1.9     0.4     0.038    3.4     0.6353    
36     Kobe Bryant             2008-09   30    2.4     0.3     0.032    3.2     0.6259    
37     Tim Duncan              1998-99   22    1.9     3.2     0.03     2.1     0.6253    
38     Julius Erving           1978-79   28    2       3       0.038    2.8     0.6194    
39     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1983-84   36    2.7     -1.6    0.043    3.3     0.6106    
40     Kawhi Leonard           2018-19   27    2.1     1.3     0.025    2.9     0.6088    
41     Chris Paul              2010-11   25    5.2     9.2     0.01     3.4     0.6012    
42     Michael Jordan          1997-98   34    2.9     1.2     0.027    2.1     0.5951    
43     Walt Frazier            1973-74   28    2.6     2.9     0.021    1.6     0.5912    
44     Bill Russell            1960-61   26    3.9     0.3     0.02             0.5896    
45     Jerry West              1968-69   30    2.9     -1.5    0.058            0.5818    
46     James Harden            2020-21   31    -0.6    5.5     0.055    1.9     0.5791    
47     Tim Duncan              2002-03   26    1.5     1.3     0.031    2.6     0.5787    
48     Kevin Durant            2018-19   30    2.6     3       0.002    2.1     0.5772    
49     Stephen Curry           2021-22   33    3       0.5     0.03     1.9     0.5712    
50     Bill Russell            1959-60   25    1.9     0.8     0.038            0.5561    
51     Jerry West              1967-68   29    1.9     0.6     0.037            0.5438    
52     Hakeem Olajuwon         1985-86   23    1.4     0.6     0.045    1.9     0.5427    
53     Lebron James            2015-16   31    2.5     -0.3    0.032    2       0.534     
54     Kobe Bryant             2000-01   22    0.5     0.3     0.064    1.7     0.5294    
55     Magic Johnson           1985-86   26    1.6     -1.1    0.041    2.6     0.529     
56     Dirk Nowitzki           2003-04   25    5       0       0.097    5.7     0.5288    
57     Tim Duncan              2001-02   25    4.8     -2.6    -0.01    3.8     0.5083    
58     Scottie Pippen          1988-89   23    -0.5    2       0.024    2.7     0.502     
59     Bob Pettit              1962-63   30    1.1     1.8     0.022            0.4983    
60     Charles Barkley         1985-86   22    1.4     1.2     0.013    2.1     0.4927    
61     Kobe Bryant             2011-12   33    2.5     -0.2    0.011    2.1     0.4894    
62     Jerry West              1962-63   24    1.2     2.5     0.008            0.487     
63     Moses Malone            1982-83   27    0.6     0.9     0.012    2.7     0.4829    
64     Luka Doncic             2021-22   22    3.5     0.6     0.005    1.1     0.4812    
65     Walt Frazier            1974-75   29    7.4     13.5    0.09     5.3     0.471     
66     Lebron James            2013-14   29    1.7     1.9     0.005    1.5     0.4704    
67     Jimmy Butler            2018-19   29    0.9     -0.7    0.022    2.5     0.456     
68     Walt Frazier            1970-71   25    0.7     1.6     0.019            0.4555    
69     Shaquille O'neal        1995-96   23    1       0.5     -0.015   3.1     0.4429    
70     Shaquille O'neal        1997-98   25    2.2     1.7     -0.024   2       0.4427    
71     Hakeem Olajuwon         1993-94   31    2.4     0.3     -0.002   1.7     0.4426    
72     Chris Paul              2015-16   30    7       0       0.069    6.1     0.4396    
73     Dwyane Wade             2009-10   28    1.4     8.8     0.005    4.3     0.4325    
74     Kevin Durant            2011-12   23    1.3     2.2     0.001    1.1     0.427     
75     Michael Jordan          1990-91   27    0.4     -0.5    0.012    2.6     0.4211    
76     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1979-80   32    2.6     -2.8    0.026    1.7     0.4206    
77     Tim Duncan              2013-14   37    -0.2    3.3     0.04     -0.2    0.4156    
78     Kawhi Leonard           2015-16   24    2.6     -1.9    -0.006   2.4     0.4123    
79     Magic Johnson           1981-82   22    -0.4    2.4     0.024    1       0.4117    
80     John Stockton           1986-87   24    -0.8    14.5    0.026    0.8     0.3948    
81     Kevin Durant            2016-17   28    -0.1    3.2     0.002    1       0.3947    
82     Larry Bird              1985-86   29    -1.7    3.5     0.019    1.2     0.3907    
83     Scottie Pippen          1990-91   25    1.4     0.3     0.018    0.7     0.3866    
84     Moses Malone            1988-89   33    2.9     2.6     0.03     3.8     0.3788    
85     Wilt Chamberlain        1964-65   28    -1.5    3.9     0.003            0.373     
86     Tim Duncan              2011-12   35    0.4     -0.2    0.01     1.7     0.3687    
87     Dwyane Wade             2004-05   23    1.2     0       0.003    1.3     0.3672    
88     Walt Frazier            1972-73   27    0       2.5     -0.007           0.3647    
89     Chris Paul              2007-08   22    2.4     -1.1    0.005    0.9     0.3632    
90     Kevin Durant            2010-11   22    0.5     -0.7    0.028    1       0.3585    
91     Michael Jordan          1989-90   26    0.5     -1.4    -0.001   2.5     0.3555    
92     Jerry West              1961-62   23    -0.7    2       0.008            0.353     
93     Scottie Pippen          1999-00   34    1.1     -1.1    0.003    1.7     0.3515    
94     Dwyane Wade             2005-06   24    -0.7    1.6     0.001    1.6     0.3505    
95     Charles Barkley         1998-99   35    5.9     3.3     0.023    3.4     0.3479    
96     Tim Duncan              2000-01   24    1.6     -0.5    -0.027   2.2     0.3478    
97     Shaquille O'neal        1996-97   24    1.9     -0.4    0.018    0.7     0.3468    
98     Kevin Garnett           2000-01   24    1       3.8     0.079    4.1     0.3437    
99     Jimmy Butler            2019-20   30    0.2     3.1     -0.012   0.5     0.3367    
100    Karl Malone             1993-94   30    1.7     -1.9    0.016    0.9     0.3341    
101    Steve Nash              2009-10   35    0.8     1.9     -0.003   0.3     0.3337    
102    Magic Johnson           1987-88   28    -0.2    1.9     -0.001   0.9     0.3329    
103    Walt Frazier            1971-72   26    -0.1    1       0.004            0.3301    
104    Dwyane Wade             2010-11   29    0.7     -1.1    -0.002   1.8     0.3273    
105    Oscar Robertson         1970-71   32    1.5     -3      0.027            0.3258    
106    Kevin Durant            2020-21   32    0.5     -3.6    0.008    2.8     0.3245    
107    Kawhi Leonard           2019-20   28    0.9     0.4     0.002    0.5     0.3138    
108    Dirk Nowitzki           2010-11   32    1.8     -0.3    -0.003   0.4     0.3109    
109    Oscar Robertson         1973-74   35    0.9     0.1     -0.007   0.9     0.306     
110    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1978-79   31    1       2.4     0.003    0.4     0.3049    
111    Chris Paul              2014-15   29    -0.3    3.1     -0.022   0.7     0.3015    
112    Chris Paul              2012-13   27    2.8     3.9     -0.02    0.9     0.2897    
113    Kobe Bryant             2007-08   29    0.8     0.1     -0.03    1.6     0.2866    
114    Charles Barkley         1994-95   31    1.4     0.8     -0.008   -0.1    0.2852    
115    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2017-18   23    -0.7    2.2     0.032    0.9     0.2843    
116    Wilt Chamberlain        1963-64   27    -0.3    0.6     -0.002           0.2798    
117    Karl Malone             1991-92   28    -0.4    1.9     -0.017   0.8     0.2763    
118    Shaquille O'neal        2003-04   31    0.4     -1.3    0.01     0.7     0.2685    
119    Shaquille O'neal        2002-03   30    1.1     -3.2    -0.01    1.9     0.2606    
120    John Stockton           1990-91   28    -1.6    4       -0.009   0.4     0.2597    
121    Jerry West              1965-66   27    0.1     0.8     -0.019           0.2537    
122    Patrick Ewing           1992-93   30    0.8     -1.1    -0.015   1.1     0.2536    
123    Moses Malone            1979-80   24    0.8     1.7     -0.024   1.5     0.2443    
124    Kawhi Leonard           2022-23   31    6       4.7     0.033    7.7     0.244     
125    Magic Johnson           1986-87   27    -0.8    0.5     0.002    0.5     0.2421    
126    Hakeem Olajuwon         1992-93   30    -0.6    -0.9    -0.013   1.6     0.2354    
127    Michael Jordan          1992-93   29    0.4     -1.1    0        0.4     0.2302    
128    David Robinson          1990-91   25    -1.3    14.5    -0.03    0       0.2288    
129    Dirk Nowitzki           2005-06   27    -1.3    0.7     -0.012   1.1     0.2286    
130    Jayson Tatum            2020-21   22    2.8     0.1     -0.023   2.6     0.2283    
131    Dwyane Wade             2003-04   22    0.1     -0.3    0.001    0.1     0.2271    
132    Magic Johnson           1983-84   24    0.2     -2.7    0.007    1       0.2243    
133    Dirk Nowitzki           2007-08   29    1.7     0.3     -0.027   3       0.2149    
134    Bob Pettit              1959-60   27    -0.4    0.5     -0.019           0.2109    
135    George Mikan            1951-52   27    1       1.8     -0.062           0.2029    
136    Tim Duncan              2008-09   32    2.9     0.5     -0.02    1.3     0.1997    
137    Wilt Chamberlain        1959-60   23    -1.1    0.5     -0.004           0.1993    
138    Chris Paul              2016-17   31    1.6     -2.2    -0.018   1.7     0.1979    
139    Michael Jordan          1985-86   22    2.6     5.1     0.001    2.2     0.1953    
140    John Stockton           1985-86   23    0.2     7.8     0.008    -0.6    0.19      
141    Jimmy Butler            2014-15   25    -0.5    -2.1    -0.011   1.2     0.1796    
142    Steve Nash              2004-05   30    1.4     -0.2    -0.039   0       0.1781    
143    Kawhi Leonard           2013-14   22    -0.7    0.4     -0.002   -0.4    0.1756    
144    Kevin Garnett           1998-99   22    1.7     -0.5    -0.011   2.8     0.1727    
145    Nikola Jokic            2019-20   24    -0.1    0.9     -0.03    0       0.1718    
146    Charles Barkley         1995-96   32    2.7     -2.3    0.006    2.3     0.1712    
147    James Harden            2019-20   30    -1.6    1       -0.001   -0.2    0.1712    
148    David Robinson          2000-01   35    0.8     -2.1    -0.039   1.3     0.1709    
149    Julius Erving           1973-74   23    -1.7    0.8     0.014    -0.7    0.1671    
150    John Stockton           1996-97   34    0.6     -2.9    -0.025   1.2     0.1653    
151    Tim Duncan              2006-07   30    1.3     -2.3    -0.016   -0.1    0.1568    
152    Walt Frazier            1968-69   23    1.1     -3.5    -0.009           0.156     
153    John Stockton           1988-89   26    3       -2.3    -0.006   3.7     0.1498    
154    Hakeem Olajuwon         1990-91   28    -1.1    8       0.001    0.8     0.1486    
155    Oscar Robertson         1961-62   23    -0.6    3.2     -0.004           0.1483    
156    George Mikan            1949-50   25            -0.6                     0.147     
157    Kevin Durant            2017-18   29    -0.9    -3.4    0.022    0.3     0.1467    
158    Hakeem Olajuwon         1994-95   32    0.7     -0.3    -0.038   0       0.1465    
159    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1982-83   35    -0.8    -1.1    -0.033   1.1     0.1364    
160    Jerry West              1963-64   25    0.9     0.2     -0.022           0.1319    
161    Dirk Nowitzki           2001-02   23    0.7     -2.2    -0.029   0.9     0.1309    
162    David Robinson          1998-99   33    -1.6    -0.1    -0.018   0.4     0.1287    
163    Joel Embiid             2019-20   25    0.8     1       -0.027   1.5     0.1272    
164    Julius Erving           1977-78   27    -0.5    -2.2    -0.008   0.2     0.1204    
165    Dirk Nowitzki           2000-01   22    -0.5    -2.8    -0.018   0.9     0.1191    
166    Patrick Ewing           1996-97   34    -0.3    -0.1    -0.035   0.1     0.1108    
167    Chris Paul              2020-21   35    -0.7    -1.5    -0.023   0.4     0.1089    
168    Bill Russell            1967-68   33    -0.3    -0.3    -0.042           0.102     
169    Oscar Robertson         1962-63   24    0.1     -1.4    -0.035           0.1008    
170    Shaquille O'neal        2007-08   35    1.8     -10.3   0.024    2.8     0.1       
171    Kevin Garnett           2011-12   35    0.1     -0.9    -0.029   -0.4    0.0978    
172    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1984-85   37    -0.8    -2.6    -0.01    0.3     0.095     
173    Scottie Pippen          1991-92   26    -1.4    -1.1    -0.024   0.5     0.095     
174    George Mikan            1955-56   31    0.4     -1.3    0.016            0.0896    
175    Shaquille O'neal        2000-01   28    -1.5    -1      0.015    -1.2    0.0867    
176    Michael Jordan          1988-89   25    -1.2    -1.2    -0.022   0.2     0.0866    
177    Jimmy Butler            2012-13   23    -0.8    0.1     -0.053   0.5     0.0866    
178    Hakeem Olajuwon         1988-89   26    -1.1    -0.3    -0.015   1.4     0.0862    
179    Jerry West              1972-73   34    -0.5    -2.1    -0.022           0.0792    
180    Lebron James            2006-07   22    -0.6    -3.6    -0.006   0       0.0618    
181    Charles Barkley         1988-89   25    -2.7    3.8     -0.037   0.9     0.0578    
182    Patrick Ewing           1995-96   33    -2.8    0.6     -0.039   0.8     0.0561    
183    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2019-20   25    -0.6    -0.3    -0.041   -0.3    0.056     
184    Julius Erving           1972-73   22    -2.8    2.4     -0.034           0.0512    
185    Dirk Nowitzki           2011-12   33    0.8     -0.4    -0.036   -0.5    0.0484    
186    Lebron James            2011-12   27    -0.4    -2.9    -0.014   -0.4    0.0479    
187    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2020-21   26    -1.6    -3.4    -0.02    0.9     0.0453    
188    Jayson Tatum            2022-23   24    -1.1    -2.2    -0.017   -0.2    0.0452    
189    Scottie Pippen          1997-98   32    -0.9    -3.3    -0.027   0.6     0.0424    
190    Oscar Robertson         1966-67   28    -2.6    3.4     -0.051           0.04      
191    Michael Jordan          1991-92   28    -0.5    -0.8    -0.058   0.2     0.0378    
192    Michael Jordan          1995-96   32    -2.7    -1.8    -0.011   0.2     0.0288    
193    Wilt Chamberlain        1960-61   24    -1.1    -2.7    -0.001           0.0269    
194    John Stockton           1987-88   25    -0.7    -2.7    -0.037   0.3     0.0263    
195    Magic Johnson           1984-85   25    -0.9    -3.8    -0.01    -0.1    0.0252    
196    Moses Malone            1978-79   23    5       -10.3   -0.034   1.7     0.0243    
197    Karl Malone             1999-00   36    -1.3    0.2     -0.055   -0.2    0.0181    
198    David Robinson          1999-00   34    1       -10.5   -0.018   2.6     0.0147    
199    Steve Nash              1997-98   23    0.9     -4.5    -0.056   1       0.0129    
200    Patrick Ewing           1994-95   32    -3      0.4     -0.006   -1.2    0.0128    
201    David Robinson          1989-90   24    -1.9    -1.6    -0.022   -0.3    0.0106    
202    Bob Pettit              1956-57   24    -3.2    1       -0.038           0.0028    
203    Kevin Garnett           2001-02   25    1.7     -2.2    -0.073   -0.5    0.0015    
204    Hakeem Olajuwon         1984-85   22    -1.4    -7.4    -0.008   1.7     0.0014    
205    Jerry West              1966-67   28    -4.6    0       -0.2             0         
206    Patrick Ewing           1987-88   25    -1.2    -3.2    -0.034   0.2     -0.0044   
207    Shaquille O'neal        2001-02   29    -1.4    -2.1    -0.026   -0.5    -0.007    
208    Stephen Curry           2012-13   24    -0.8    -3.1    -0.019   -0.7    -0.0085   
209    Patrick Ewing           1989-90   27    -0.4    -2      -0.05    -0.3    -0.0088   
210    Michael Jordan          1996-97   33    -0.7    -4.3    -0.048   1       -0.0109   
211    Charles Barkley         1990-91   27    -2.1    -0.5    -0.041   -0.4    -0.0136   
212    Michael Jordan          1986-87   23    -1.7    -3.3    -0.082   1.9     -0.0157   
213    Scottie Pippen          1998-99   33    1.9     -8.2    -0.035   0.2     -0.0173   
214    Wilt Chamberlain        1971-72   35    -0.7    -4.8    -0.014           -0.025    
215    John Stockton           1992-93   30    -2.7    -2.4    -0.032   0.1     -0.0259   
216    Kevin Garnett           2009-10   33    -1.8    -3.9    -0.023   0.3     -0.0261   
217    Jimmy Butler            2013-14   24    -2.1    -1.5    -0.035   -0.8    -0.0301   
218    Shaquille O'neal        1994-95   22    -2.5    0.7     -0.05    -0.6    -0.0307   
219    Moses Malone            1987-88   32    -2.9    -1.4    -0.038   -0.3    -0.0341   
220    Moses Malone            1986-87   31    -4.5    0.6     -0.073   0.4     -0.0355   
221    Chris Paul              2019-20   34    -2.4    -0.6    -0.052   -0.3    -0.039    
222    Jerry West              1964-65   26    1.7     -3.8    -0.072           -0.0392   
223    Oscar Robertson         1963-64   25    -2.9    -0.8    -0.033           -0.0423   
224    Lebron James            2009-10   25    -2.5    0.3     -0.057   -0.3    -0.043    
225    Larry Bird              1989-90   33    -1.2    -0.7    -0.051   -1.6    -0.043    
226    Nikola Jokic            2022-23   27    -0.3    -7      -0.003   -0.2    -0.0432   
227    Scottie Pippen          1995-96   30    -1.6    -7.8    -0.014   1.5     -0.0476   
228    Chris Paul              2013-14   28    -2.3    0.3     -0.075   0.2     -0.049    
229    James Harden            2014-15   25    -1.9    1.5     -0.063   -1.2    -0.0493   
230    Stephen Curry           2018-19   30    -1.8    -2.1    -0.014   -1.4    -0.0509   
231    Moses Malone            1981-82   26    -2.5    -8.7    -0.035   1.4     -0.0534   
232    Kobe Bryant             2006-07   28    -2      -1.9    -0.078   0.2     -0.0584   
233    Julius Erving           1981-82   31    -3.4    -1.2    -0.044   0.3     -0.061    
234    Bill Russell            1968-69   34    0.1     -1.9    -0.077           -0.0662   
235    Chris Paul              2018-19   33    -2.1    -0.3    -0.04    -1.4    -0.0713   
236    John Stockton           1997-98   35    -1.8    -5.9    -0.027   0.8     -0.0713   
237    Julius Erving           1984-85   34    -3.1    -2.9    -0.027   0.1     -0.0732   
238    Walt Frazier            1967-68   22    -1.8    -3.2    -0.062           -0.0736   
239    Kawhi Leonard           2014-15   23    -2.1    0.4     -0.061   -1.5    -0.0761   
240    Wilt Chamberlain        1961-62   25    -2.4    -2.8    -0.026           -0.0776   
241    Shaquille O'neal        1999-00   27    -0.1    -2.2    -0.059   -1.2    -0.0827   
242    Larry Bird              1979-80   23    -2.2    -2.7    -0.046   -0.2    -0.0855   
243    Karl Malone             1988-89   25    -2.3    -1.8    -0.093   -1.8    -0.0878   
244    Oscar Robertson         1965-66   27    -0.9    -3.3    -0.074           -0.0885   
245    Julius Erving           1979-80   29    -2.9    -1.5    -0.035   -0.7    -0.0892   
246    Bill Russell            1958-59   24    -1.9    -3.9    -0.024           -0.0901   
247    James Harden            2015-16   26    -3.5    -4.3    -0.098   2.2     -0.0938   
248    Charles Barkley         1992-93   29    -1      -4.4    -0.027   -0.9    -0.094    
249    Steve Nash              2001-02   27    -2      -1.7    -0.057   -0.8    -0.0955   
250    David Robinson          1992-93   27    -2.6    -4      -0.025   -0.3    -0.108    
251    Kevin Garnett           2002-03   26    -1.4    -1.4    -0.084   -1.4    -0.1145   
252    Dwyane Wade             2016-17   35    -3      -3.6    -0.027   -1.5    -0.1163   
253    Karl Malone             1994-95   31    -0.5    -4      -0.096   -0.9    -0.1185   
254    Lebron James            2014-15   30    -0.6    -9      -0.026   0.8     -0.119    
255    Scottie Pippen          1993-94   28    -0.4    -2.3    -0.045   -2.1    -0.1203   
256    Bill Russell            1963-64   29    -0.4    -5.5    -0.039           -0.1246   
257    Charles Barkley         1997-98   34    -5.4    -0.6    -0.063   -1.8    -0.1248   
258    Nikola Jokic            2021-22   26    0.3     -1.8    -0.094   -3      -0.1283   
259    Bill Russell            1957-58   23    -1.2    -4.5    -0.044           -0.1301   
260    Bill Russell            1956-57   22    -2.2    -5.2    -0.014           -0.1311   
261    Moses Malone            1983-84   28    -4.8    -1.5    -0.065   -0.9    -0.1317   
262    James Harden            2011-12   22    -0.2    -5.5    -0.046   -0.8    -0.1381   
263    George Mikan            1950-51   26            -3.2                     -0.1397   
264    Hakeem Olajuwon         1997-98   35    -2      -8.2    -0.082   1.1     -0.1399   
265    Kevin Garnett           1999-00   23    -3.1    -10.4   -0.07    1.1     -0.1483   
266    Shaquille O'neal        2006-07   34    -1.8    -3.8    -0.111   -1.7    -0.1509   
267    Scottie Pippen          1992-93   27    -2.3    -0.6    -0.049   -2      -0.1516   
268    Joel Embiid             2020-21   26    -4.1    -0.5    -0.069   0       -0.1523   
269    Moses Malone            1980-81   25    -2.7    -4.8    -0.028   -0.4    -0.1532   
270    Kobe Bryant             2001-02   23    -2.7    -3.3    -0.051   -0.3    -0.1563   
271    Steve Nash              2005-06   31    -2      -1.7    -0.059   -1.3    -0.1563   
272    Magic Johnson           1989-90   30    -1.6    -2.4    -0.048   -2.1    -0.166    
273    Patrick Ewing           1991-92   29    -2.9    -6.1    -0.031   0.3     -0.1686   
274    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1980-81   33    -3.1    -9.9    -0.071   -2.2    -0.1699   
275    Scottie Pippen          1994-95   29    -3.7    -1      -0.038   -1.6    -0.1729   
276    Wilt Chamberlain        1965-66   29    -2.3    -4.7    -0.082           -0.1746   
277    George Mikan            1952-53   28    -2.3    -2.6    -0.059           -0.1766   
278    Bob Pettit              1958-59   26    -5.3    -1.5    -0.058           -0.1805   
279    Michael Jordan          1987-88   24    -3.3    -0.5    -0.074   -0.8    -0.1808   
280    Dirk Nowitzki           2002-03   24    -2.4    1.2     -0.077   -2.2    -0.1811   
281    Joel Embiid             2018-19   24    -4.3    -3.4    -0.045   0.2     -0.183    
282    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2016-17   22    -4.2    -3.6    -0.072   -0.7    -0.1874   
283    Tim Duncan              2004-05   28    -2.1    -1.4    -0.054   -2.1    -0.1887   
284    Wilt Chamberlain        1968-69   32    -3.6    -4.6    -0.015           -0.1903   
285    James Harden            2021-22   32    -4.1    0.1     -0.04    -2.1    -0.1908   
286    David Robinson          1995-96   30    -0.3    -2      -0.076   -2.2    -0.1924   
287    Magic Johnson           1982-83   23    -2.4    -4.8    -0.051   -0.3    -0.1931   
288    Chris Paul              2017-18   32    -1.6    -3.9    -0.072   -0.5    -0.1947   
289    Jerry West              1969-70   31    -3.5    -2.2    -0.05            -0.1984   
290    Scottie Pippen          1996-97   31    -3.2    -2.8    -0.058   -0.6    -0.1989   
291    Jayson Tatum            2021-22   23    -4.2    -1.6    -0.059   -0.5    -0.1993   
292    James Harden            2012-13   23    -2.1    -5.2    -0.106   -0.3    -0.2012   
293    Hakeem Olajuwon         1989-90   27    -3.6    -6.3    -0.092   -1.9    -0.2015   
294    Tim Duncan              2003-04   27    -3      2.6     -0.066   -3.3    -0.2024   
295    Magic Johnson           1990-91   31    -2.4    -2.5    -0.058   -1.4    -0.2044   
296    Dwyane Wade             2008-09   27    -4.1    -0.9    -0.037   -3.3    -0.2049   
297    Larry Bird              1991-92   35    -4.6    -3.3    -0.09    -3.3    -0.2127   
298    Karl Malone             1987-88   24    -2.3    -3.1    -0.058   -1.4    -0.22     
299    Lebron James            2010-11   26    -3.6    -3.1    -0.046   -1      -0.221    
300    Charles Barkley         1986-87   23    -4.9    -1.1    -0.06    -4.1    -0.2225   
301    Kobe Bryant             2003-04   25    -2.7    -4.5    -0.065   -0.3    -0.2325   
302    Magic Johnson           1988-89   29    -3.5    -1.6    -0.067   -1.2    -0.2336   
303    Bob Pettit              1960-61   28    -2.9    -1.7    -0.078           -0.2374   
304    Oscar Robertson         1964-65   26    -5.9    -3.3    -0.112           -0.2409   
305    Tim Duncan              2012-13   36    -3.1    -3.1    -0.03    -2.4    -0.2465   
306    Moses Malone            1984-85   29    -4.5    -6.8    -0.033   0.6     -0.2487   
307    Stephen Curry           2014-15   26    -3.5    -3.1    -0.06    -1.1    -0.2591   
308    Karl Malone             1986-87   23    -4.6    -5.4    -0.064   -3.1    -0.2609   
309    Julius Erving           1985-86   35    -3.3    -2.9    -0.046   -2      -0.2646   
310    Wilt Chamberlain        1967-68   31    -2      -4.6    -0.064           -0.265    
311    Scottie Pippen          2000-01   35    -5.5    -5.2    -0.178   -4      -0.272    
312    Patrick Ewing           1993-94   31    -2.3    -5.6    -0.061   -0.8    -0.2729   
313    Charles Barkley         1996-97   33    -2.5    -2.4    -0.06    -2.4    -0.2742   
314    Larry Bird              1982-83   26    -3.8    -8.3    -0.091   -0.1    -0.2773   
315    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1981-82   34    -3.3    -5.8    -0.048   -0.6    -0.2774   
316    Bob Pettit              1964-65   32    -7.3    -4.8    -0.096           -0.2785   
317    Kobe Bryant             2010-11   32    -3.3    -1.2    -0.079   -1.8    -0.2806   
318    Bob Pettit              1957-58   25    -3.7    -2      -0.075           -0.2875   
319    Shaquille O'neal        1998-99   26    -1.8    -6.9    -0.079   -1.1    -0.2878   
320    Shaquille O'neal        2005-06   33    -4.5    -1.5    -0.061   -1.7    -0.2907   
321    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1977-78   30    -7.3    -6.3    -0.127   -5.6    -0.2978   
322    Tim Duncan              2007-08   31    -2.5    -5.8    -0.078   -0.3    -0.3006   
323    Kevin Garnett           2007-08   31    -2.3    -4.6    -0.066   -1.6    -0.3034   
324    Wilt Chamberlain        1966-67   30    -1.2    -9.1    -0.032           -0.3075   
325    Steve Nash              2007-08   33    -4.3    -10.3   -0.078   -1.8    -0.3127   
326    Dwyane Wade             2013-14   32    -3.5    -2.8    -0.063   -2      -0.3141   
327    Steve Nash              2006-07   32    -1.9    -7.7    -0.06    -0.7    -0.3163   
328    Karl Malone             1990-91   27    -3.4    -6      -0.071   -0.7    -0.3189   
329    Hakeem Olajuwon         1995-96   33    -5.5    -1.4    -0.087   -1.8    -0.324    
330    Jimmy Butler            2017-18   28    -6.8    -3.3    -0.1     -3.2    -0.3242   
331    Lebron James            2007-08   23    -4.8    -4.3    -0.055   -0.8    -0.3245   
332    Oscar Robertson         1971-72   33    -2.5    -7.8    -0.033           -0.3298   
333    Kevin Durant            2012-13   24    -2.3    -7.3    -0.081   0       -0.3304   
334    Joel Embiid             2017-18   23    -4.8    -5.4    -0.059   -1.5    -0.3328   
335    Stephen Curry           2013-14   25    -5.3    -1.1    -0.094   -3      -0.3364   
336    Karl Malone             1997-98   34    -3.7    -6.3    -0.075   -0.2    -0.3561   
337    Lebron James            2012-13   28    -3.5    -5.5    -0.062   -1.3    -0.357    
338    Patrick Ewing           1988-89   26    -3      -7.1    -0.043   -2.3    -0.3624   
339    Karl Malone             1995-96   32    -2.4    -7.7    -0.062   -1      -0.3626   
340    Julius Erving           1983-84   33    -7.7    -3.1    -0.109   -3.8    -0.3714   
341    Moses Malone            1990-91   35    -4.1    -16.9   -0.052   -1.4    -0.3719   
342    Wilt Chamberlain        1969-70   33    -4.5    -2.6    -0.081           -0.3819   
343    Steve Nash              2003-04   29    -5      -13     -0.07    -2.5    -0.385    
344    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1970-71   23    -3.7    -5.8    -0.055           -0.3874   
345    Stephen Curry           2022-23   34    -3.7    -6.8    -0.061   -1      -0.3875   
346    Dwyane Wade             2011-12   30    -4.3    -3.3    -0.062   -2.6    -0.4016   
347    Steve Nash              2002-03   28    -4.5    -1.1    -0.093   -2.4    -0.4045   
348    James Harden            2016-17   27    -4.4    -3      -0.088   -1.7    -0.406    
349    Tim Duncan              2010-11   34    -6.4    -3.7    -0.118   -3.3    -0.4182   
350    James Harden            2022-23   33    -3.1    -6.9    -0.077   -1.3    -0.4247   
351    James Harden            2013-14   24    -5.2    -9.9    -0.11    -1.4    -0.4254   
352    Larry Bird              1990-91   34    -3.9    -4      -0.062   -3      -0.4327   
353    Steve Nash              2000-01   26    -4.5    -5      -0.087   -1.1    -0.4364   
354    Kobe Bryant             2002-03   24    -4      -1.9    -0.079   -3.4    -0.4365   
355    John Stockton           1991-92   29    -3.4    -4.2    -0.093   -2.1    -0.4402   
356    Walt Frazier            1969-70   24    -4.6    -4.4    -0.073           -0.4402   
357    Karl Malone             2000-01   37    -5      -8.8    -0.169   -2.7    -0.4494   
358    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2022-23   28    -10.2   -8      -0.23    -6.5    -0.4503   
359    Bill Russell            1966-67   32    -3.3    -6.4    -0.088           -0.4538   
360    Charles Barkley         1989-90   26    -2.1    -7.2    -0.093   -1.8    -0.4637   
361    Patrick Ewing           1990-91   28    -13.4   -8.9    -0.204   -5.6    -0.4643   
362    Larry Bird              1981-82   25    -4.7    -8.3    -0.051   -1.2    -0.4685   
363    Jimmy Butler            2016-17   27    -5.7    -5.8    -0.12    -4      -0.4714   
364    Wilt Chamberlain        1970-71   34    -1.2    -7.9    -0.097           -0.4782   
365    Bob Pettit              1955-56   23    -5.9    -2      -0.128           -0.4798   
366    John Stockton           1994-95   32    -3.8    -10.5   -0.146   -4.7    -0.485    
367    John Stockton           1993-94   31    -2.6    -8.5    -0.07    -2.3    -0.5014   
368    Julius Erving           1974-75   24    -6.1    -5.8    -0.154   -5.9    -0.506    
369    Kobe Bryant             2005-06   27    -8.1    2.8     -0.137   -5.2    -0.5077   
370    Karl Malone             1989-90   26    -7.5    -12.1   -0.138   -2.9    -0.5258   
371    John Stockton           1999-00   37    -4      -4.3    -0.09    -3.1    -0.5258   
372    David Robinson          1997-98   32    -3.7    -8.5    -0.086   -2.2    -0.5265   
373    Larry Bird              1986-87   30    -4.6    -3.5    -0.091   -3.1    -0.5283   
374    James Harden            2018-19   29    -5.4    -4.9    -0.065   -2.9    -0.5303   
375    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2018-19   24    -4.4    -7.4    -0.073   -2      -0.5329   
376    Kevin Garnett           2010-11   34    -3.3    -9.6    -0.081   -2.3    -0.5377   
377    Nikola Jokic            2020-21   25    -1.7    -5.6    -0.12    -3.1    -0.5451   
378    David Robinson          1993-94   28    -8.7    -10.6   -0.191   -5.7    -0.5479   
379    Dwyane Wade             2012-13   31    -5.3    -7.3    -0.084   -1.3    -0.5533   
380    John Stockton           1989-90   27    -5.9    -12.5   -0.132   -5.4    -0.5689   
381    Jimmy Butler            2022-23   33    -3.6    -8.2    -0.088   -2.2    -0.5758   
382    Stephen Curry           2017-18   29    -5.9    -8.5    -0.085   -0.6    -0.5779   
383    Larry Bird              1984-85   28    -5.6    -4.9    -0.083   -2.8    -0.5793   
384    Julius Erving           1980-81   30    -4.5    -4.5    -0.114   -2.7    -0.5912   
385    Giannis Antetokounmpo   2021-22   27    -5.3    -8.1    -0.103   -0.8    -0.5973   
386    Kevin Garnett           2003-04   27    -4.4    -3.4    -0.109   -3.7    -0.6008   
387    Kevin Durant            2022-23   34    -4.8    -7.8    -0.08    -2.5    -0.6138   
388    Karl Malone             1992-93   29    -9.6    -8.4    -0.153   -6.1    -0.6316   
389    Tim Duncan              2009-10   33    -5      -3.3    -0.124   -3.3    -0.6373   
390    John Stockton           1998-99   36    -3.8    -8.4    -0.101   -2.5    -0.6439   
391    John Stockton           1995-96   33    -4.9    -9.8    -0.058   -2.9    -0.6534   
392    Dirk Nowitzki           2006-07   28    -6.7    -9.6    -0.15    -5.2    -0.6661   
393    James Harden            2017-18   28    -4.9    -7.1    -0.126   -1.8    -0.6693   
394    Karl Malone             1998-99   35    -4.4    -8.5    -0.117   -2.2    -0.696    
395    Bob Pettit              1963-64   31    -5.3    -5.2    -0.129           -0.71     
396    Larry Bird              1987-88   31    -7.6    -7      -0.092   -2.1    -0.7164   
397    David Robinson          1994-95   29    -6.5    -6.6    -0.097   -3.1    -0.731    
398    Patrick Ewing           1997-98   35    -12.6   -14.5   -0.201   -8.2    -0.7426   
399    Kevin Durant            2021-22   33    -12     -10.8   -0.224   -10.1   -0.7548   
400    Dwyane Wade             2006-07   25    -13.7   -10.4   -0.279   -8.8    -0.8033   
401    Julius Erving           1982-83   32    -7.1    -7      -0.104   -3.6    -0.8207   
402    Shaquille O'neal        2004-05   32    -8.9    -2.9    -0.122   -4.2    -0.8482   
403    Dirk Nowitzki           2004-05   26    -6      -7.3    -0.144   -3.6    -0.8855   
404    Jerry West              1971-72   33    -4.3    -10.1   -0.138           -0.8998   
405    Kevin Durant            2013-14   25    -7.2    -6.5    -0.15    -3.8    -0.94     
406    Karl Malone             1996-97   33    -6.7    -9.9    -0.141   -4.3    -1.0398   
407    Dirk Nowitzki           2013-14   35    -9.7    -12.3   -0.188   -6.3    -1.0506   
408    Jimmy Butler            2020-21   31    -16.8   -21.3   -0.319   -9.1    -1.0524   
409    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1972-73   25    -10.8   -13.3   -0.242           -1.0699   
410    Chris Paul              2011-12   26    -7      -5.6    -0.175   -5.5    -1.0739   
411    Chris Paul              2008-09   23    -13.9   -9.4    -0.327   -9.5    -1.0762   
412    Stephen Curry           2015-16   27    -9.2    -6.6    -0.166   -4.9    -1.143    
413    Kevin Durant            2015-16   27    -7.9    -9.2    -0.14    -5.9    -1.1686   
414    Joel Embiid             2021-22   27    -12.1   -2.6    -0.135   -9.1    -1.3246   
415    Joel Embiid             2022-23   28    -11.1   -9.4    -0.169   -7.3    -1.3324   
416    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar     1971-72   24    -7.5    -14.1   -0.193           -1.4556

