RealGM 2023 Top 100 Project - #41 (Artis Gilmore)

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Re: RealGM 2023 Top 100 Project - #41 (Deadline 5:00AM PST on 11/6/23) 

Post#21 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Nov 6, 2023 3:33 pm

Induction Vote 1:

Artis - 7 (beast, AEnigma, Samurai, hcl, Clyde, Doc, OSNB)
Baylor - 1 (trex)
Howard - 2 (Ambrose, trelos)
Davis - 2 (iggy, HBK)

Artis Gilmore is Inducted at #41.

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Nomination Vote 1:

Green - 4 (beast, hcl, Doc, OSNB)
Drexler - 3 (trex, Ambrose, Clyde)
Pierce - 1 (AEnigma)
Embiid - 1 (trelos)
Westbrook - 2 (Samurai, iggy)
Reed - 1 (HBK)

No majority. Going to Vote 2 between Green & Drexler.

Green - 0 (none)
Drexler - 0 (none)
neither - 5 (AEnigma, trelos, Samurai, iggy, HBK)

Draymond Green 4, Clyde Drexler 3

Draymond Green is added to Nominee list.

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Re: RealGM 2023 Top 100 Project - #41 (Deadline 5:00AM PST on 11/6/23) 

Post#22 » by Owly » Mon Nov 6, 2023 4:44 pm

70sFan wrote:
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:I still am skeptical about Gilmore's actual impact in the NBA - he raised the Bulls' floor decently from 24 to 44 wins, -2.89 SRS to 0.92 SRS, but lost in the first round, and I don't know that he raised the Spurs' ceiling at all, considering they lost in the WCF to the Lakers without him in 1982 and did the same with him in 1983.

I understand the scepticism, but keep in mind that:

1. The Bulls lost in the first round in 1977, but they faced the best team in the league and it's not like they got crushed.

2. About Spurs situation, it's worth mentioning two things:

- Gilmore was in his 12th season when he joined the Spurs and he was 33. It wasn't the case of prime player joining a good team and failing to reach the title. If we want to compare that to Dwight or even Ewing, I don't think it looks favorably to them at all.
- it's true that the Spurs lost in WCF both years, but it wouldn't be fair to say they played at similar level. In 1982, the Spurs lost 0-4 against the Lakers with the average margin of 8.7 ppg. In comparison, in 1983 the Spurs lost in 6 games and they lost the series only by 3.3 ppg and they lost game 6 by one point - almost forcing game 7. Gilmore averaged 20/14/2 with 3 bpg even with the first game when he was in foul trouble. Without game 1, he averaged 22/15/2 with 2.5 bpg and staggering efficiency (64 TS%).

Also the Spurs sent out 2 competent (league average-ish in final season) rotation players, giving up 4000 minutes of competence from the bigs, Gilmore is better but they could lose out on the bench. Then Jones (probably just variance) and Paultz (shouldn't be in the rotation any more) hurt the Spurs in the playoffs.

Also '83 Lakers are a little better than the '82 version just off the RS (and team like LA with 2 titles in 3 years are quite often a little deflated by SRS versus real quality as they don't seek to maximize RS wins. On the other hand they are without Worthy who had been healthy most of the RS (though 6th in RS minutes, cane off the bench [25.6mpg]) and was pretty NBA ready for a rookie.

As was noted above the margin seems a lot closer but in any case it's somewhat janky tool off a pretty small sample. If one thinks Gilmore cramped Gervin's style ... okay I guess (though he didn't exactly bounce back in Chicago) but if Gervin is taking a jump back from superstardom (as box composites tend to suggest to varying degrees) that sort of thing (obviously one would have to go much deeper down the rosters to do this properly, just looking at the first Spurs "star"-name player here) would make the real terms implied impact of Gilmore greater.

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