Franchise Big Man take 2

[Bwelc679]

Imagine you are the GM of an NBA expansion team: "The Las Vegas Strippers" (the name is a work in progress).

Adam Silver has gifted you the opportunity to start off your franchise with your choice of one of the best big man "What if" prospects of all time. Which one would you choose to lead your Franchise towards championship contention? What order do you rank their ability to do so if they were to play today?

For the sake of this argument please consider THEIR INJURY CONCERNS AS NON EXISTENT and that thanks to modern medicine you will be able to avoid catastrophes. I am attempting to put them at the age of where they would be coming into the league. Since it's the new modern NBA I am hoping to hear some analysis as to why people think player X would be great in today's space and pace league OR why player Y would struggle with the changes.

1. Victor Wembanyama- New kid on the block. We all know who he is and what he's capable of so I won't write much. He's 19 in this scenario and the youngest prospect which is probably a plus in most GMs minds.

2. Greg Oden- This 7 footer is not as tall as Wemby but at the ripe age of 19 he just showed the world what he is capable of by leading his team to the national title game while at Ohio State. Scouts are in awe with his ability to guard at the perimeter and then switch back to the post and protect the rim so seamlessly. His agility at his size is uncanny.

3. Ralph Sampson- At 7-4 Ralph is almost as lanky as Wemby. He is the oldest prospect on this list approaching age 23 but he just won 3 national player of the year awards and dominant the college basketball scene like very few ever have. Scouts salvate at mouth watching Ralph bring the ball up court on his own with his guard like abilities in such a long frame. Bill Russell states that if Ralph reaches his potential, he will be talked about and considered one of the greatest players to ever play. Players aren't always the best at recognizing future talent but that's an incredible compliment to receive from one of the GOATs.

4. Arvydas Sabonis- This 7-3 gargantuan human is a spectacle in his own right. At the age of 22 (pre Achilles tear) he is the second oldest prospect but has many accolades from international play as he has been playing since he turned 16. Sabonis is the complete package when it comes to shooting, passing and defense and will draw comparisons to the NBAs finals MVP last year Jokic. Some scouts are concerned that he will struggle in the high PnR coverage more than the other prospects. One last concern is that somehow his son is older than him. Adam Silver is yet to comment on that morality of that issue.

Bill Walton- This last prospect had an incredible career at UCLA and claims to be 6-11 when in reality he is a sturdy 7-2. He will be 22 years old during his rookie season making him the third oldest prospect in the group. He is a tremendous defender, passer, and crafty scorer (nice bank shot) with a knack for performing well in the biggest stage. Scouts tend to agree he is by far the most complete and fundamentally sound of all the prospects but they also question if he will have the tools "athletically" to compete with the speed and vertical game in today's NBA.

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[70sFan]

I'd take Walton easily and I don't think he'd have any issues with modern athleticism.

Sabonis would be very interesting though, he was extremely talented.

[penbeast0]

Agree, Walton easily. Sabonis, Victor, Sampson for the modern game, Oden after Sabonis for older games. Connie Hawkins in the conversation too as he was the pivot presence for his MVP season in the ABA (more a Giannis type but with a pivot game) and still a 1st level All-NBA player when he reinvented himself after the knee injury to make himself more of a jump shooter before the second knee injury.

[Dutchball97]

Walton benefits here from us actually having seen just how good he was even if it was only for 2 partial seasons. With a healthy Walton you guarantee yourself perennial MVP-level play and most likely a top 10 all-time career.

I'd go Sabonis second because while he might not have reached his full potential in the NBA, he did prove himself in Europe and I feel like his style would translate very well to the modern game.

Wembanyama is in the middle for now. Sky seems to be the limit for him but it's unknown how much of that potential he will be able to tap into. I wouldn't be surprised if he moved up to 2nd or even 1st eventually but at this point it'd be less of a sure thing than Walton and Sabonis.

I don't see the GOAT potential in Sampson or Oden tbh. Sampson would've been a consistent star but I'm not confident or knowledgable enough about him to expect him to have a better career than the above 3 but I would still probably take him over Oden.

[penbeast0]

Remember that people thought Durant would have been the #1 pick in almost any other year of the decade but the clear consensus was that Oden was a generational defensive star with strong offensive potential . . . think Kevin Garnett/David Robinson caliber with a floor of Patrick Ewing if healthy. Whether that was accurate or not, I didn't see him that much but that was the impression.

[SHAQ32]

Was Ralph better than Brad Daugherty?

[Dr Positivity]

If you actually have to go with what you knew before the draft

1. Ralph Sampson - My impression is Sampson was the mega prospect of the decade almost seen like Alcindor coming in to the league for them. Furthermore, he is a good fit for the modern game. The only downside is he’s unrealistically old for when he’d get drafted now. We know now that Sampson wasn’t going to become that superstar even if he stayed healthy, but if we’re going with pre draft information I’d put him first.