ignoring the gargantuan outlier that is joel embiid, and also karl malone, steph finds himself lumped in way down at the bottom. i feel like he's way more james harden than people want to admit. and to the thrust of some of my earlier points, here is how it looks at his 2015-2019 peak in the 4 seasons where there was actually some threat (warriors down in series/playing competitive series):

Code: Select all

2014-15   -0.2591
2015-16   -1.143
2017-18   -0.5779
2018-19   -0.0509

that's an average of -0.508. in other words, when it wasn't the easiest, most pressure-free playoff run ever, at his peak he basically showed the same anti-resilience as massive anti-resilience outlier joel embiid. and he somehow got 2 titles and a another finals where game 7 was tied with a minute to go. so much of his ring total seems to be based on having one of the largest margins of error ever and managing to win rings even when significantly underperforming his regular season play, either because the other team got injured at just the right time (2015 cleveland/2018 rockets) or he had the most talented roster ever at his side (2016 1 minute away from winning/2018). it's such a luxury so many others didn't get.

from 2014-2023, except for 2022:
regular season: he never dipped below a PER of 24, with 3 seasons above 28 (and a 31.5).
post season: dipped below a PER of 23 (5x) more than he was above 24 (3x), with no seasons above 28 and only 1 above 25 (27.1). the one of course in 2017.

regular season: 7 seasons of 0.200 WS48 (ok, one was 0.199) or above with 3 of at least 0.267 WS48
post season: only 3 seasons that even eclipsed 0.185 WS48 and one of those was right at 0.203 WS48 (to his credit, it was 2022). only 1 up there in the 0.267 range, and it was 2017 of course.

he does a little better in BPM but still, seasons of 8.7, 9.9, and 11.9 in the regular season, and then 8.8 and 9.7 in the playoffs, with the 9.7 of course being 2017.

this is steph compared to known playoff maestro james harden. see a difference in these numbers? i really don't (average rank is the average of the rank of the individual stats). even down to them being best over their whole careers and worst at their peaks.

to me, it's hard to see him over kobe. kobe already has the longevity. he has playoff resilience. he has more absolute titles, and let's not act like playing with shaq was way easier than being on the durant warriors.

where steph's average series victory is as a +4.2 SRS favorite and his average series loss is only as a -0.1 SRS underdog, kobe's average series victory is as a paltry +1.4 SRS favorite and his average series loss as a -2.6 SRS underdog.

this isn't strictly just a shaq thing. if you don't include anything with shaq, the numbers are still only +1.9 and -3.0 for kobe. from the 2009 finals to the 2010 finals, the lakers played 5 series as an average of a 0.6 SRS favorite and won them all. that's pretty impressive.

resultantly, kobe has the actual vs expected titles advantage, and is actually pretty amazing in that regard.

kobe has 5 titles with an amazing 1.4 expected titles. his +3.6 delta is behind only people from the 60's celtics and his +254% is behind only hakeem. steph isn't terrible, but +1.4 and +51% isn't as shiny of an accomplishment. and he has a little bit of an advantage from not racking up a lot of playoff appearances on good/not great teams, where you tend to collect at least a fraction of an expected championship but with no real chance of winning one. steph just either made the playoffs with a team that could go to the finals or just missed the playoffs.

throw together the longevity on top of the playoff resiliency, both team and individual and it seems like kobe should be above steph. what i'm less clear on, and what i've been dreading, is what to do with bird. i can't very well be the playoff resiliency guy and the "actual vs expected" guy and pimp for bird, who is about even with steph in resiliency and worse in "actual vs expected" and certainly doesn't have amazing longevity. 4 years of "meh" playoffs to start his career up to 1983 and then 1987 is basically his last dominant playoffs? it's hard to ignore him showing up as a rookie and the celtics just immediately becoming a +7 SRS, 60 win team and then staying there for about a decade. it's also hard to ignore 1991, well past his prime, where the celtics are 46-14 with him (63 win pace) and 10-12 without him (37 win pace), for a nice +26 WOWY at the age of 34. that's a lot of WOWY as a rookie and out to 12 years into his career. with 8 straight top 2 MVP finishes in there. but man, playoff underperformance after playoff underperformance.

i don't know if i've posted it here, but between the ages of 23-35, larry bird had 5 playoff series with a TS% below 46. all of them were at home and he lost 4 of them, and 4 of them were during his 1981-1988 prime and he lost 3 of them, with only the 1981 finals against a sub 0.500 team being the win.

playoff series below 46 TS% between the ages of 23-35
larry bird - 5
Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Kobe, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Dirk, Malone, Barkley combined - 5

and wilt's 1 series arguably shouldn't count given the era he was playing in.

Post #26 » by **penbeast0** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 11:35 pm

Willing to listen on Giannis v. DRob and v. Durant. We always are a little slow to give full value to current players because there is still an uncertainty factor. Once a guy has a solid 8 year prime, longevity isn't as big an issue with me anymore. Giannis is a year or two short of 8, his prime didn't start until 2017 or 2018 to me which is why I haven't got him in my sights yet, but if he had two more years like last year, he'd be competing with Curry and West for this spot for me.

Post #27 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 11:52 pm

f4p wrote:so for all the people picking steph, i just want to go back to playoff resiliency again. i looked at the last project's Top 33 (just stopped at pippen due to time and less interest in the players below him) plus newer guys like jokic, giannis, embiid, and kawhi and then put in tatum and butler. i would've put in doncic but i only did ages 22-35 and doncic only had one season (though he would have led the list below).

all the data is from ages 22 to 35 and it looks at the BBRef stats PER, WS48, BPM, and TS% and compares each year to the regular season. the resilience at the end is just an average of the normalized increase/decrease for each value. +1 is a top 95% value and -1 is a bottom 6.5% value (couldn't use 5% because the lower values were so low that they were making the average season as slightly "resilient"). for playoff runs shorter than 10 games, the final value was multiplied by "Games/10" so a 5 game, 1 round playoffs would get weighed at 50%. the 2nd table is all 416 playoff runs for these guys. the 1st table is their career average (each playoff run weighed equally to essentially average your resiliency from year to year).

So, I didn't respond to this before but I think I should.

While I totally understand why you'd term this concept "resiliency", I would object.

When an opponent commits to putting great pressure on you, it's generally the right thing to do to pass. While that pass will sometimes count for an assist, in general, when the defense commits like this, they're going to knock any holistic production assessment for an individual even though he may well be playing more valuably than if he had insisted on keeping the ball and shooting.

Resistance to adaptation which can result in decreased efficacy isn't resilience so much as stubbornness.

It's not so problematic if you talk about it one stat at a time "scoring volume resiliency" "TS% resiliency", in part because it reaches for less, but when you put it all under one umbrella and then use the term you literally penalized guys for making the right call at times.

And of course those who know me probably no where I'm going with this: I think Impact Resilience is more the thing to focus on here, both because Impact is in the end what matters, and it has no preferences as to whether a guy helps his team by volume scoring, playmaking, defense, or harder to see and quantify measures.

Now as I say this, in the context of a project like this, I'm also less interested in Resilience than I often would be. How Great you are is first and foremost about what you actually do when it matters, not by how that compares to how do other times.

rk2023 · Post #28 » by **rk2023** » Tue Aug 1, 2023 11:53 pm

f4p wrote:
Spoiler:
so for all the people picking steph, i just want to go back to playoff resiliency again. i looked at the last project's Top 33 (just stopped at pippen due to time and less interest in the players below him) plus newer guys like jokic, giannis, embiid, and kawhi and then put in tatum and butler. i would've put in doncic but i only did ages 22-35 and doncic only had one season (though he would have led the list below).

all the data is from ages 22 to 35 and it looks at the BBRef stats PER, WS48, BPM, and TS% and compares each year to the regular season. the resilience at the end is just an average of the normalized increase/decrease for each value. +1 is a top 95% value and -1 is a bottom 6.5% value (couldn't use 5% because the lower values were so low that they were making the average season as slightly "resilient"). for playoff runs shorter than 10 games, the final value was multiplied by "Games/10" so a 5 game, 1 round playoffs would get weighed at 50%. the 2nd table is all 416 playoff runs for these guys. the 1st table is their career average (each playoff run weighed equally to essentially average your resiliency from year to year).

Code: Select all
Rank Player Name Career Avg 1 Kawhi Leonard 0.4561 2 Hakeem Olajuwon 0.3315 3 George Mikan 0.3246 4 Lebron James 0.2747 5 Bill Russell 0.2548 6 Walt Frazier 0.2318 7 Jerry West 0.2142 8 Michael Jordan 0.2081 9 Tim Duncan 0.166 10 Magic Johnson 0.0968 11 Scottie Pippen 0.0963 12 Oscar Robertson 0.0865 13 Kobe Bryant 0.0856 14 Charles Barkley 0.0779 15 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0.0554 16 Dirk Nowitzki 0.0534 17 Jayson Tatum 0.0247 18 Nikola Jokic 0.0205 19 Shaquille O'neal 0.0179 20 Moses Malone 0.0093 21 Dwyane Wade -0.0021 22 Chris Paul -0.0156 23 Julius Erving -0.0231 24 Jimmy Butler -0.0341 25 Wilt Chamberlain -0.0851 26 Kevin Garnett -0.1115 27 Larry Bird -0.1327 28 Kevin Durant -0.1435 29 Patrick Ewing -0.1446 30 David Robinson -0.1552 31 Steve Nash -0.1582 32 Stephen Curry -0.1613 33 Bob Pettit -0.1624 34 John Stockton -0.182 35 Giannis Antetokounmpo -0.1975 36 James Harden -0.1982 37 Karl Malone -0.2959 38 Joel Embiid -0.533

