Sid Moncreif v. Kawhi Leonard

[DNice68]

Kawhi easily.

[Cavsfansince84]

I always wonder with 80s DPOYs how much of it was that the voters hadn't sorted out guard defender vs big defender impact just yet. Moncrief, Cooper, Alvin Robertson, Jordan...

And then over the subsequent three and a half decades... Gary Payton in 96, Artest in 04, Kawhi in 15 and 16, Marcus Smart in 2022 and everyone else is a big.

Alvin Robertson is an easy one; that was all Steals Per Game hypnosis. And to some extent, the same was true of Jordan with his exciting weakside blocks and lane-picking and all that. It's tough to crap on guys like Moncrief and Cooper and Payton who were all outstanding defenders, though, so it remains an interesting thought to me.

The bolded always seems really strange for me to fully grasp though given that there was such a huge way of thinking in terms of building title teams around a center who could be the defensive anchor going back to the 50's. This is also evident in terms of mvps(really mostly all centers getting them up till the mid 80's) so it just seems strange to me that voters at the time wouldn't have understood the defensive value of centers relative to guards/wings.

[tsherkin]

The bolded always seems really strange for me to fully grasp though given that there was such a huge way of thinking in terms of building title teams around a center who could be the defensive anchor going back to the 50's. This is also evident in terms of mvps(really mostly all centers getting them up till the mid 80's) so it just seems strange to me that voters at the time wouldn't have understood the defensive value of centers relative to guards/wings.

In MVPs, yes, but not in DPOYs. It's an interesting space, which is why I often wonder about it. Eaton it in 85 and 89, but is otherwise the only big to win it until David Robinson in 92. Rodman won a pair just before that, but he was a combo forward. It was just a very interesting time early in the award.

[kcktiny]

it just seems strange to me that voters at the time wouldn't have understood the defensive value of centers relative to guards/wings.

but not in DPOYs

So then who in your opinion should have been named DPOY in 1982-83 and 1983-84 if not Moncrief?

[Cavsfansince84]

In MVPs, yes, but not in DPOYs. It's an interesting space, which is why I often wonder about it. Eaton it in 85 and 89, but is otherwise the only big to win it until David Robinson in 92. Rodman won a pair just before that, but he was a combo forward. It was just a very interesting time early in the award.

My point was that I think the value of a center who is a def anchor was well known but the media at the time was choosing to go against it just because they could. Same as the media likes to gatekeep who can get mvps now.

[tsherkin]

In MVPs, yes, but not in DPOYs. It's an interesting space, which is why I often wonder about it. Eaton it in 85 and 89, but is otherwise the only big to win it until David Robinson in 92. Rodman won a pair just before that, but he was a combo forward. It was just a very interesting time early in the award.

My point was that I think the value of a center who is a def anchor was well known but the media at the time was choosing to go against it just because they could. Same as the media likes to gatekeep who can get mvps now.

Maybe. I think team record likely impacted things as well.

[Cavsfansince84]

Maybe. I think team record likely impacted things as well.

That could have been another factor(similar to mvp voting).