2. Bill Walton - Walton had proven his talent and intangibles in college and the injury stuff is wiped away in this scenario.

3. Victor Wembanyama - Wemby is considered potentially generational but mystery of the international guy pushes him below the NCAA star Walton.

4. Arvydas Sabonis - I don’t how people thought of him at 22 and like Wemby he is European player and not as athletic as Wemby so some people may doubt him.

5. Greg Oden - Oden suffers the most from the style of play difference as a low spacing big man, as opposed to when he came in when people had seen Duncan and Shaq win most of the titles recently. His college career while having good advanced stats was less spectacular than Durant's, so I think he drops compared to his 07 status.

[Doctor MJ]

Imagine you are the GM of an NBA expansion team: "The Las Vegas Strippers" (the name is a work in progress).

Adam Silver has gifted you the opportunity to start off your franchise with your choice of one of the best big man "What if" prospects of all time. Which one would you choose to lead your Franchise towards championship contention? What order do you rank their ability to do so if they were to play today?

For the sake of this argument please consider THEIR INJURY CONCERNS AS NON EXISTENT and that thanks to modern medicine you will be able to avoid catastrophes. I am attempting to put them at the age of where they would be coming into the league. Since it's the new modern NBA I am hoping to hear some analysis as to why people think player X would be great in today's space and pace league OR why player Y would struggle with the changes.

1. Victor Wembanyama- New kid on the block. We all know who he is and what he's capable of so I won't write much. He's 19 in this scenario and the youngest prospect which is probably a plus in most GMs minds.

2. Greg Oden- This 7 footer is not as tall as Wemby but at the ripe age of 19 he just showed the world what he is capable of by leading his team to the national title game while at Ohio State. Scouts are in awe with his ability to guard at the perimeter and then switch back to the post and protect the rim so seamlessly. His agility at his size is uncanny.

3. Ralph Sampson- At 7-4 Ralph is almost as lanky as Wemby. He is the oldest prospect on this list approaching age 23 but he just won 3 national player of the year awards and dominant the college basketball scene like very few ever have. Scouts salvate at mouth watching Ralph bring the ball up court on his own with his guard like abilities in such a long frame. Bill Russell states that if Ralph reaches his potential, he will be talked about and considered one of the greatest players to ever play. Players aren't always the best at recognizing future talent but that's an incredible compliment to receive from one of the GOATs.

4. Arvydas Sabonis- This 7-3 gargantuan human is a spectacle in his own right. At the age of 22 (pre Achilles tear) he is the second oldest prospect but has many accolades from international play as he has been playing since he turned 16. Sabonis is the complete package when it comes to shooting, passing and defense and will draw comparisons to the NBAs finals MVP last year Jokic. Some scouts are concerned that he will struggle in the high PnR coverage more than the other prospects. One last concern is that somehow his son is older than him. Adam Silver is yet to comment on that morality of that issue.

Bill Walton- This last prospect had an incredible career at UCLA and claims to be 6-11 when in reality he is a sturdy 7-2. He will be 22 years old during his rookie season making him the third oldest prospect in the group. He is a tremendous defender, passer, and crafty scorer (nice bank shot) with a knack for performing well in the biggest stage. Scouts tend to agree he is by far the most complete and fundamentally sound of all the prospects but they also question if he will have the tools "athletically" to compete with the speed and vertical game in today's NBA.

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So, at this moment I'll go:

1. Sabonis
2. Walton
3. Wemby
4. Oden
5. Sampson

In a nutshell:

2 of these 5 guys have outlier basketball brains and makes all the difference. Now, time will tell with Wemby - maybe he joins that category, but it seems unlikely to me - but the other two were not in this category.

Between Sabonis & Walton I'm honestly not sure at all. Big what-ifs, but Sabonis was bigger, a better shooter, and I'm finding is a lot more impactful in his post-prime (NBA) years that I ever expected. Walton's most explosive and a better defender I expect - also you can argue that he was actually at his peak at UCLA and that injuries are the reason he couldn't score that well in the pros.

While I'm not in love with Oden's BBIQ, I remember those NCAA Finals where he was facing off against both Joakim Noah and Al Horford, and they were both utterly overmatched. I think it's fair to say that a healthy Oden is a many-year All-NBA player.

Sampson? Well, I'm struck by anecdotes about not only his height being exaggerated, but his length being disappointing. If memory serves, Bill Russell told a story of when they were both employed in Sacramento and went and compared vertical reach. Both were shocked that Russell's reach was higher than Sampson's, given that listed at 7'4" Sampson was supposed to be the next generation version of the listed at 6'9" Russell. Of course it seems clear that Sampson wasn't actually 7 inches taller than Russell (maybe more like 4-5 inches), and Russell's arm length was just plain extreme.