Code: Select all
Rank Player Name Season Age PER TS% WS/48 BPM Resilience 1 George Mikan 1953-54 29 4.6 7.7 0.133 1.3491 2 Tim Duncan 2005-06 29 7.3 10.2 0.065 3.6 1.2829 3 Jerry West 1960-61 22 5.3 8.5 0.09 1.2777 4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70 22 6.9 5.6 0.099 1.2741 5 Hakeem Olajuwon 1996-97 34 4.9 7 0.075 5.7 1.2296 6 Hakeem Olajuwon 1986-87 24 4.7 10.5 0.062 4 1.1957 7 Dirk Nowitzki 2008-09 30 5.3 7.1 0.067 3.5 1.0901 8 Jimmy Butler 2021-22 32 6.3 1.2 0.063 5.5 1.0544 9 Lebron James 2008-09 24 5.7 2.7 0.081 4.3 1.0482 10 Kawhi Leonard 2016-17 25 3.9 6.2 0.05 4.8 1.0369 11 Lebron James 2019-20 35 4.7 7 0.065 2.3 0.9788 12 Hakeem Olajuwon 1987-88 25 15.6 8.6 0.203 10.1 0.9464 13 Kawhi Leonard 2020-21 29 4.6 5.7 0.039 3.4 0.9338 14 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1976-77 29 4.6 3.8 0.049 2.8 0.8582 15 Scottie Pippen 1989-90 24 2.4 4.1 0.062 3.6 0.8555 16 Julius Erving 1975-76 25 3.3 4.1 0.059 3 0.8493 17 Bill Russell 1964-65 30 1.4 6.8 0.052 0.8415 18 Bill Russell 1965-66 31 2.9 6.6 0.026 0.8314 19 Dirk Nowitzki 2009-10 31 5.4 6.5 0.097 6.5 0.8056 20 George Mikan 1948-49 24 4.3 0.8001 21 Charles Barkley 1993-94 30 5 1.2 0.023 3.6 0.7728 22 Lebron James 2017-18 33 3.6 -0.2 0.048 4 0.7544 23 Michael Jordan 1994-95 31 2.7 6.4 -0.017 3.8 0.7539 24 Lebron James 2016-17 32 3.1 3 0.054 2.2 0.7401 25 Stephen Curry 2016-17 28 2.5 3.5 0.043 2.8 0.7399 26 Bill Russell 1961-62 27 3.2 3 0.04 0.7373 27 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1973-74 26 3.9 1.9 0.047 2.4 0.7334 28 Larry Bird 1983-84 27 2.1 5.5 0.021 2.7 0.7257 29 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 2.8 2.2 0.03 2.9 0.6826 30 Dwyane Wade 2015-16 34 2 1.5 0.043 3 0.6639 31 Bill Russell 1962-63 28 2.3 4.4 0.012 0.65 32 Nikola Jokic 2018-19 23 3.3 0.7 0.037 2.5 0.6474 33 Julius Erving 1976-77 26 2 2.4 0.027 2.9 0.6462 34 Oscar Robertson 1972-73 34 3.8 6.1 0.088 0.6455 35 Larry Bird 1980-81 24 1.9 0.4 0.038 3.4 0.6353 36 Kobe Bryant 2008-09 30 2.4 0.3 0.032 3.2 0.6259 37 Tim Duncan 1998-99 22 1.9 3.2 0.03 2.1 0.6253 38 Julius Erving 1978-79 28 2 3 0.038 2.8 0.6194 39 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1983-84 36 2.7 -1.6 0.043 3.3 0.6106 40 Kawhi Leonard 2018-19 27 2.1 1.3 0.025 2.9 0.6088 41 Chris Paul 2010-11 25 5.2 9.2 0.01 3.4 0.6012 42 Michael Jordan 1997-98 34 2.9 1.2 0.027 2.1 0.5951 43 Walt Frazier 1973-74 28 2.6 2.9 0.021 1.6 0.5912 44 Bill Russell 1960-61 26 3.9 0.3 0.02 0.5896 45 Jerry West 1968-69 30 2.9 -1.5 0.058 0.5818 46 James Harden 2020-21 31 -0.6 5.5 0.055 1.9 0.5791 47 Tim Duncan 2002-03 26 1.5 1.3 0.031 2.6 0.5787 48 Kevin Durant 2018-19 30 2.6 3 0.002 2.1 0.5772 49 Stephen Curry 2021-22 33 3 0.5 0.03 1.9 0.5712 50 Bill Russell 1959-60 25 1.9 0.8 0.038 0.5561 51 Jerry West 1967-68 29 1.9 0.6 0.037 0.5438 52 Hakeem Olajuwon 1985-86 23 1.4 0.6 0.045 1.9 0.5427 53 Lebron James 2015-16 31 2.5 -0.3 0.032 2 0.534 54 Kobe Bryant 2000-01 22 0.5 0.3 0.064 1.7 0.5294 55 Magic Johnson 1985-86 26 1.6 -1.1 0.041 2.6 0.529 56 Dirk Nowitzki 2003-04 25 5 0 0.097 5.7 0.5288 57 Tim Duncan 2001-02 25 4.8 -2.6 -0.01 3.8 0.5083 58 Scottie Pippen 1988-89 23 -0.5 2 0.024 2.7 0.502 59 Bob Pettit 1962-63 30 1.1 1.8 0.022 0.4983 60 Charles Barkley 1985-86 22 1.4 1.2 0.013 2.1 0.4927 61 Kobe Bryant 2011-12 33 2.5 -0.2 0.011 2.1 0.4894 62 Jerry West 1962-63 24 1.2 2.5 0.008 0.487 63 Moses Malone 1982-83 27 0.6 0.9 0.012 2.7 0.4829 64 Luka Doncic 2021-22 22 3.5 0.6 0.005 1.1 0.4812 65 Walt Frazier 1974-75 29 7.4 13.5 0.09 5.3 0.471 66 Lebron James 2013-14 29 1.7 1.9 0.005 1.5 0.4704 67 Jimmy Butler 2018-19 29 0.9 -0.7 0.022 2.5 0.456 68 Walt Frazier 1970-71 25 0.7 1.6 0.019 0.4555 69 Shaquille O'neal 1995-96 23 1 0.5 -0.015 3.1 0.4429 70 Shaquille O'neal 1997-98 25 2.2 1.7 -0.024 2 0.4427 71 Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94 31 2.4 0.3 -0.002 1.7 0.4426 72 Chris Paul 2015-16 30 7 0 0.069 6.1 0.4396 73 Dwyane Wade 2009-10 28 1.4 8.8 0.005 4.3 0.4325 74 Kevin Durant 2011-12 23 1.3 2.2 0.001 1.1 0.427 75 Michael Jordan 1990-91 27 0.4 -0.5 0.012 2.6 0.4211 76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1979-80 32 2.6 -2.8 0.026 1.7 0.4206 77 Tim Duncan 2013-14 37 -0.2 3.3 0.04 -0.2 0.4156 78 Kawhi Leonard 2015-16 24 2.6 -1.9 -0.006 2.4 0.4123 79 Magic Johnson 1981-82 22 -0.4 2.4 0.024 1 0.4117 80 John Stockton 1986-87 24 -0.8 14.5 0.026 0.8 0.3948 81 Kevin Durant 2016-17 28 -0.1 3.2 0.002 1 0.3947 82 Larry Bird 1985-86 29 -1.7 3.5 0.019 1.2 0.3907 83 Scottie Pippen 1990-91 25 1.4 0.3 0.018 0.7 0.3866 84 Moses Malone 1988-89 33 2.9 2.6 0.03 3.8 0.3788 85 Wilt Chamberlain 1964-65 28 -1.5 3.9 0.003 0.373 86 Tim Duncan 2011-12 35 0.4 -0.2 0.01 1.7 0.3687 87 Dwyane Wade 2004-05 23 1.2 0 0.003 1.3 0.3672 88 Walt Frazier 1972-73 27 0 2.5 -0.007 0.3647 89 Chris Paul 2007-08 22 2.4 -1.1 0.005 0.9 0.3632 90 Kevin Durant 2010-11 22 0.5 -0.7 0.028 1 0.3585 91 Michael Jordan 1989-90 26 0.5 -1.4 -0.001 2.5 0.3555 92 Jerry West 1961-62 23 -0.7 2 0.008 0.353 93 Scottie Pippen 1999-00 34 1.1 -1.1 0.003 1.7 0.3515 94 Dwyane Wade 2005-06 24 -0.7 1.6 0.001 1.6 0.3505 95 Charles Barkley 1998-99 35 5.9 3.3 0.023 3.4 0.3479 96 Tim Duncan 2000-01 24 1.6 -0.5 -0.027 2.2 0.3478 97 Shaquille O'neal 1996-97 24 1.9 -0.4 0.018 0.7 0.3468 98 Kevin Garnett 2000-01 24 1 3.8 0.079 4.1 0.3437 99 Jimmy Butler 2019-20 30 0.2 3.1 -0.012 0.5 0.3367 100 Karl Malone 1993-94 30 1.7 -1.9 0.016 0.9 0.3341 101 Steve Nash 2009-10 35 0.8 1.9 -0.003 0.3 0.3337 102 Magic Johnson 1987-88 28 -0.2 1.9 -0.001 0.9 0.3329 103 Walt Frazier 1971-72 26 -0.1 1 0.004 0.3301 104 Dwyane Wade 2010-11 29 0.7 -1.1 -0.002 1.8 0.3273 105 Oscar Robertson 1970-71 32 1.5 -3 0.027 0.3258 106 Kevin Durant 2020-21 32 0.5 -3.6 0.008 2.8 0.3245 107 Kawhi Leonard 2019-20 28 0.9 0.4 0.002 0.5 0.3138 108 Dirk Nowitzki 2010-11 32 1.8 -0.3 -0.003 0.4 0.3109 109 Oscar Robertson 1973-74 35 0.9 0.1 -0.007 0.9 0.306 110 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1978-79 31 1 2.4 0.003 0.4 0.3049 111 Chris Paul 2014-15 29 -0.3 3.1 -0.022 0.7 0.3015 112 Chris Paul 2012-13 27 2.8 3.9 -0.02 0.9 0.2897 113 Kobe Bryant 2007-08 29 0.8 0.1 -0.03 1.6 0.2866 114 Charles Barkley 1994-95 31 1.4 0.8 -0.008 -0.1 0.2852 115 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2017-18 23 -0.7 2.2 0.032 0.9 0.2843 116 Wilt Chamberlain 1963-64 27 -0.3 0.6 -0.002 0.2798 117 Karl Malone 1991-92 28 -0.4 1.9 -0.017 0.8 0.2763 118 Shaquille O'neal 2003-04 31 0.4 -1.3 0.01 0.7 0.2685 119 Shaquille O'neal 2002-03 30 1.1 -3.2 -0.01 1.9 0.2606 120 John Stockton 1990-91 28 -1.6 4 -0.009 0.4 0.2597 121 Jerry West 1965-66 27 0.1 0.8 -0.019 0.2537 122 Patrick Ewing 1992-93 30 0.8 -1.1 -0.015 1.1 0.2536 123 Moses Malone 1979-80 24 0.8 1.7 -0.024 1.5 0.2443 124 Kawhi Leonard 2022-23 31 6 4.7 0.033 7.7 0.244 125 Magic Johnson 1986-87 27 -0.8 0.5 0.002 0.5 0.2421 126 Hakeem Olajuwon 1992-93 30 -0.6 -0.9 -0.013 1.6 0.2354 127 Michael Jordan 1992-93 29 0.4 -1.1 0 0.4 0.2302 128 David Robinson 1990-91 25 -1.3 14.5 -0.03 0 0.2288 129 Dirk Nowitzki 2005-06 27 -1.3 0.7 -0.012 1.1 0.2286 130 Jayson Tatum 2020-21 22 2.8 0.1 -0.023 2.6 0.2283 131 Dwyane Wade 2003-04 22 0.1 -0.3 0.001 0.1 0.2271 132 Magic Johnson 1983-84 24 0.2 -2.7 0.007 1 0.2243 133 Dirk Nowitzki 2007-08 29 1.7 0.3 -0.027 3 0.2149 134 Bob Pettit 1959-60 27 -0.4 0.5 -0.019 0.2109 135 George Mikan 1951-52 27 1 1.8 -0.062 0.2029 136 Tim Duncan 2008-09 32 2.9 0.5 -0.02 1.3 0.1997 137 Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60 23 -1.1 0.5 -0.004 0.1993 138 Chris Paul 2016-17 31 1.6 -2.2 -0.018 1.7 0.1979 139 Michael Jordan 1985-86 22 2.6 5.1 0.001 2.2 0.1953 140 John Stockton 1985-86 23 0.2 7.8 0.008 -0.6 0.19 141 Jimmy Butler 2014-15 25 -0.5 -2.1 -0.011 1.2 0.1796 142 Steve Nash 2004-05 30 1.4 -0.2 -0.039 0 0.1781 143 Kawhi Leonard 2013-14 22 -0.7 0.4 -0.002 -0.4 0.1756 144 Kevin Garnett 1998-99 22 1.7 -0.5 -0.011 2.8 0.1727 145 Nikola Jokic 2019-20 24 -0.1 0.9 -0.03 0 0.1718 146 Charles Barkley 1995-96 32 2.7 -2.3 0.006 2.3 0.1712 147 James Harden 2019-20 30 -1.6 1 -0.001 -0.2 0.1712 148 David Robinson 2000-01 35 0.8 -2.1 -0.039 1.3 0.1709 149 Julius Erving 1973-74 23 -1.7 0.8 0.014 -0.7 0.1671 150 John Stockton 1996-97 34 0.6 -2.9 -0.025 1.2 0.1653 151 Tim Duncan 2006-07 30 1.3 -2.3 -0.016 -0.1 0.1568 152 Walt Frazier 1968-69 23 1.1 -3.5 -0.009 0.156 153 John Stockton 1988-89 26 3 -2.3 -0.006 3.7 0.1498 154 Hakeem Olajuwon 1990-91 28 -1.1 8 0.001 0.8 0.1486 155 Oscar Robertson 1961-62 23 -0.6 3.2 -0.004 0.1483 156 George Mikan 1949-50 25 -0.6 0.147 157 Kevin Durant 2017-18 29 -0.9 -3.4 0.022 0.3 0.1467 158 Hakeem Olajuwon 1994-95 32 0.7 -0.3 -0.038 0 0.1465 159 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1982-83 35 -0.8 -1.1 -0.033 1.1 0.1364 160 Jerry West 1963-64 25 0.9 0.2 -0.022 0.1319 161 Dirk Nowitzki 2001-02 23 0.7 -2.2 -0.029 0.9 0.1309 162 David Robinson 1998-99 33 -1.6 -0.1 -0.018 0.4 0.1287 163 Joel Embiid 2019-20 25 0.8 1 -0.027 1.5 0.1272 164 Julius Erving 1977-78 27 -0.5 -2.2 -0.008 0.2 0.1204 165 Dirk Nowitzki 2000-01 22 -0.5 -2.8 -0.018 0.9 0.1191 166 Patrick Ewing 1996-97 34 -0.3 -0.1 -0.035 0.1 0.1108 167 Chris Paul 2020-21 35 -0.7 -1.5 -0.023 0.4 0.1089 168 Bill Russell 1967-68 33 -0.3 -0.3 -0.042 0.102 169 Oscar Robertson 1962-63 24 0.1 -1.4 -0.035 0.1008 170 Shaquille O'neal 2007-08 35 1.8 -10.3 0.024 2.8 0.1 171 Kevin Garnett 2011-12 35 0.1 -0.9 -0.029 -0.4 0.0978 172 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1984-85 37 -0.8 -2.6 -0.01 0.3 0.095 173 Scottie Pippen 1991-92 26 -1.4 -1.1 -0.024 0.5 0.095 174 George Mikan 1955-56 31 0.4 -1.3 0.016 0.0896 175 Shaquille O'neal 2000-01 28 -1.5 -1 0.015 -1.2 0.0867 176 Michael Jordan 1988-89 25 -1.2 -1.2 -0.022 0.2 0.0866 177 Jimmy Butler 2012-13 23 -0.8 0.1 -0.053 0.5 0.0866 178 Hakeem Olajuwon 1988-89 26 -1.1 -0.3 -0.015 1.4 0.0862 179 Jerry West 1972-73 34 -0.5 -2.1 -0.022 0.0792 180 Lebron James 2006-07 22 -0.6 -3.6 -0.006 0 0.0618 181 Charles Barkley 1988-89 25 -2.7 3.8 -0.037 0.9 0.0578 182 Patrick Ewing 1995-96 33 -2.8 0.6 -0.039 0.8 0.0561 183 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2019-20 25 -0.6 -0.3 -0.041 -0.3 0.056 184 Julius Erving 1972-73 22 -2.8 2.4 -0.034 0.0512 185 Dirk Nowitzki 2011-12 33 0.8 -0.4 -0.036 -0.5 0.0484 186 Lebron James 2011-12 27 -0.4 -2.9 -0.014 -0.4 0.0479 187 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2020-21 26 -1.6 -3.4 -0.02 0.9 0.0453 188 Jayson Tatum 2022-23 24 -1.1 -2.2 -0.017 -0.2 0.0452 189 Scottie Pippen 1997-98 32 -0.9 -3.3 -0.027 0.6 0.0424 190 Oscar Robertson 1966-67 28 -2.6 3.4 -0.051 0.04 191 Michael Jordan 1991-92 28 -0.5 -0.8 -0.058 0.2 0.0378 192 Michael Jordan 1995-96 32 -2.7 -1.8 -0.011 0.2 0.0288 193 Wilt Chamberlain 1960-61 24 -1.1 -2.7 -0.001 0.0269 194 John Stockton 1987-88 25 -0.7 -2.7 -0.037 0.3 0.0263 195 Magic Johnson 1984-85 25 -0.9 -3.8 -0.01 -0.1 0.0252 196 Moses Malone 1978-79 23 5 -10.3 -0.034 1.7 0.0243 197 Karl Malone 1999-00 36 -1.3 0.2 -0.055 -0.2 0.0181 198 David Robinson 1999-00 34 1 -10.5 -0.018 2.6 0.0147 199 Steve Nash 1997-98 23 0.9 -4.5 -0.056 1 0.0129 200 Patrick Ewing 1994-95 32 -3 0.4 -0.006 -1.2 0.0128 201 David Robinson 1989-90 24 -1.9 -1.6 -0.022 -0.3 0.0106 202 Bob Pettit 1956-57 24 -3.2 1 -0.038 0.0028 203 Kevin Garnett 2001-02 25 1.7 -2.2 -0.073 -0.5 0.0015 204 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85 22 -1.4 -7.4 -0.008 1.7 0.0014 205 Jerry West 1966-67 28 -4.6 0 -0.2 0 206 Patrick Ewing 1987-88 25 -1.2 -3.2 -0.034 0.2 -0.0044 207 Shaquille O'neal 2001-02 29 -1.4 -2.1 -0.026 -0.5 -0.007 208 Stephen Curry 2012-13 24 -0.8 -3.1 -0.019 -0.7 -0.0085 209 Patrick Ewing 1989-90 27 -0.4 -2 -0.05 -0.3 -0.0088 210 Michael Jordan 1996-97 33 -0.7 -4.3 -0.048 1 -0.0109 211 Charles Barkley 1990-91 27 -2.1 -0.5 -0.041 -0.4 -0.0136 212 Michael Jordan 1986-87 23 -1.7 -3.3 -0.082 1.9 -0.0157 213 Scottie Pippen 1998-99 33 1.9 -8.2 -0.035 0.2 -0.0173 214 Wilt Chamberlain 1971-72 35 -0.7 -4.8 -0.014 -0.025 215 John Stockton 1992-93 30 -2.7 -2.4 -0.032 0.1 -0.0259 216 Kevin Garnett 2009-10 33 -1.8 -3.9 -0.023 0.3 -0.0261 217 Jimmy Butler 2013-14 24 -2.1 -1.5 -0.035 -0.8 -0.0301 218 Shaquille O'neal 1994-95 22 -2.5 0.7 -0.05 -0.6 -0.0307 219 Moses Malone 1987-88 32 -2.9 -1.4 -0.038 -0.3 -0.0341 220 Moses Malone 1986-87 31 -4.5 0.6 -0.073 0.4 -0.0355 221 Chris Paul 2019-20 34 -2.4 -0.6 -0.052 -0.3 -0.039 222 Jerry West 1964-65 26 1.7 -3.8 -0.072 -0.0392 223 Oscar Robertson 1963-64 25 -2.9 -0.8 -0.033 -0.0423 224 Lebron James 2009-10 25 -2.5 0.3 -0.057 -0.3 -0.043 225 Larry Bird 1989-90 33 -1.2 -0.7 -0.051 -1.6 -0.043 226 Nikola Jokic 2022-23 27 -0.3 -7 -0.003 -0.2 -0.0432 227 Scottie Pippen 1995-96 30 -1.6 -7.8 -0.014 1.5 -0.0476 228 Chris Paul 2013-14 28 -2.3 0.3 -0.075 0.2 -0.049 229 James Harden 2014-15 25 -1.9 1.5 -0.063 -1.2 -0.0493 230 Stephen Curry 2018-19 30 -1.8 -2.1 -0.014 -1.4 -0.0509 231 Moses Malone 1981-82 26 -2.5 -8.7 -0.035 1.4 -0.0534 232 Kobe Bryant 2006-07 28 -2 -1.9 -0.078 0.2 -0.0584 233 Julius Erving 1981-82 31 -3.4 -1.2 -0.044 0.3 -0.061 234 Bill Russell 1968-69 34 0.1 -1.9 -0.077 -0.0662 235 Chris Paul 2018-19 33 -2.1 -0.3 -0.04 -1.4 -0.0713 236 John Stockton 1997-98 35 -1.8 -5.9 -0.027 0.8 -0.0713 237 Julius Erving 1984-85 34 -3.1 -2.9 -0.027 0.1 -0.0732 238 Walt Frazier 1967-68 22 -1.8 -3.2 -0.062 -0.0736 239 Kawhi Leonard 2014-15 23 -2.1 0.4 -0.061 -1.5 -0.0761 240 Wilt Chamberlain 1961-62 25 -2.4 -2.8 -0.026 -0.0776 241 Shaquille O'neal 1999-00 27 -0.1 -2.2 -0.059 -1.2 -0.0827 242 Larry Bird 1979-80 23 -2.2 -2.7 -0.046 -0.2 -0.0855 243 Karl Malone 1988-89 25 -2.3 -1.8 -0.093 -1.8 -0.0878 244 Oscar Robertson 1965-66 27 -0.9 -3.3 -0.074 -0.0885 245 Julius Erving 1979-80 29 -2.9 -1.5 -0.035 -0.7 -0.0892 246 Bill Russell 1958-59 24 -1.9 -3.9 -0.024 -0.0901 247 James Harden 2015-16 26 -3.5 -4.3 -0.098 2.2 -0.0938 248 Charles Barkley 1992-93 29 -1 -4.4 -0.027 -0.9 -0.094 249 Steve Nash 2001-02 27 -2 -1.7 -0.057 -0.8 -0.0955 250 David Robinson 1992-93 27 -2.6 -4 -0.025 -0.3 -0.108 251 Kevin Garnett 2002-03 26 -1.4 -1.4 -0.084 -1.4 -0.1145 252 Dwyane Wade 2016-17 35 -3 -3.6 -0.027 -1.5 -0.1163 253 Karl Malone 1994-95 31 -0.5 -4 -0.096 -0.9 -0.1185 254 Lebron James 2014-15 30 -0.6 -9 -0.026 0.8 -0.119 255 Scottie Pippen 1993-94 28 -0.4 -2.3 -0.045 -2.1 -0.1203 256 Bill Russell 1963-64 29 -0.4 -5.5 -0.039 -0.1246 257 Charles Barkley 1997-98 34 -5.4 -0.6 -0.063 -1.8 -0.1248 258 Nikola Jokic 2021-22 26 0.3 -1.8 -0.094 -3 -0.1283 259 Bill Russell 1957-58 23 -1.2 -4.5 -0.044 -0.1301 260 Bill Russell 1956-57 22 -2.2 -5.2 -0.014 -0.1311 261 Moses Malone 1983-84 28 -4.8 -1.5 -0.065 -0.9 -0.1317 262 James Harden 2011-12 22 -0.2 -5.5 -0.046 -0.8 -0.1381 263 George Mikan 1950-51 26 -3.2 -0.1397 264 Hakeem Olajuwon 1997-98 35 -2 -8.2 -0.082 1.1 -0.1399 265 Kevin Garnett 1999-00 23 -3.1 -10.4 -0.07 1.1 -0.1483 266 Shaquille O'neal 2006-07 34 -1.8 -3.8 -0.111 -1.7 -0.1509 267 Scottie Pippen 1992-93 27 -2.3 -0.6 -0.049 -2 -0.1516 268 Joel Embiid 2020-21 26 -4.1 -0.5 -0.069 0 -0.1523 269 Moses Malone 1980-81 25 -2.7 -4.8 -0.028 -0.4 -0.1532 270 Kobe Bryant 2001-02 23 -2.7 -3.3 -0.051 -0.3 -0.1563 271 Steve Nash 2005-06 31 -2 -1.7 -0.059 -1.3 -0.1563 272 Magic Johnson 1989-90 30 -1.6 -2.4 -0.048 -2.1 -0.166 273 Patrick Ewing 1991-92 29 -2.9 -6.1 -0.031 0.3 -0.1686 274 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1980-81 33 -3.1 -9.9 -0.071 -2.2 -0.1699 275 Scottie Pippen 1994-95 29 -3.7 -1 -0.038 -1.6 -0.1729 276 Wilt Chamberlain 1965-66 29 -2.3 -4.7 -0.082 -0.1746 277 George Mikan 1952-53 28 -2.3 -2.6 -0.059 -0.1766 278 Bob Pettit 1958-59 26 -5.3 -1.5 -0.058 -0.1805 279 Michael Jordan 1987-88 24 -3.3 -0.5 -0.074 -0.8 -0.1808 280 Dirk Nowitzki 2002-03 24 -2.4 1.2 -0.077 -2.2 -0.1811 281 Joel Embiid 2018-19 24 -4.3 -3.4 -0.045 0.2 -0.183 282 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2016-17 22 -4.2 -3.6 -0.072 -0.7 -0.1874 283 Tim Duncan 2004-05 28 -2.1 -1.4 -0.054 -2.1 -0.1887 284 Wilt Chamberlain 1968-69 32 -3.6 -4.6 -0.015 -0.1903 285 James Harden 2021-22 32 -4.1 0.1 -0.04 -2.1 -0.1908 286 David Robinson 1995-96 30 -0.3 -2 -0.076 -2.2 -0.1924 287 Magic Johnson 1982-83 23 -2.4 -4.8 -0.051 -0.3 -0.1931 288 Chris Paul 2017-18 32 -1.6 -3.9 -0.072 -0.5 -0.1947 289 Jerry West 1969-70 31 -3.5 -2.2 -0.05 -0.1984 290 Scottie Pippen 1996-97 31 -3.2 -2.8 -0.058 -0.6 -0.1989 291 Jayson Tatum 2021-22 23 -4.2 -1.6 -0.059 -0.5 -0.1993 292 James Harden 2012-13 23 -2.1 -5.2 -0.106 -0.3 -0.2012 293 Hakeem Olajuwon 1989-90 27 -3.6 -6.3 -0.092 -1.9 -0.2015 294 Tim Duncan 2003-04 27 -3 2.6 -0.066 -3.3 -0.2024 295 Magic Johnson 1990-91 31 -2.4 -2.5 -0.058 -1.4 -0.2044 296 Dwyane Wade 2008-09 27 -4.1 -0.9 -0.037 -3.3 -0.2049 297 Larry Bird 1991-92 35 -4.6 -3.3 -0.09 -3.3 -0.2127 298 Karl Malone 1987-88 24 -2.3 -3.1 -0.058 -1.4 -0.22 299 Lebron James 2010-11 26 -3.6 -3.1 -0.046 -1 -0.221 300 Charles Barkley 1986-87 23 -4.9 -1.1 -0.06 -4.1 -0.2225 301 Kobe Bryant 2003-04 25 -2.7 -4.5 -0.065 -0.3 -0.2325 302 Magic Johnson 1988-89 29 -3.5 -1.6 -0.067 -1.2 -0.2336 303 Bob Pettit 1960-61 28 -2.9 -1.7 -0.078 -0.2374 304 Oscar Robertson 1964-65 26 -5.9 -3.3 -0.112 -0.2409 305 Tim Duncan 2012-13 36 -3.1 -3.1 -0.03 -2.4 -0.2465 306 Moses Malone 1984-85 29 -4.5 -6.8 -0.033 0.6 -0.2487 307 Stephen Curry 2014-15 26 -3.5 -3.1 -0.06 -1.1 -0.2591 308 Karl Malone 1986-87 23 -4.6 -5.4 -0.064 -3.1 -0.2609 309 Julius Erving 1985-86 35 -3.3 -2.9 -0.046 -2 -0.2646 310 Wilt Chamberlain 1967-68 31 -2 -4.6 -0.064 -0.265 311 Scottie Pippen 2000-01 35 -5.5 -5.2 -0.178 -4 -0.272 312 Patrick Ewing 1993-94 31 -2.3 -5.6 -0.061 -0.8 -0.2729 313 Charles Barkley 1996-97 33 -2.5 -2.4 -0.06 -2.4 -0.2742 314 Larry Bird 1982-83 26 -3.8 -8.3 -0.091 -0.1 -0.2773 315 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1981-82 34 -3.3 -5.8 -0.048 -0.6 -0.2774 316 Bob Pettit 1964-65 32 -7.3 -4.8 -0.096 -0.2785 317 Kobe Bryant 2010-11 32 -3.3 -1.2 -0.079 -1.8 -0.2806 318 Bob Pettit 1957-58 25 -3.7 -2 -0.075 -0.2875 319 Shaquille O'neal 1998-99 26 -1.8 -6.9 -0.079 -1.1 -0.2878 320 Shaquille O'neal 2005-06 33 -4.5 -1.5 -0.061 -1.7 -0.2907 321 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1977-78 30 -7.3 -6.3 -0.127 -5.6 -0.2978 322 Tim Duncan 2007-08 31 -2.5 -5.8 -0.078 -0.3 -0.3006 323 Kevin Garnett 2007-08 31 -2.3 -4.6 -0.066 -1.6 -0.3034 324 Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67 30 -1.2 -9.1 -0.032 -0.3075 325 Steve Nash 2007-08 33 -4.3 -10.3 -0.078 -1.8 -0.3127 326 Dwyane Wade 2013-14 32 -3.5 -2.8 -0.063 -2 -0.3141 327 Steve Nash 2006-07 32 -1.9 -7.7 -0.06 -0.7 -0.3163 328 Karl Malone 1990-91 27 -3.4 -6 -0.071 -0.7 -0.3189 329 Hakeem Olajuwon 1995-96 33 -5.5 -1.4 -0.087 -1.8 -0.324 330 Jimmy Butler 2017-18 28 -6.8 -3.3 -0.1 -3.2 -0.3242 331 Lebron James 2007-08 23 -4.8 -4.3 -0.055 -0.8 -0.3245 332 Oscar Robertson 1971-72 33 -2.5 -7.8 -0.033 -0.3298 333 Kevin Durant 2012-13 24 -2.3 -7.3 -0.081 0 -0.3304 334 Joel Embiid 2017-18 23 -4.8 -5.4 -0.059 -1.5 -0.3328 335 Stephen Curry 2013-14 25 -5.3 -1.1 -0.094 -3 -0.3364 336 Karl Malone 1997-98 34 -3.7 -6.3 -0.075 -0.2 -0.3561 337 Lebron James 2012-13 28 -3.5 -5.5 -0.062 -1.3 -0.357 338 Patrick Ewing 1988-89 26 -3 -7.1 -0.043 -2.3 -0.3624 339 Karl Malone 1995-96 32 -2.4 -7.7 -0.062 -1 -0.3626 340 Julius Erving 1983-84 33 -7.7 -3.1 -0.109 -3.8 -0.3714 341 Moses Malone 1990-91 35 -4.1 -16.9 -0.052 -1.4 -0.3719 342 Wilt Chamberlain 1969-70 33 -4.5 -2.6 -0.081 -0.3819 343 Steve Nash 2003-04 29 -5 -13 -0.07 -2.5 -0.385 344 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1970-71 23 -3.7 -5.8 -0.055 -0.3874 345 Stephen Curry 2022-23 34 -3.7 -6.8 -0.061 -1 -0.3875 346 Dwyane Wade 2011-12 30 -4.3 -3.3 -0.062 -2.6 -0.4016 347 Steve Nash 2002-03 28 -4.5 -1.1 -0.093 -2.4 -0.4045 348 James Harden 2016-17 27 -4.4 -3 -0.088 -1.7 -0.406 349 Tim Duncan 2010-11 34 -6.4 -3.7 -0.118 -3.3 -0.4182 350 James Harden 2022-23 33 -3.1 -6.9 -0.077 -1.3 -0.4247 351 James Harden 2013-14 24 -5.2 -9.9 -0.11 -1.4 -0.4254 352 Larry Bird 1990-91 34 -3.9 -4 -0.062 -3 -0.4327 353 Steve Nash 2000-01 26 -4.5 -5 -0.087 -1.1 -0.4364 354 Kobe Bryant 2002-03 24 -4 -1.9 -0.079 -3.4 -0.4365 355 John Stockton 1991-92 29 -3.4 -4.2 -0.093 -2.1 -0.4402 356 Walt Frazier 1969-70 24 -4.6 -4.4 -0.073 -0.4402 357 Karl Malone 2000-01 37 -5 -8.8 -0.169 -2.7 -0.4494 358 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2022-23 28 -10.2 -8 -0.23 -6.5 -0.4503 359 Bill Russell 1966-67 32 -3.3 -6.4 -0.088 -0.4538 360 Charles Barkley 1989-90 26 -2.1 -7.2 -0.093 -1.8 -0.4637 361 Patrick Ewing 1990-91 28 -13.4 -8.9 -0.204 -5.6 -0.4643 362 Larry Bird 1981-82 25 -4.7 -8.3 -0.051 -1.2 -0.4685 363 Jimmy Butler 2016-17 27 -5.7 -5.8 -0.12 -4 -0.4714 364 Wilt Chamberlain 1970-71 34 -1.2 -7.9 -0.097 -0.4782 365 Bob Pettit 1955-56 23 -5.9 -2 -0.128 -0.4798 366 John Stockton 1994-95 32 -3.8 -10.5 -0.146 -4.7 -0.485 367 John Stockton 1993-94 31 -2.6 -8.5 -0.07 -2.3 -0.5014 368 Julius Erving 1974-75 24 -6.1 -5.8 -0.154 -5.9 -0.506 369 Kobe Bryant 2005-06 27 -8.1 2.8 -0.137 -5.2 -0.5077 370 Karl Malone 1989-90 26 -7.5 -12.1 -0.138 -2.9 -0.5258 371 John Stockton 1999-00 37 -4 -4.3 -0.09 -3.1 -0.5258 372 David Robinson 1997-98 32 -3.7 -8.5 -0.086 -2.2 -0.5265 373 Larry Bird 1986-87 30 -4.6 -3.5 -0.091 -3.1 -0.5283 374 James Harden 2018-19 29 -5.4 -4.9 -0.065 -2.9 -0.5303 375 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2018-19 24 -4.4 -7.4 -0.073 -2 -0.5329 376 Kevin Garnett 2010-11 34 -3.3 -9.6 -0.081 -2.3 -0.5377 377 Nikola Jokic 2020-21 25 -1.7 -5.6 -0.12 -3.1 -0.5451 378 David Robinson 1993-94 28 -8.7 -10.6 -0.191 -5.7 -0.5479 379 Dwyane Wade 2012-13 31 -5.3 -7.3 -0.084 -1.3 -0.5533 380 John Stockton 1989-90 27 -5.9 -12.5 -0.132 -5.4 -0.5689 381 Jimmy Butler 2022-23 33 -3.6 -8.2 -0.088 -2.2 -0.5758 382 Stephen Curry 2017-18 29 -5.9 -8.5 -0.085 -0.6 -0.5779 383 Larry Bird 1984-85 28 -5.6 -4.9 -0.083 -2.8 -0.5793 384 Julius Erving 1980-81 30 -4.5 -4.5 -0.114 -2.7 -0.5912 385 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2021-22 27 -5.3 -8.1 -0.103 -0.8 -0.5973 386 Kevin Garnett 2003-04 27 -4.4 -3.4 -0.109 -3.7 -0.6008 387 Kevin Durant 2022-23 34 -4.8 -7.8 -0.08 -2.5 -0.6138 388 Karl Malone 1992-93 29 -9.6 -8.4 -0.153 -6.1 -0.6316 389 Tim Duncan 2009-10 33 -5 -3.3 -0.124 -3.3 -0.6373 390 John Stockton 1998-99 36 -3.8 -8.4 -0.101 -2.5 -0.6439 391 John Stockton 1995-96 33 -4.9 -9.8 -0.058 -2.9 -0.6534 392 Dirk Nowitzki 2006-07 28 -6.7 -9.6 -0.15 -5.2 -0.6661 393 James Harden 2017-18 28 -4.9 -7.1 -0.126 -1.8 -0.6693 394 Karl Malone 1998-99 35 -4.4 -8.5 -0.117 -2.2 -0.696 395 Bob Pettit 1963-64 31 -5.3 -5.2 -0.129 -0.71 396 Larry Bird 1987-88 31 -7.6 -7 -0.092 -2.1 -0.7164 397 David Robinson 1994-95 29 -6.5 -6.6 -0.097 -3.1 -0.731 398 Patrick Ewing 1997-98 35 -12.6 -14.5 -0.201 -8.2 -0.7426 399 Kevin Durant 2021-22 33 -12 -10.8 -0.224 -10.1 -0.7548 400 Dwyane Wade 2006-07 25 -13.7 -10.4 -0.279 -8.8 -0.8033 401 Julius Erving 1982-83 32 -7.1 -7 -0.104 -3.6 -0.8207 402 Shaquille O'neal 2004-05 32 -8.9 -2.9 -0.122 -4.2 -0.8482 403 Dirk Nowitzki 2004-05 26 -6 -7.3 -0.144 -3.6 -0.8855 404 Jerry West 1971-72 33 -4.3 -10.1 -0.138 -0.8998 405 Kevin Durant 2013-14 25 -7.2 -6.5 -0.15 -3.8 -0.94 406 Karl Malone 1996-97 33 -6.7 -9.9 -0.141 -4.3 -1.0398 407 Dirk Nowitzki 2013-14 35 -9.7 -12.3 -0.188 -6.3 -1.0506 408 Jimmy Butler 2020-21 31 -16.8 -21.3 -0.319 -9.1 -1.0524 409 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1972-73 25 -10.8 -13.3 -0.242 -1.0699 410 Chris Paul 2011-12 26 -7 -5.6 -0.175 -5.5 -1.0739 411 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 -13.9 -9.4 -0.327 -9.5 -1.0762 412 Stephen Curry 2015-16 27 -9.2 -6.6 -0.166 -4.9 -1.143 413 Kevin Durant 2015-16 27 -7.9 -9.2 -0.14 -5.9 -1.1686 414 Joel Embiid 2021-22 27 -12.1 -2.6 -0.135 -9.1 -1.3246 415 Joel Embiid 2022-23 28 -11.1 -9.4 -0.169 -7.3 -1.3324 416 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1971-72 24 -7.5 -14.1 -0.193 -1.4556

ignoring the gargantuan outlier that is joel embiid, and also karl malone, steph finds himself lumped in way down at the bottom. i feel like he's way more james harden than people want to admit. and to the thrust of some of my earlier points, here is how it looks at his 2015-2019 peak in the 4 seasons where there was actually some threat (warriors down in series/playing competitive series):

Code: Select all
2014-15 -0.2591 2015-16 -1.143 2017-18 -0.5779 2018-19 -0.0509

that's an average of -0.508. in other words, when it wasn't the easiest, most pressure-free playoff run ever, at his peak he basically showed the same anti-resilience as massive anti-resilience outlier joel embiid. and he somehow got 2 titles and a another finals where game 7 was tied with a minute to go. so much of his ring total seems to be based on having one of the largest margins of error ever and managing to win rings even when significantly underperforming his regular season play, either because the other team got injured at just the right time (2015 cleveland/2018 rockets) or he had the most talented roster ever at his side (2016 1 minute away from winning/2018). it's such a luxury so many others didn't get.

from 2014-2023, except for 2022:
regular season: he never dipped below a PER of 24, with 3 seasons above 28 (and a 31.5).
post season: dipped below a PER of 23 (5x) more than he was above 24 (3x), with no seasons above 28 and only 1 above 25 (27.1). the one of course in 2017.

regular season: 7 seasons of 0.200 WS48 (ok, one was 0.199) or above with 3 of at least 0.267 WS48
post season: only 3 seasons that even eclipsed 0.185 WS48 and one of those was right at 0.203 WS48 (to his credit, it was 2022). only 1 up there in the 0.267 range, and it was 2017 of course.

he does a little better in BPM but still, seasons of 8.7, 9.9, and 11.9 in the regular season, and then 8.8 and 9.7 in the playoffs, with the 9.7 of course being 2017.

this is steph compared to known playoff maestro james harden. see a difference in these numbers? i really don't (average rank is the average of the rank of the individual stats). even down to them being best over their whole careers and worst at their peaks.

to me, it's hard to see him over kobe. kobe already has the longevity. he has playoff resilience. he has more absolute titles, and let's not act like playing with shaq was way easier than being on the durant warriors.

where steph's average series victory is as a +4.2 SRS favorite and his average series loss is only as a -0.1 SRS underdog, kobe's average series victory is as a paltry +1.4 SRS favorite and his average series loss as a -2.6 SRS underdog.

this isn't strictly just a shaq thing. if you don't include anything with shaq, the numbers are still only +1.9 and -3.0 for kobe. from the 2009 finals to the 2010 finals, the lakers played 5 series as an average of a 0.6 SRS favorite and won them all. that's pretty impressive.

resultantly, kobe has the actual vs expected titles advantage, and is actually pretty amazing in that regard.

kobe has 5 titles with an amazing 1.4 expected titles. his +3.6 delta is behind only people from the 60's celtics and his +254% is behind only hakeem. steph isn't terrible, but +1.4 and +51% isn't as shiny of an accomplishment. and he has a little bit of an advantage from not racking up a lot of playoff appearances on good/not great teams, where you tend to collect at least a fraction of an expected championship but with no real chance of winning one. steph just either made the playoffs with a team that could go to the finals or just missed the playoffs.

throw together the longevity on top of the playoff resiliency, both team and individual and it seems like kobe should be above steph. what i'm less clear on, and what i've been dreading, is what to do with bird. i can't very well be the playoff resiliency guy and the "actual vs expected" guy and pimp for bird, who is about even with steph in resiliency and worse in "actual vs expected" and certainly doesn't have amazing longevity. 4 years of "meh" playoffs to start his career up to 1983 and then 1987 is basically his last dominant playoffs? it's hard to ignore him showing up as a rookie and the celtics just immediately becoming a +7 SRS, 60 win team and then staying there for about a decade. it's also hard to ignore 1991, well past his prime, where the celtics are 46-14 with him (63 win pace) and 10-12 without him (37 win pace), for a nice +26 WOWY at the age of 34. that's a lot of WOWY as a rookie and out to 12 years into his career. with 8 straight top 2 MVP finishes in there. but man, playoff underperformance after playoff underperformance.

i don't know if i've posted it here, but between the ages of 23-35, larry bird had 5 playoff series with a TS% below 46. all of them were at home and he lost 4 of them, and 4 of them were during his 1981-1988 prime and he lost 3 of them, with only the 1981 finals against a sub 0.500 team being the win.

playoff series below 46 TS% between the ages of 23-35
larry bird - 5
Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Kobe, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Dirk, Malone, Barkley combined - 5

and wilt's 1 series arguably shouldn't count given the era he was playing in.

I've noticed West grades out rather highly in your analyses / modeling that focus more on individual performance / PS translation. With underrated, good longevity (I'd say) - how high is he on your radar compared to the triad of Kobe, Curry, and Bird [unsure how you view Mikan] ?

DraymondGold · Post #29 » by **DraymondGold** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:07 am

f4p wrote:so for all the people picking steph, i just want to go back to playoff resiliency again. i looked at the last project's Top 33 (just stopped at pippen due to time and less interest in the players below him) plus newer guys like jokic, giannis, embiid, and kawhi and then put in tatum and butler. i would've put in doncic but i only did ages 22-35 and doncic only had one season (though he would have led the list below).

all the data is from ages 22 to 35 and it looks at the BBRef stats PER, WS48, BPM, and TS% and compares each year to the regular season. the resilience at the end is just an average of the normalized increase/decrease for each value. +1 is a top 95% value and -1 is a bottom 6.5% value (couldn't use 5% because the lower values were so low that they were making the average season as slightly "resilient"). for playoff runs shorter than 10 games, the final value was multiplied by "Games/10" so a 5 game, 1 round playoffs would get weighed at 50%. the 2nd table is all 416 playoff runs for these guys. the 1st table is their career average (each playoff run weighed equally to essentially average your resiliency from year to year).