This then to say, I think the hype around Sampson was misplaced, and that he pretty much reached what he was capable of peak-wise. I'd also be more bullish on him as a more modern type of stretch big if I actually saw signs that he was gifted at shooting, but I really don't.

[Doctor MJ]

Agree, Walton easily. Sabonis, Victor, Sampson for the modern game, Oden after Sabonis for older games. Connie Hawkins in the conversation too as he was the pivot presence for his MVP season in the ABA (more a Giannis type but with a pivot game) and still a 1st level All-NBA player when he reinvented himself after the knee injury to make himself more of a jump shooter before the second knee injury.

The Hawk reference makes me happy.

I think he's hard for me to place in a "big man" conversation because he really couldn't do big man man-defense. You might have Connie be your jump center and help defense anchor, but you'd have to have at least one other guy out there with him to handle strong bodies (against post-ups, etc).

I will say that I see his offense to be ahead of any of the other guys listed though.

[Doctor MJ]

Was Ralph better than Brad Daugherty?

I don't think so.

[homecourtloss]

1. Walton. I think his skillset would translate well in any era. From high school, to college, to his NBA career, he was an impact monster, and his team was difficult to defeat with him on court. One of my favorite players ever to watch.

2. Sabonis. Older, post injury, fatter Sabonis was a defensive monster (-4.3 career in JE’s RS+PS set from 1997 to 2003, when Sabonis was 33-38 years old) in his later years. Injured Sabonis. Now imagine a non-Injured Sabonis who is lighter on his feet.

3. Wemby — I have him third here because we don’t know what’s going to happen, whereas we do know what happened with the other two. His play in preseason has been really, really encouraging, though.

3. Ralph Sampson- At 7-4 Ralph is almost as lanky as Wemby. He is the oldest prospect on this list approaching age 23 but he just won 3 national player of the year awards and dominant the college basketball scene like very few ever have. Scouts salvate at mouth watching Ralph bring the ball up court on his own with his guard like abilities in such a long frame. Bill Russell states that if Ralph reaches his potential, he will be talked about and considered one of the greatest players to ever play. Players aren't always the best at recognizing future talent but that's an incredible compliment to receive from one of the GOATs.

Ralph Sampson certainly underachieved, and that’s even without his injuries and his questionable off court behavior. He never had the best basketball IQ, his motor was questionable; I also think that he wasn’t used optimally in Houston but I was difficult because you had a large one there, too. Also, it’s interesting that he has always been labeled a 7’4” when he was not taller than Kareem.

[penbeast0]

Was Ralph better than Brad Daugherty?

I don't think so.

Offensively It's not close. Sampson had a couple of 20 ppg seasons early on but he was never efficient nor a good passer. Daugherty was a more consistent 20 ppg scorer and pretty efficient (.075 ts% better than Sampson career) and a better passer and offensive rebounder to boot.

I would give Sampson the defensive edge, Daugherty was a bit below average for a starting NBA center, but it's not as big as the offensive edge.

[Colbinii]

Walton = Victor > Sampson > Sabonis > Oden

[dygaction]

Wenby - - - Walton - Sabonis - Sampson/Oden -

[70sFan]

Walton = Victor > Sampson > Sabonis > Oden

What makes you think Sampson was more talented or a better prospect than Sabonis?

[70sFan]

Wenby - - - Walton - Sabonis - Sampson/Oden -

So you think it's a given that Wemby will peak higher than Walton (basically universal top 15 peak ever) without health issues?

[dygaction]

Wenby - - - Walton - Sabonis - Sampson/Oden -

So you think it's a given that Wemby will peak higher than Walton (basically universal top 15 peak ever) without health issues?

Yes, I think Wendy has goat potential

[Colbinii]

Wenby - - - Walton - Sabonis - Sampson/Oden -

So you think it's a given that Wemby will peak higher than Walton (basically universal top 15 peak ever) without health issues?

Yes, I think Wendy has goat potential

So did Walton.

[Colbinii]

Walton = Victor > Sampson > Sabonis > Oden

What makes you think Sampson was more talented or a better prospect than Sabonis?

I'm trying to look at these players as prospects and apply that to when they were prospects.

Essentially, take them and all the tools, abilities and skills they had and apply that to the era they played in, along with a little bit of hindsight and in-era revisionism.

For Sampson vs Sabonis, the biggest difference is euro [non-americans in general] weren't seen as the same level prospects as Americans in the 1970s and 1980s. Jump ahead to the early 2000s and guys like Bogut and Darko were seen by the league as a whole as elite, #1 Overall level prospects.