Code: Select all
Rank Player Name Career Avg 1 Kawhi Leonard 0.4561 2 Hakeem Olajuwon 0.3315 3 George Mikan 0.3246 4 Lebron James 0.2747 5 Bill Russell 0.2548 6 Walt Frazier 0.2318 7 Jerry West 0.2142 8 Michael Jordan 0.2081 9 Tim Duncan 0.166 10 Magic Johnson 0.0968 11 Scottie Pippen 0.0963 12 Oscar Robertson 0.0865 13 Kobe Bryant 0.0856 14 Charles Barkley 0.0779 15 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0.0554 16 Dirk Nowitzki 0.0534 17 Jayson Tatum 0.0247 18 Nikola Jokic 0.0205 19 Shaquille O'neal 0.0179 20 Moses Malone 0.0093 21 Dwyane Wade -0.0021 22 Chris Paul -0.0156 23 Julius Erving -0.0231 24 Jimmy Butler -0.0341 25 Wilt Chamberlain -0.0851 26 Kevin Garnett -0.1115 27 Larry Bird -0.1327 28 Kevin Durant -0.1435 29 Patrick Ewing -0.1446 30 David Robinson -0.1552 31 Steve Nash -0.1582 32 Stephen Curry -0.1613 33 Bob Pettit -0.1624 34 John Stockton -0.182 35 Giannis Antetokounmpo -0.1975 36 James Harden -0.1982 37 Karl Malone -0.2959 38 Joel Embiid -0.533

Code: Select all
Rank Player Name Season Age PER TS% WS/48 BPM Resilience 1 George Mikan 1953-54 29 4.6 7.7 0.133 1.3491 2 Tim Duncan 2005-06 29 7.3 10.2 0.065 3.6 1.2829 3 Jerry West 1960-61 22 5.3 8.5 0.09 1.2777 4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70 22 6.9 5.6 0.099 1.2741 5 Hakeem Olajuwon 1996-97 34 4.9 7 0.075 5.7 1.2296 6 Hakeem Olajuwon 1986-87 24 4.7 10.5 0.062 4 1.1957 7 Dirk Nowitzki 2008-09 30 5.3 7.1 0.067 3.5 1.0901 8 Jimmy Butler 2021-22 32 6.3 1.2 0.063 5.5 1.0544 9 Lebron James 2008-09 24 5.7 2.7 0.081 4.3 1.0482 10 Kawhi Leonard 2016-17 25 3.9 6.2 0.05 4.8 1.0369 11 Lebron James 2019-20 35 4.7 7 0.065 2.3 0.9788 12 Hakeem Olajuwon 1987-88 25 15.6 8.6 0.203 10.1 0.9464 13 Kawhi Leonard 2020-21 29 4.6 5.7 0.039 3.4 0.9338 14 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1976-77 29 4.6 3.8 0.049 2.8 0.8582 15 Scottie Pippen 1989-90 24 2.4 4.1 0.062 3.6 0.8555 16 Julius Erving 1975-76 25 3.3 4.1 0.059 3 0.8493 17 Bill Russell 1964-65 30 1.4 6.8 0.052 0.8415 18 Bill Russell 1965-66 31 2.9 6.6 0.026 0.8314 19 Dirk Nowitzki 2009-10 31 5.4 6.5 0.097 6.5 0.8056 20 George Mikan 1948-49 24 4.3 0.8001 21 Charles Barkley 1993-94 30 5 1.2 0.023 3.6 0.7728 22 Lebron James 2017-18 33 3.6 -0.2 0.048 4 0.7544 23 Michael Jordan 1994-95 31 2.7 6.4 -0.017 3.8 0.7539 24 Lebron James 2016-17 32 3.1 3 0.054 2.2 0.7401 25 Stephen Curry 2016-17 28 2.5 3.5 0.043 2.8 0.7399 26 Bill Russell 1961-62 27 3.2 3 0.04 0.7373 27 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1973-74 26 3.9 1.9 0.047 2.4 0.7334 28 Larry Bird 1983-84 27 2.1 5.5 0.021 2.7 0.7257 29 Kobe Bryant 2009-10 31 2.8 2.2 0.03 2.9 0.6826 30 Dwyane Wade 2015-16 34 2 1.5 0.043 3 0.6639 31 Bill Russell 1962-63 28 2.3 4.4 0.012 0.65 32 Nikola Jokic 2018-19 23 3.3 0.7 0.037 2.5 0.6474 33 Julius Erving 1976-77 26 2 2.4 0.027 2.9 0.6462 34 Oscar Robertson 1972-73 34 3.8 6.1 0.088 0.6455 35 Larry Bird 1980-81 24 1.9 0.4 0.038 3.4 0.6353 36 Kobe Bryant 2008-09 30 2.4 0.3 0.032 3.2 0.6259 37 Tim Duncan 1998-99 22 1.9 3.2 0.03 2.1 0.6253 38 Julius Erving 1978-79 28 2 3 0.038 2.8 0.6194 39 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1983-84 36 2.7 -1.6 0.043 3.3 0.6106 40 Kawhi Leonard 2018-19 27 2.1 1.3 0.025 2.9 0.6088 41 Chris Paul 2010-11 25 5.2 9.2 0.01 3.4 0.6012 42 Michael Jordan 1997-98 34 2.9 1.2 0.027 2.1 0.5951 43 Walt Frazier 1973-74 28 2.6 2.9 0.021 1.6 0.5912 44 Bill Russell 1960-61 26 3.9 0.3 0.02 0.5896 45 Jerry West 1968-69 30 2.9 -1.5 0.058 0.5818 46 James Harden 2020-21 31 -0.6 5.5 0.055 1.9 0.5791 47 Tim Duncan 2002-03 26 1.5 1.3 0.031 2.6 0.5787 48 Kevin Durant 2018-19 30 2.6 3 0.002 2.1 0.5772 49 Stephen Curry 2021-22 33 3 0.5 0.03 1.9 0.5712 50 Bill Russell 1959-60 25 1.9 0.8 0.038 0.5561 51 Jerry West 1967-68 29 1.9 0.6 0.037 0.5438 52 Hakeem Olajuwon 1985-86 23 1.4 0.6 0.045 1.9 0.5427 53 Lebron James 2015-16 31 2.5 -0.3 0.032 2 0.534 54 Kobe Bryant 2000-01 22 0.5 0.3 0.064 1.7 0.5294 55 Magic Johnson 1985-86 26 1.6 -1.1 0.041 2.6 0.529 56 Dirk Nowitzki 2003-04 25 5 0 0.097 5.7 0.5288 57 Tim Duncan 2001-02 25 4.8 -2.6 -0.01 3.8 0.5083 58 Scottie Pippen 1988-89 23 -0.5 2 0.024 2.7 0.502 59 Bob Pettit 1962-63 30 1.1 1.8 0.022 0.4983 60 Charles Barkley 1985-86 22 1.4 1.2 0.013 2.1 0.4927 61 Kobe Bryant 2011-12 33 2.5 -0.2 0.011 2.1 0.4894 62 Jerry West 1962-63 24 1.2 2.5 0.008 0.487 63 Moses Malone 1982-83 27 0.6 0.9 0.012 2.7 0.4829 64 Luka Doncic 2021-22 22 3.5 0.6 0.005 1.1 0.4812 65 Walt Frazier 1974-75 29 7.4 13.5 0.09 5.3 0.471 66 Lebron James 2013-14 29 1.7 1.9 0.005 1.5 0.4704 67 Jimmy Butler 2018-19 29 0.9 -0.7 0.022 2.5 0.456 68 Walt Frazier 1970-71 25 0.7 1.6 0.019 0.4555 69 Shaquille O'neal 1995-96 23 1 0.5 -0.015 3.1 0.4429 70 Shaquille O'neal 1997-98 25 2.2 1.7 -0.024 2 0.4427 71 Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94 31 2.4 0.3 -0.002 1.7 0.4426 72 Chris Paul 2015-16 30 7 0 0.069 6.1 0.4396 73 Dwyane Wade 2009-10 28 1.4 8.8 0.005 4.3 0.4325 74 Kevin Durant 2011-12 23 1.3 2.2 0.001 1.1 0.427 75 Michael Jordan 1990-91 27 0.4 -0.5 0.012 2.6 0.4211 76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1979-80 32 2.6 -2.8 0.026 1.7 0.4206 77 Tim Duncan 2013-14 37 -0.2 3.3 0.04 -0.2 0.4156 78 Kawhi Leonard 2015-16 24 2.6 -1.9 -0.006 2.4 0.4123 79 Magic Johnson 1981-82 22 -0.4 2.4 0.024 1 0.4117 80 John Stockton 1986-87 24 -0.8 14.5 0.026 0.8 0.3948 81 Kevin Durant 2016-17 28 -0.1 3.2 0.002 1 0.3947 82 Larry Bird 1985-86 29 -1.7 3.5 0.019 1.2 0.3907 83 Scottie Pippen 1990-91 25 1.4 0.3 0.018 0.7 0.3866 84 Moses Malone 1988-89 33 2.9 2.6 0.03 3.8 0.3788 85 Wilt Chamberlain 1964-65 28 -1.5 3.9 0.003 0.373 86 Tim Duncan 2011-12 35 0.4 -0.2 0.01 1.7 0.3687 87 Dwyane Wade 2004-05 23 1.2 0 0.003 1.3 0.3672 88 Walt Frazier 1972-73 27 0 2.5 -0.007 0.3647 89 Chris Paul 2007-08 22 2.4 -1.1 0.005 0.9 0.3632 90 Kevin Durant 2010-11 22 0.5 -0.7 0.028 1 0.3585 91 Michael Jordan 1989-90 26 0.5 -1.4 -0.001 2.5 0.3555 92 Jerry West 1961-62 23 -0.7 2 0.008 0.353 93 Scottie Pippen 1999-00 34 1.1 -1.1 0.003 1.7 0.3515 94 Dwyane Wade 2005-06 24 -0.7 1.6 0.001 1.6 0.3505 95 Charles Barkley 1998-99 35 5.9 3.3 0.023 3.4 0.3479 96 Tim Duncan 2000-01 24 1.6 -0.5 -0.027 2.2 0.3478 97 Shaquille O'neal 1996-97 24 1.9 -0.4 0.018 0.7 0.3468 98 Kevin Garnett 2000-01 24 1 3.8 0.079 4.1 0.3437 99 Jimmy Butler 2019-20 30 0.2 3.1 -0.012 0.5 0.3367 100 Karl Malone 1993-94 30 1.7 -1.9 0.016 0.9 0.3341 101 Steve Nash 2009-10 35 0.8 1.9 -0.003 0.3 0.3337 102 Magic Johnson 1987-88 28 -0.2 1.9 -0.001 0.9 0.3329 103 Walt Frazier 1971-72 26 -0.1 1 0.004 0.3301 104 Dwyane Wade 2010-11 29 0.7 -1.1 -0.002 1.8 0.3273 105 Oscar Robertson 1970-71 32 1.5 -3 0.027 0.3258 106 Kevin Durant 2020-21 32 0.5 -3.6 0.008 2.8 0.3245 107 Kawhi Leonard 2019-20 28 0.9 0.4 0.002 0.5 0.3138 108 Dirk Nowitzki 2010-11 32 1.8 -0.3 -0.003 0.4 0.3109 109 Oscar Robertson 1973-74 35 0.9 0.1 -0.007 0.9 0.306 110 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1978-79 31 1 2.4 0.003 0.4 0.3049 111 Chris Paul 2014-15 29 -0.3 3.1 -0.022 0.7 0.3015 112 Chris Paul 2012-13 27 2.8 3.9 -0.02 0.9 0.2897 113 Kobe Bryant 2007-08 29 0.8 0.1 -0.03 1.6 0.2866 114 Charles Barkley 1994-95 31 1.4 0.8 -0.008 -0.1 0.2852 115 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2017-18 23 -0.7 2.2 0.032 0.9 0.2843 116 Wilt Chamberlain 1963-64 27 -0.3 0.6 -0.002 0.2798 117 Karl Malone 1991-92 28 -0.4 1.9 -0.017 0.8 0.2763 118 Shaquille O'neal 2003-04 31 0.4 -1.3 0.01 0.7 0.2685 119 Shaquille O'neal 2002-03 30 1.1 -3.2 -0.01 1.9 0.2606 120 John Stockton 1990-91 28 -1.6 4 -0.009 0.4 0.2597 121 Jerry West 1965-66 27 0.1 0.8 -0.019 0.2537 122 Patrick Ewing 1992-93 30 0.8 -1.1 -0.015 1.1 0.2536 123 Moses Malone 1979-80 24 0.8 1.7 -0.024 1.5 0.2443 124 Kawhi Leonard 2022-23 31 6 4.7 0.033 7.7 0.244 125 Magic Johnson 1986-87 27 -0.8 0.5 0.002 0.5 0.2421 126 Hakeem Olajuwon 1992-93 30 -0.6 -0.9 -0.013 1.6 0.2354 127 Michael Jordan 1992-93 29 0.4 -1.1 0 0.4 0.2302 128 David Robinson 1990-91 25 -1.3 14.5 -0.03 0 0.2288 129 Dirk Nowitzki 2005-06 27 -1.3 0.7 -0.012 1.1 0.2286 130 Jayson Tatum 2020-21 22 2.8 0.1 -0.023 2.6 0.2283 131 Dwyane Wade 2003-04 22 0.1 -0.3 0.001 0.1 0.2271 132 Magic Johnson 1983-84 24 0.2 -2.7 0.007 1 0.2243 133 Dirk Nowitzki 2007-08 29 1.7 0.3 -0.027 3 0.2149 134 Bob Pettit 1959-60 27 -0.4 0.5 -0.019 0.2109 135 George Mikan 1951-52 27 1 1.8 -0.062 0.2029 136 Tim Duncan 2008-09 32 2.9 0.5 -0.02 1.3 0.1997 137 Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60 23 -1.1 0.5 -0.004 0.1993 138 Chris Paul 2016-17 31 1.6 -2.2 -0.018 1.7 0.1979 139 Michael Jordan 1985-86 22 2.6 5.1 0.001 2.2 0.1953 140 John Stockton 1985-86 23 0.2 7.8 0.008 -0.6 0.19 141 Jimmy Butler 2014-15 25 -0.5 -2.1 -0.011 1.2 0.1796 142 Steve Nash 2004-05 30 1.4 -0.2 -0.039 0 0.1781 143 Kawhi Leonard 2013-14 22 -0.7 0.4 -0.002 -0.4 0.1756 144 Kevin Garnett 1998-99 22 1.7 -0.5 -0.011 2.8 0.1727 145 Nikola Jokic 2019-20 24 -0.1 0.9 -0.03 0 0.1718 146 Charles Barkley 1995-96 32 2.7 -2.3 0.006 2.3 0.1712 147 James Harden 2019-20 30 -1.6 1 -0.001 -0.2 0.1712 148 David Robinson 2000-01 35 0.8 -2.1 -0.039 1.3 0.1709 149 Julius Erving 1973-74 23 -1.7 0.8 0.014 -0.7 0.1671 150 John Stockton 1996-97 34 0.6 -2.9 -0.025 1.2 0.1653 151 Tim Duncan 2006-07 30 1.3 -2.3 -0.016 -0.1 0.1568 152 Walt Frazier 1968-69 23 1.1 -3.5 -0.009 0.156 153 John Stockton 1988-89 26 3 -2.3 -0.006 3.7 0.1498 154 Hakeem Olajuwon 1990-91 28 -1.1 8 0.001 0.8 0.1486 155 Oscar Robertson 1961-62 23 -0.6 3.2 -0.004 0.1483 156 George Mikan 1949-50 25 -0.6 0.147 157 Kevin Durant 2017-18 29 -0.9 -3.4 0.022 0.3 0.1467 158 Hakeem Olajuwon 1994-95 32 0.7 -0.3 -0.038 0 0.1465 159 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1982-83 35 -0.8 -1.1 -0.033 1.1 0.1364 160 Jerry West 1963-64 25 0.9 0.2 -0.022 0.1319 161 Dirk Nowitzki 2001-02 23 0.7 -2.2 -0.029 0.9 0.1309 162 David Robinson 1998-99 33 -1.6 -0.1 -0.018 0.4 0.1287 163 Joel Embiid 2019-20 25 0.8 1 -0.027 1.5 0.1272 164 Julius Erving 1977-78 27 -0.5 -2.2 -0.008 0.2 0.1204 165 Dirk Nowitzki 2000-01 22 -0.5 -2.8 -0.018 0.9 0.1191 166 Patrick Ewing 1996-97 34 -0.3 -0.1 -0.035 0.1 0.1108 167 Chris Paul 2020-21 35 -0.7 -1.5 -0.023 0.4 0.1089 168 Bill Russell 1967-68 33 -0.3 -0.3 -0.042 0.102 169 Oscar Robertson 1962-63 24 0.1 -1.4 -0.035 0.1008 170 Shaquille O'neal 2007-08 35 1.8 -10.3 0.024 2.8 0.1 171 Kevin Garnett 2011-12 35 0.1 -0.9 -0.029 -0.4 0.0978 172 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1984-85 37 -0.8 -2.6 -0.01 0.3 0.095 173 Scottie Pippen 1991-92 26 -1.4 -1.1 -0.024 0.5 0.095 174 George Mikan 1955-56 31 0.4 -1.3 0.016 0.0896 175 Shaquille O'neal 2000-01 28 -1.5 -1 0.015 -1.2 0.0867 176 Michael Jordan 1988-89 25 -1.2 -1.2 -0.022 0.2 0.0866 177 Jimmy Butler 2012-13 23 -0.8 0.1 -0.053 0.5 0.0866 178 Hakeem Olajuwon 1988-89 26 -1.1 -0.3 -0.015 1.4 0.0862 179 Jerry West 1972-73 34 -0.5 -2.1 -0.022 0.0792 180 Lebron James 2006-07 22 -0.6 -3.6 -0.006 0 0.0618 181 Charles Barkley 1988-89 25 -2.7 3.8 -0.037 0.9 0.0578 182 Patrick Ewing 1995-96 33 -2.8 0.6 -0.039 0.8 0.0561 183 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2019-20 25 -0.6 -0.3 -0.041 -0.3 0.056 184 Julius Erving 1972-73 22 -2.8 2.4 -0.034 0.0512 185 Dirk Nowitzki 2011-12 33 0.8 -0.4 -0.036 -0.5 0.0484 186 Lebron James 2011-12 27 -0.4 -2.9 -0.014 -0.4 0.0479 187 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2020-21 26 -1.6 -3.4 -0.02 0.9 0.0453 188 Jayson Tatum 2022-23 24 -1.1 -2.2 -0.017 -0.2 0.0452 189 Scottie Pippen 1997-98 32 -0.9 -3.3 -0.027 0.6 0.0424 190 Oscar Robertson 1966-67 28 -2.6 3.4 -0.051 0.04 191 Michael Jordan 1991-92 28 -0.5 -0.8 -0.058 0.2 0.0378 192 Michael Jordan 1995-96 32 -2.7 -1.8 -0.011 0.2 0.0288 193 Wilt Chamberlain 1960-61 24 -1.1 -2.7 -0.001 0.0269 194 John Stockton 1987-88 25 -0.7 -2.7 -0.037 0.3 0.0263 195 Magic Johnson 1984-85 25 -0.9 -3.8 -0.01 -0.1 0.0252 196 Moses Malone 1978-79 23 5 -10.3 -0.034 1.7 0.0243 197 Karl Malone 1999-00 36 -1.3 0.2 -0.055 -0.2 0.0181 198 David Robinson 1999-00 34 1 -10.5 -0.018 2.6 0.0147 199 Steve Nash 1997-98 23 0.9 -4.5 -0.056 1 0.0129 200 Patrick Ewing 1994-95 32 -3 0.4 -0.006 -1.2 0.0128 201 David Robinson 1989-90 24 -1.9 -1.6 -0.022 -0.3 0.0106 202 Bob Pettit 1956-57 24 -3.2 1 -0.038 0.0028 203 Kevin Garnett 2001-02 25 1.7 -2.2 -0.073 -0.5 0.0015 204 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85 22 -1.4 -7.4 -0.008 1.7 0.0014 205 Jerry West 1966-67 28 -4.6 0 -0.2 0 206 Patrick Ewing 1987-88 25 -1.2 -3.2 -0.034 0.2 -0.0044 207 Shaquille O'neal 2001-02 29 -1.4 -2.1 -0.026 -0.5 -0.007 208 Stephen Curry 2012-13 24 -0.8 -3.1 -0.019 -0.7 -0.0085 209 Patrick Ewing 1989-90 27 -0.4 -2 -0.05 -0.3 -0.0088 210 Michael Jordan 1996-97 33 -0.7 -4.3 -0.048 1 -0.0109 211 Charles Barkley 1990-91 27 -2.1 -0.5 -0.041 -0.4 -0.0136 212 Michael Jordan 1986-87 23 -1.7 -3.3 -0.082 1.9 -0.0157 213 Scottie Pippen 1998-99 33 1.9 -8.2 -0.035 0.2 -0.0173 214 Wilt Chamberlain 1971-72 35 -0.7 -4.8 -0.014 -0.025 215 John Stockton 1992-93 30 -2.7 -2.4 -0.032 0.1 -0.0259 216 Kevin Garnett 2009-10 33 -1.8 -3.9 -0.023 0.3 -0.0261 217 Jimmy Butler 2013-14 24 -2.1 -1.5 -0.035 -0.8 -0.0301 218 Shaquille O'neal 1994-95 22 -2.5 0.7 -0.05 -0.6 -0.0307 219 Moses Malone 1987-88 32 -2.9 -1.4 -0.038 -0.3 -0.0341 220 Moses Malone 1986-87 31 -4.5 0.6 -0.073 0.4 -0.0355 221 Chris Paul 2019-20 34 -2.4 -0.6 -0.052 -0.3 -0.039 222 Jerry West 1964-65 26 1.7 -3.8 -0.072 -0.0392 223 Oscar Robertson 1963-64 25 -2.9 -0.8 -0.033 -0.0423 224 Lebron James 2009-10 25 -2.5 0.3 -0.057 -0.3 -0.043 225 Larry Bird 1989-90 33 -1.2 -0.7 -0.051 -1.6 -0.043 226 Nikola Jokic 2022-23 27 -0.3 -7 -0.003 -0.2 -0.0432 227 Scottie Pippen 1995-96 30 -1.6 -7.8 -0.014 1.5 -0.0476 228 Chris Paul 2013-14 28 -2.3 0.3 -0.075 0.2 -0.049 229 James Harden 2014-15 25 -1.9 1.5 -0.063 -1.2 -0.0493 230 Stephen Curry 2018-19 30 -1.8 -2.1 -0.014 -1.4 -0.0509 231 Moses Malone 1981-82 26 -2.5 -8.7 -0.035 1.4 -0.0534 232 Kobe Bryant 2006-07 28 -2 -1.9 -0.078 0.2 -0.0584 233 Julius Erving 1981-82 31 -3.4 -1.2 -0.044 0.3 -0.061 234 Bill Russell 1968-69 34 0.1 -1.9 -0.077 -0.0662 235 Chris Paul 2018-19 33 -2.1 -0.3 -0.04 -1.4 -0.0713 236 John Stockton 1997-98 35 -1.8 -5.9 -0.027 0.8 -0.0713 237 Julius Erving 1984-85 34 -3.1 -2.9 -0.027 0.1 -0.0732 238 Walt Frazier 1967-68 22 -1.8 -3.2 -0.062 -0.0736 239 Kawhi Leonard 2014-15 23 -2.1 0.4 -0.061 -1.5 -0.0761 240 Wilt Chamberlain 1961-62 25 -2.4 -2.8 -0.026 -0.0776 241 Shaquille O'neal 1999-00 27 -0.1 -2.2 -0.059 -1.2 -0.0827 242 Larry Bird 1979-80 23 -2.2 -2.7 -0.046 -0.2 -0.0855 243 Karl Malone 1988-89 25 -2.3 -1.8 -0.093 -1.8 -0.0878 244 Oscar Robertson 1965-66 27 -0.9 -3.3 -0.074 -0.0885 245 Julius Erving 1979-80 29 -2.9 -1.5 -0.035 -0.7 -0.0892 246 Bill Russell 1958-59 24 -1.9 -3.9 -0.024 -0.0901 247 James Harden 2015-16 26 -3.5 -4.3 -0.098 2.2 -0.0938 248 Charles Barkley 1992-93 29 -1 -4.4 -0.027 -0.9 -0.094 249 Steve Nash 2001-02 27 -2 -1.7 -0.057 -0.8 -0.0955 250 David Robinson 1992-93 27 -2.6 -4 -0.025 -0.3 -0.108 251 Kevin Garnett 2002-03 26 -1.4 -1.4 -0.084 -1.4 -0.1145 252 Dwyane Wade 2016-17 35 -3 -3.6 -0.027 -1.5 -0.1163 253 Karl Malone 1994-95 31 -0.5 -4 -0.096 -0.9 -0.1185 254 Lebron James 2014-15 30 -0.6 -9 -0.026 0.8 -0.119 255 Scottie Pippen 1993-94 28 -0.4 -2.3 -0.045 -2.1 -0.1203 256 Bill Russell 1963-64 29 -0.4 -5.5 -0.039 -0.1246 257 Charles Barkley 1997-98 34 -5.4 -0.6 -0.063 -1.8 -0.1248 258 Nikola Jokic 2021-22 26 0.3 -1.8 -0.094 -3 -0.1283 259 Bill Russell 1957-58 23 -1.2 -4.5 -0.044 -0.1301 260 Bill Russell 1956-57 22 -2.2 -5.2 -0.014 -0.1311 261 Moses Malone 1983-84 28 -4.8 -1.5 -0.065 -0.9 -0.1317 262 James Harden 2011-12 22 -0.2 -5.5 -0.046 -0.8 -0.1381 263 George Mikan 1950-51 26 -3.2 -0.1397 264 Hakeem Olajuwon 1997-98 35 -2 -8.2 -0.082 1.1 -0.1399 265 Kevin Garnett 1999-00 23 -3.1 -10.4 -0.07 1.1 -0.1483 266 Shaquille O'neal 2006-07 34 -1.8 -3.8 -0.111 -1.7 -0.1509 267 Scottie Pippen 1992-93 27 -2.3 -0.6 -0.049 -2 -0.1516 268 Joel Embiid 2020-21 26 -4.1 -0.5 -0.069 0 -0.1523 269 Moses Malone 1980-81 25 -2.7 -4.8 -0.028 -0.4 -0.1532 270 Kobe Bryant 2001-02 23 -2.7 -3.3 -0.051 -0.3 -0.1563 271 Steve Nash 2005-06 31 -2 -1.7 -0.059 -1.3 -0.1563 272 Magic Johnson 1989-90 30 -1.6 -2.4 -0.048 -2.1 -0.166 273 Patrick Ewing 1991-92 29 -2.9 -6.1 -0.031 0.3 -0.1686 274 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1980-81 33 -3.1 -9.9 -0.071 -2.2 -0.1699 275 Scottie Pippen 1994-95 29 -3.7 -1 -0.038 -1.6 -0.1729 276 Wilt Chamberlain 1965-66 29 -2.3 -4.7 -0.082 -0.1746 277 George Mikan 1952-53 28 -2.3 -2.6 -0.059 -0.1766 278 Bob Pettit 1958-59 26 -5.3 -1.5 -0.058 -0.1805 279 Michael Jordan 1987-88 24 -3.3 -0.5 -0.074 -0.8 -0.1808 280 Dirk Nowitzki 2002-03 24 -2.4 1.2 -0.077 -2.2 -0.1811 281 Joel Embiid 2018-19 24 -4.3 -3.4 -0.045 0.2 -0.183 282 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2016-17 22 -4.2 -3.6 -0.072 -0.7 -0.1874 283 Tim Duncan 2004-05 28 -2.1 -1.4 -0.054 -2.1 -0.1887 284 Wilt Chamberlain 1968-69 32 -3.6 -4.6 -0.015 -0.1903 285 James Harden 2021-22 32 -4.1 0.1 -0.04 -2.1 -0.1908 286 David Robinson 1995-96 30 -0.3 -2 -0.076 -2.2 -0.1924 287 Magic Johnson 1982-83 23 -2.4 -4.8 -0.051 -0.3 -0.1931 288 Chris Paul 2017-18 32 -1.6 -3.9 -0.072 -0.5 -0.1947 289 Jerry West 1969-70 31 -3.5 -2.2 -0.05 -0.1984 290 Scottie Pippen 1996-97 31 -3.2 -2.8 -0.058 -0.6 -0.1989 291 Jayson Tatum 2021-22 23 -4.2 -1.6 -0.059 -0.5 -0.1993 292 James Harden 2012-13 23 -2.1 -5.2 -0.106 -0.3 -0.2012 293 Hakeem Olajuwon 1989-90 27 -3.6 -6.3 -0.092 -1.9 -0.2015 294 Tim Duncan 2003-04 27 -3 2.6 -0.066 -3.3 -0.2024 295 Magic Johnson 1990-91 31 -2.4 -2.5 -0.058 -1.4 -0.2044 296 Dwyane Wade 2008-09 27 -4.1 -0.9 -0.037 -3.3 -0.2049 297 Larry Bird 1991-92 35 -4.6 -3.3 -0.09 -3.3 -0.2127 298 Karl Malone 1987-88 24 -2.3 -3.1 -0.058 -1.4 -0.22 299 Lebron James 2010-11 26 -3.6 -3.1 -0.046 -1 -0.221 300 Charles Barkley 1986-87 23 -4.9 -1.1 -0.06 -4.1 -0.2225 301 Kobe Bryant 2003-04 25 -2.7 -4.5 -0.065 -0.3 -0.2325 302 Magic Johnson 1988-89 29 -3.5 -1.6 -0.067 -1.2 -0.2336 303 Bob Pettit 1960-61 28 -2.9 -1.7 -0.078 -0.2374 304 Oscar Robertson 1964-65 26 -5.9 -3.3 -0.112 -0.2409 305 Tim Duncan 2012-13 36 -3.1 -3.1 -0.03 -2.4 -0.2465 306 Moses Malone 1984-85 29 -4.5 -6.8 -0.033 0.6 -0.2487 307 Stephen Curry 2014-15 26 -3.5 -3.1 -0.06 -1.1 -0.2591 308 Karl Malone 1986-87 23 -4.6 -5.4 -0.064 -3.1 -0.2609 309 Julius Erving 1985-86 35 -3.3 -2.9 -0.046 -2 -0.2646 310 Wilt Chamberlain 1967-68 31 -2 -4.6 -0.064 -0.265 311 Scottie Pippen 2000-01 35 -5.5 -5.2 -0.178 -4 -0.272 312 Patrick Ewing 1993-94 31 -2.3 -5.6 -0.061 -0.8 -0.2729 313 Charles Barkley 1996-97 33 -2.5 -2.4 -0.06 -2.4 -0.2742 314 Larry Bird 1982-83 26 -3.8 -8.3 -0.091 -0.1 -0.2773 315 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1981-82 34 -3.3 -5.8 -0.048 -0.6 -0.2774 316 Bob Pettit 1964-65 32 -7.3 -4.8 -0.096 -0.2785 317 Kobe Bryant 2010-11 32 -3.3 -1.2 -0.079 -1.8 -0.2806 318 Bob Pettit 1957-58 25 -3.7 -2 -0.075 -0.2875 319 Shaquille O'neal 1998-99 26 -1.8 -6.9 -0.079 -1.1 -0.2878 320 Shaquille O'neal 2005-06 33 -4.5 -1.5 -0.061 -1.7 -0.2907 321 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1977-78 30 -7.3 -6.3 -0.127 -5.6 -0.2978 322 Tim Duncan 2007-08 31 -2.5 -5.8 -0.078 -0.3 -0.3006 323 Kevin Garnett 2007-08 31 -2.3 -4.6 -0.066 -1.6 -0.3034 324 Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67 30 -1.2 -9.1 -0.032 -0.3075 325 Steve Nash 2007-08 33 -4.3 -10.3 -0.078 -1.8 -0.3127 326 Dwyane Wade 2013-14 32 -3.5 -2.8 -0.063 -2 -0.3141 327 Steve Nash 2006-07 32 -1.9 -7.7 -0.06 -0.7 -0.3163 328 Karl Malone 1990-91 27 -3.4 -6 -0.071 -0.7 -0.3189 329 Hakeem Olajuwon 1995-96 33 -5.5 -1.4 -0.087 -1.8 -0.324 330 Jimmy Butler 2017-18 28 -6.8 -3.3 -0.1 -3.2 -0.3242 331 Lebron James 2007-08 23 -4.8 -4.3 -0.055 -0.8 -0.3245 332 Oscar Robertson 1971-72 33 -2.5 -7.8 -0.033 -0.3298 333 Kevin Durant 2012-13 24 -2.3 -7.3 -0.081 0 -0.3304 334 Joel Embiid 2017-18 23 -4.8 -5.4 -0.059 -1.5 -0.3328 335 Stephen Curry 2013-14 25 -5.3 -1.1 -0.094 -3 -0.3364 336 Karl Malone 1997-98 34 -3.7 -6.3 -0.075 -0.2 -0.3561 337 Lebron James 2012-13 28 -3.5 -5.5 -0.062 -1.3 -0.357 338 Patrick Ewing 1988-89 26 -3 -7.1 -0.043 -2.3 -0.3624 339 Karl Malone 1995-96 32 -2.4 -7.7 -0.062 -1 -0.3626 340 Julius Erving 1983-84 33 -7.7 -3.1 -0.109 -3.8 -0.3714 341 Moses Malone 1990-91 35 -4.1 -16.9 -0.052 -1.4 -0.3719 342 Wilt Chamberlain 1969-70 33 -4.5 -2.6 -0.081 -0.3819 343 Steve Nash 2003-04 29 -5 -13 -0.07 -2.5 -0.385 344 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1970-71 23 -3.7 -5.8 -0.055 -0.3874 345 Stephen Curry 2022-23 34 -3.7 -6.8 -0.061 -1 -0.3875 346 Dwyane Wade 2011-12 30 -4.3 -3.3 -0.062 -2.6 -0.4016 347 Steve Nash 2002-03 28 -4.5 -1.1 -0.093 -2.4 -0.4045 348 James Harden 2016-17 27 -4.4 -3 -0.088 -1.7 -0.406 349 Tim Duncan 2010-11 34 -6.4 -3.7 -0.118 -3.3 -0.4182 350 James Harden 2022-23 33 -3.1 -6.9 -0.077 -1.3 -0.4247 351 James Harden 2013-14 24 -5.2 -9.9 -0.11 -1.4 -0.4254 352 Larry Bird 1990-91 34 -3.9 -4 -0.062 -3 -0.4327 353 Steve Nash 2000-01 26 -4.5 -5 -0.087 -1.1 -0.4364 354 Kobe Bryant 2002-03 24 -4 -1.9 -0.079 -3.4 -0.4365 355 John Stockton 1991-92 29 -3.4 -4.2 -0.093 -2.1 -0.4402 356 Walt Frazier 1969-70 24 -4.6 -4.4 -0.073 -0.4402 357 Karl Malone 2000-01 37 -5 -8.8 -0.169 -2.7 -0.4494 358 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2022-23 28 -10.2 -8 -0.23 -6.5 -0.4503 359 Bill Russell 1966-67 32 -3.3 -6.4 -0.088 -0.4538 360 Charles Barkley 1989-90 26 -2.1 -7.2 -0.093 -1.8 -0.4637 361 Patrick Ewing 1990-91 28 -13.4 -8.9 -0.204 -5.6 -0.4643 362 Larry Bird 1981-82 25 -4.7 -8.3 -0.051 -1.2 -0.4685 363 Jimmy Butler 2016-17 27 -5.7 -5.8 -0.12 -4 -0.4714 364 Wilt Chamberlain 1970-71 34 -1.2 -7.9 -0.097 -0.4782 365 Bob Pettit 1955-56 23 -5.9 -2 -0.128 -0.4798 366 John Stockton 1994-95 32 -3.8 -10.5 -0.146 -4.7 -0.485 367 John Stockton 1993-94 31 -2.6 -8.5 -0.07 -2.3 -0.5014 368 Julius Erving 1974-75 24 -6.1 -5.8 -0.154 -5.9 -0.506 369 Kobe Bryant 2005-06 27 -8.1 2.8 -0.137 -5.2 -0.5077 370 Karl Malone 1989-90 26 -7.5 -12.1 -0.138 -2.9 -0.5258 371 John Stockton 1999-00 37 -4 -4.3 -0.09 -3.1 -0.5258 372 David Robinson 1997-98 32 -3.7 -8.5 -0.086 -2.2 -0.5265 373 Larry Bird 1986-87 30 -4.6 -3.5 -0.091 -3.1 -0.5283 374 James Harden 2018-19 29 -5.4 -4.9 -0.065 -2.9 -0.5303 375 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2018-19 24 -4.4 -7.4 -0.073 -2 -0.5329 376 Kevin Garnett 2010-11 34 -3.3 -9.6 -0.081 -2.3 -0.5377 377 Nikola Jokic 2020-21 25 -1.7 -5.6 -0.12 -3.1 -0.5451 378 David Robinson 1993-94 28 -8.7 -10.6 -0.191 -5.7 -0.5479 379 Dwyane Wade 2012-13 31 -5.3 -7.3 -0.084 -1.3 -0.5533 380 John Stockton 1989-90 27 -5.9 -12.5 -0.132 -5.4 -0.5689 381 Jimmy Butler 2022-23 33 -3.6 -8.2 -0.088 -2.2 -0.5758 382 Stephen Curry 2017-18 29 -5.9 -8.5 -0.085 -0.6 -0.5779 383 Larry Bird 1984-85 28 -5.6 -4.9 -0.083 -2.8 -0.5793 384 Julius Erving 1980-81 30 -4.5 -4.5 -0.114 -2.7 -0.5912 385 Giannis Antetokounmpo 2021-22 27 -5.3 -8.1 -0.103 -0.8 -0.5973 386 Kevin Garnett 2003-04 27 -4.4 -3.4 -0.109 -3.7 -0.6008 387 Kevin Durant 2022-23 34 -4.8 -7.8 -0.08 -2.5 -0.6138 388 Karl Malone 1992-93 29 -9.6 -8.4 -0.153 -6.1 -0.6316 389 Tim Duncan 2009-10 33 -5 -3.3 -0.124 -3.3 -0.6373 390 John Stockton 1998-99 36 -3.8 -8.4 -0.101 -2.5 -0.6439 391 John Stockton 1995-96 33 -4.9 -9.8 -0.058 -2.9 -0.6534 392 Dirk Nowitzki 2006-07 28 -6.7 -9.6 -0.15 -5.2 -0.6661 393 James Harden 2017-18 28 -4.9 -7.1 -0.126 -1.8 -0.6693 394 Karl Malone 1998-99 35 -4.4 -8.5 -0.117 -2.2 -0.696 395 Bob Pettit 1963-64 31 -5.3 -5.2 -0.129 -0.71 396 Larry Bird 1987-88 31 -7.6 -7 -0.092 -2.1 -0.7164 397 David Robinson 1994-95 29 -6.5 -6.6 -0.097 -3.1 -0.731 398 Patrick Ewing 1997-98 35 -12.6 -14.5 -0.201 -8.2 -0.7426 399 Kevin Durant 2021-22 33 -12 -10.8 -0.224 -10.1 -0.7548 400 Dwyane Wade 2006-07 25 -13.7 -10.4 -0.279 -8.8 -0.8033 401 Julius Erving 1982-83 32 -7.1 -7 -0.104 -3.6 -0.8207 402 Shaquille O'neal 2004-05 32 -8.9 -2.9 -0.122 -4.2 -0.8482 403 Dirk Nowitzki 2004-05 26 -6 -7.3 -0.144 -3.6 -0.8855 404 Jerry West 1971-72 33 -4.3 -10.1 -0.138 -0.8998 405 Kevin Durant 2013-14 25 -7.2 -6.5 -0.15 -3.8 -0.94 406 Karl Malone 1996-97 33 -6.7 -9.9 -0.141 -4.3 -1.0398 407 Dirk Nowitzki 2013-14 35 -9.7 -12.3 -0.188 -6.3 -1.0506 408 Jimmy Butler 2020-21 31 -16.8 -21.3 -0.319 -9.1 -1.0524 409 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1972-73 25 -10.8 -13.3 -0.242 -1.0699 410 Chris Paul 2011-12 26 -7 -5.6 -0.175 -5.5 -1.0739 411 Chris Paul 2008-09 23 -13.9 -9.4 -0.327 -9.5 -1.0762 412 Stephen Curry 2015-16 27 -9.2 -6.6 -0.166 -4.9 -1.143 413 Kevin Durant 2015-16 27 -7.9 -9.2 -0.14 -5.9 -1.1686 414 Joel Embiid 2021-22 27 -12.1 -2.6 -0.135 -9.1 -1.3246 415 Joel Embiid 2022-23 28 -11.1 -9.4 -0.169 -7.3 -1.3324 416 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1971-72 24 -7.5 -14.1 -0.193 -1.4556

ignoring the gargantuan outlier that is joel embiid, and also karl malone, steph finds himself lumped in way down at the bottom. i feel like he's way more james harden than people want to admit. and to the thrust of some of my earlier points, here is how it looks at his 2015-2019 peak in the 4 seasons where there was actually some threat (warriors down in series/playing competitive series):

Code: Select all
2014-15 -0.2591 2015-16 -1.143 2017-18 -0.5779 2018-19 -0.0509

that's an average of -0.508. in other words, when it wasn't the easiest, most pressure-free playoff run ever, at his peak he basically showed the same anti-resilience as massive anti-resilience outlier joel embiid. and he somehow got 2 titles and a another finals where game 7 was tied with a minute to go. so much of his ring total seems to be based on having one of the largest margins of error ever and managing to win rings even when significantly underperforming his regular season play, either because the other team got injured at just the right time (2015 cleveland/2018 rockets) or he had the most talented roster ever at his side (2016 1 minute away from winning/2018). it's such a luxury so many others didn't get.

from 2014-2023, except for 2022:
regular season: he never dipped below a PER of 24, with 3 seasons above 28 (and a 31.5).
post season: dipped below a PER of 23 (5x) more than he was above 24 (3x), with no seasons above 28 and only 1 above 25 (27.1). the one of course in 2017.

regular season: 7 seasons of 0.200 WS48 (ok, one was 0.199) or above with 3 of at least 0.267 WS48
post season: only 3 seasons that even eclipsed 0.185 WS48 and one of those was right at 0.203 WS48 (to his credit, it was 2022). only 1 up there in the 0.267 range, and it was 2017 of course.

he does a little better in BPM but still, seasons of 8.7, 9.9, and 11.9 in the regular season, and then 8.8 and 9.7 in the playoffs, with the 9.7 of course being 2017.

this is steph compared to known playoff maestro james harden. see a difference in these numbers? i really don't (average rank is the average of the rank of the individual stats). even down to them being best over their whole careers and worst at their peaks.

to me, it's hard to see him over kobe. kobe already has the longevity. he has playoff resilience. he has more absolute titles, and let's not act like playing with shaq was way easier than being on the durant warriors.

where steph's average series victory is as a +4.2 SRS favorite and his average series loss is only as a -0.1 SRS underdog, kobe's average series victory is as a paltry +1.4 SRS favorite and his average series loss as a -2.6 SRS underdog.

this isn't strictly just a shaq thing. if you don't include anything with shaq, the numbers are still only +1.9 and -3.0 for kobe. from the 2009 finals to the 2010 finals, the lakers played 5 series as an average of a 0.6 SRS favorite and won them all. that's pretty impressive.

resultantly, kobe has the actual vs expected titles advantage, and is actually pretty amazing in that regard.

kobe has 5 titles with an amazing 1.4 expected titles. his +3.6 delta is behind only people from the 60's celtics and his +254% is behind only hakeem. steph isn't terrible, but +1.4 and +51% isn't as shiny of an accomplishment. and he has a little bit of an advantage from not racking up a lot of playoff appearances on good/not great teams, where you tend to collect at least a fraction of an expected championship but with no real chance of winning one. steph just either made the playoffs with a team that could go to the finals or just missed the playoffs.

throw together the longevity on top of the playoff resiliency, both team and individual and it seems like kobe should be above steph. what i'm less clear on, and what i've been dreading, is what to do with bird. i can't very well be the playoff resiliency guy and the "actual vs expected" guy and pimp for bird, who is about even with steph in resiliency and worse in "actual vs expected" and certainly doesn't have amazing longevity. 4 years of "meh" playoffs to start his career up to 1983 and then 1987 is basically his last dominant playoffs? it's hard to ignore him showing up as a rookie and the celtics just immediately becoming a +7 SRS, 60 win team and then staying there for about a decade. it's also hard to ignore 1991, well past his prime, where the celtics are 46-14 with him (63 win pace) and 10-12 without him (37 win pace), for a nice +26 WOWY at the age of 34. that's a lot of WOWY as a rookie and out to 12 years into his career. with 8 straight top 2 MVP finishes in there. but man, playoff underperformance after playoff underperformance.

i don't know if i've posted it here, but between the ages of 23-35, larry bird had 5 playoff series with a TS% below 46. all of them were at home and he lost 4 of them, and 4 of them were during his 1981-1988 prime and he lost 3 of them, with only the 1981 finals against a sub 0.500 team being the win.

playoff series below 46 TS% between the ages of 23-35
larry bird - 5
Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Kobe, Durant, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Dirk, Malone, Barkley combined - 5

and wilt's 1 series arguably shouldn't count given the era he was playing in.

Thanks for collecting the Box stats f4p!

There's an issue with the playoff resilience argument though: these stats don't really get at what the pro-Steph supporters are actually arguing. It's talking past their point a bit.

Which Stats do we use?
Most of the crowd supporting Steph are incorporating some combination of actual impact stats. Not PER or WS48, but plus minus, or RAPM, or EPM, or WOWY, or WOWYR. And these stats are much more favorable to Curry in the playoffs.

Why do we (the pro-Steph crowd) prefer these stats? Well there's a few reasons, that you well know.
-They measure actual value in a role. They don't overrate scoring or underrate playmaking, they're not blind to defensive value or offensive leadership or off-ball value. They measure actual value.
-They do a better job in tests of stats. They correlate with wins in a game better, they correlate with good team performance better (i.e. they do a better job at 'describing' value in a game), they are better predictors of future games and future team performance (they are better at predicting value in future games)

Why does this matter for Steph?
The pro-Steph crowd has argued it's specifically important to use these stats when evaluating Steph, because so much of Steph's value specifically comes from stuff that gets missed in the basic box stats. GOAT level Off ball motion, GOAT level stretching the floor, GOAT level gravity, all-time guard screening, GOAT-level volume at drawing double teams, being the driver of a GOAT level offensive system, being a strong offensive communicator, fitting well alongside other talented stars, playing sound positional defense, strong defensive communication
... every single one of these things are missed by PER and WS48. Entirely. Yet these are some of the key things that puts Steph in contention for this vote

Which do the more accurate stats portray Steph in the playoffs?
Well, a lot more positively than you are. BPM is the most accurate box stat out of the ones you mentioned... it performs best on tests of how well it predicts team success and player value in the moment and in the future. And by your own admission, Steph gets betterin BPM.

This trend continues if we look to other stats. In AuPM (i.e. RAPM but stabler in short samples), pre-2022, Steph does not decline in the playoffs. And in fact is more valuable than Kobe. If we add 2022 and 2023, Steph actually improves in the playoffs on average.

Why does Steph show decline in certain playoffs? And what years do we focus on for our sample?
Steph was majorly injured in 2016. Steph was (slightly) injured in 2018. We've been over this. When looking at his 4-year peak (while throwing out 2017 for... reasons...), you'll note that Steph shows his biggest decline in 2016 in your own stat (when he had a major playoff injury). People who have been arguing for Steph's resiliency have argued that you need to separate playoff decline due to injury (2016) compared to healthy years, that the majority of the perceived decline is exclusively from taking injured samples with his healthy samples, and that he basically maintains value (a higher value than Kobe) or even gets better in a variety of impact stats when looking at healthy years.

Meanwhile, you throw out 2017 because it was "the easiest, most pressure-free playoff run ever,"... while ignoring the fact that it was only so easy and pressure free when Steph as playing. Also conveniently throwing out his single best playoff run ever. I bet playoff Hakeem would look worse without 1994, or playoff Shaq would look worse without 2001, or playoff Wilt would look worse without 1967.

It's interesting that you also don't include 2022 or 2023 in your later year by year focus, when Steph seemed to get better quite clearly in the playoffs. It also happened to be when he was healthy for the playoffs... but I'm sure that's just a coincidence :wink:

Meanwhile, your team arguments (looking at championship delta) seem to also miss all the arguments pro-Steph people have been making (that Steph's teams near his peak were pretty universally better than Kobe's teams... by basically every team stat we have).

I don't know man. The box stats are certainly interesting stuff, and the championship deltas are at least interesting. But basically none of this actually addresses the actual points that the pro-Steph crowd is arguing, nor does it address the concerns other people have raised with using this criteria (championships vs expected championships have a lot of potential noise and biases that we've discussed already). It's okay to have different criteria than others! But I'm not sure this actually addresses any of the arguments in favor of Steph.

iggymcfrack · Post #30 » by **iggymcfrack** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:09 am

One_and_Done wrote:That last sentence was a pretty out there remark. Giannis is a perennial DPOY candidate. Dirk was somewhere between bad and solid. To claim the gap between Giannis and Dirk is smaller than between D.Rob and Giannis is clearly absurd. The Mavs would often hide Dirk on the worst offensive player. Giannis is even now maybe still the best defensive player in the NBA on balance. I say that as someone who wants to vote for Dirk soon.

I’d say Dirk was probably a 60th to 70th percentile defender. Somewhere around a +1 on average. Giannis is probably a 90th percentile. Some years he had a big impact. Some not. He’s maybe a +2.5 to +3 defensively. Robinson was a 100th percentile defender. He’s like a +5. The difference between an elite all-time defender and just a very good all-NBA defender is massive. 22/23 Giannis wasn’t much better than a typical Dirk year on D. He only has an impact when he’s zoned in.

ceiling raiser · Post #31 » by **ceiling raiser** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:19 am

I'm planning to vote for Curry again, and plan on posting at length, but I'm really wondering what the affirmative case for Bird is.

I think the argument for Bird in the top 10 is very similar to the arguments used to diminish Garnett over the years, i.e. "KG was viewed as similar to Dirk, so he has to be closer to Dirk than Duncan". That's a load of crap. In reality, I think the net has been hurting Magic. Just as the board has realized Duncan and Garnett were peers, Jordan and Magic were peers. Both sets of guys have very similar arguments all-time. The only difference is, Dirk is a +/- monster, who warrants top 10 consideration. Bird is...not.

In reality, I wonder if we should view Bird as closer to Dr. J, who is out of most people's top 20s.

This might be surprising to hear, but I am considering Kobe for my alternate vote. I have a number of other players who have not yet been voted in ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list, however none are in the current nomination pool.

Don't take for granted that Bird is entitled to be enshrined close to Magic (who is a legitimate all-time great player).

rk2023 · Post #32 » by **rk2023** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:22 am

trelos6 wrote:Curry dominates the scoring / efficiency, while also being close with Magic in creation and turnovers.

I have Curry’s peak a touch higher than Bird and Magic.

All 3 have 8 MVP level years, an additional weak MVP level year. I give Magic 2 extra All-Star seasons, Larry 1, and Steph 0, but it’s negligible considering their 9 year primes.

I also grade Larry Bird as the best defender of the 3, however he grades out significantly worse in creation metrics. Although, I do like Larry as a creator, he’s just a step below the top tier guys.

Onto my official vote, for which I cannot deny the high scoring and high efficiency from Steph Curry.

#11. Steph Curry
#12. Larry Bird

Nomination: David Robinson

With your seasonal estimations / analysis (From what it seems, I'm taking a similar approach as well - while focusing on the pragmatic measures of impact), I've seen you mention how Kobe grades out very well in longevity (and him compared to Steph) in past threads. Am curious how you view him in this comparison at the moment - same logic applies for Bird here with the two 21st century guards.

With what you have mentioned, am wondering if you have thoughts on Kobe looking >= Bird in some of the prominent creation metrics, and the notion of him perhaps generating a career value edge from an additive value standpoint.

What I am referring to below:

Spoiler:

trelos6 · Post #33 » by **trelos6** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:29 am

How I see the next big group of candidates.

Each category is inclusive, so 1MVP season is also counted as a weak MVP, all nba and all star season.

One_and_Done · Post #34 » by **One_and_Done** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:39 am

ceiling raiser wrote:I'm planning to vote for Curry again, and plan on posting at length, but I'm really wondering what the affirmative case for Bird is.

I think the argument for Bird in the top 10 is very similar to the arguments used to diminish Garnett over the years, i.e. "KG was viewed as similar to Dirk, so he has to be closer to Dirk than Duncan". That's a load of crap. In reality, I think the net has been hurting Magic. Just as the board has realized Duncan and Garnett were peers, Jordan and Magic were peers. Both sets of guys have very similar arguments all-time. The only difference is, Dirk is a +/- monster, who warrants top 10 consideration. Bird is...not.

In reality, I wonder if we should view Bird as closer to Dr. J, who is out of most people's top 20s.

This might be surprising to hear, but I am considering Kobe for my alternate vote. I have a number of other players who have not yet been voted in ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list, however none are in the current nomination pool.

Don't take for granted that Bird is entitled to be enshrined close to Magic (who is a legitimate all-time great player).

Who isn't nominated and you're considering?

ceiling raiser · Post #35 » by **ceiling raiser** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 12:43 am

One_and_Done wrote:
ceiling raiser wrote:I'm planning to vote for Curry again, and plan on posting at length, but I'm really wondering what the affirmative case for Bird is.

I think the argument for Bird in the top 10 is very similar to the arguments used to diminish Garnett over the years, i.e. "KG was viewed as similar to Dirk, so he has to be closer to Dirk than Duncan". That's a load of crap. In reality, I think the net has been hurting Magic. Just as the board has realized Duncan and Garnett were peers, Jordan and Magic were peers. Both sets of guys have very similar arguments all-time. The only difference is, Dirk is a +/- monster, who warrants top 10 consideration. Bird is...not.

In reality, I wonder if we should view Bird as closer to Dr. J, who is out of most people's top 20s.

This might be surprising to hear, but I am considering Kobe for my alternate vote. I have a number of other players who have not yet been voted in ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list, however none are in the current nomination pool.

Don't take for granted that Bird is entitled to be enshrined close to Magic (who is a legitimate all-time great player).

Who isn't nominated and you're considering?

Would consider Dirk, Robinson, Nash, Stockton.

One_and_Done · Post #36 » by **One_and_Done** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 1:12 am

The first 3 are great choices.

iggymcfrack · Post #37 » by **iggymcfrack** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 1:29 am

trelos6 wrote:

How I see the next big group of candidates.

Each category is inclusive, so 1MVP season is also counted as a weak MVP, all nba and all star season.

Very curious how you get 13 all-NBA and 14 all-star seasons for Durant compared to only 10 all-NBA and 10 all-star seasons for Robinson. The way I see it, Robinson has 10 slam dunk seasons: ‘90, ‘91, ‘93-‘95, and ‘97-‘01. KD has ‘10-‘14, ‘16-‘18, and ‘21 for 9 slam dunk seasons.

Robinson has the injury in ‘92 where he plays 68 games and misses the playoffs, but was very good in the regular season. KD wasn’t very good in ‘08 or ‘09 and missed the playoffs, had a playoff injury in ‘19, played 55 games in ‘22 before playing so bad in the playoffs that the Nets probably would have been better off if he didn’t play, and then played 47 games last year before having another **** playoffs.

Even if you’re generous to KD’s 18/19 and 22/23 and classify them one level higher than Robinson’s ‘92 season, I would still say Robinson’s 11th best season is better than Durant’s 12th best season. But you somehow put KD’s 13th best season 2 levels ahead of Robinson’s 11th.

rk2023 · Post #38 » by **rk2023** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 1:48 am

Durant’s strong MVP span for me is 2012 (maybe?), 13-14, 16-19 for me. Post achilles, I’m not as high due to load management in 2021 and a dip in production since then.

Robinson’s for me would be 1990-91, 93 (maybe?), 94-96, 98-99 (maybe). 92 is on the fringes, as I deduct for his time missed.

So as high as 7 for Durant and 8 for Robinson.

One_and_Done · Post #39 » by **One_and_Done** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 2:20 am

rk2023 wrote:Durant’s strong MVP span for me is 2012 (maybe?), 13-14, 16-19 for me. Post achilles, I’m not as high due to load management in 2021 and a dip in production since then.

Robinson’s for me would be 1990-91, 93 (maybe?), 94-96, 98-99 (maybe). 92 is on the fringes, as I deduct for his time missed.

So as high as 7 for Durant and 8 for Robinson.

Post achilles Durant was still 95% as good as pre-Achilles KD probably. Certainly his stats still suggest as much, and blow Kobe out of the water.

rk2023 · Post #40 » by **rk2023** » Wed Aug 2, 2023 2:21 am

One_and_Done wrote:
rk2023 wrote:Durant’s strong MVP span for me is 2012 (maybe?), 13-14, 16-19 for me. Post achilles, I’m not as high due to load management in 2021 and a dip in production since then.

Robinson’s for me would be 1990-91, 93 (maybe?), 94-96, 98-99 (maybe). 92 is on the fringes, as I deduct for his time missed.

So as high as 7 for Durant and 8 for Robinson.

Post achilles Durant was still 95% as good as pre-Achilles KD probably. Certainly his stats still suggest as much, and blow Kobe out of the water.

How did that efficient scoring and face value Offensive rating look against Boston or Denver? Though nobody mentioned him, what In those stats suggest blowing Kobe out of the water?