Who would you rather build your team around - Dame, Butler or Stockton?

[ShotCreator]

You mean like how he was 4th in the MVP vote? Or how he led a meh Blazers team to a conference finals? Or how he makes the Blazers an elite offense when he's on the floor. Dame isa rival with Curry or Harden on offence. GMs would laugh at the idea of taking a borderline all-nba talent like Stockton over him.

Dame had to lead weak support casts to success. Stockton was someone's Robin.

You mean 2018 when he didn't get a single first votes? Seriously? Nobody considered Lillard an MVP player in 2018, which is why nobody voted him for that.

Lillard got his team to WCF by facing weak competition. Allen Iverson led his team to the finals, do you think he was a better player than Clippers Paul?

No, Lillard is not Curry or Harden rival. GMs would laugh at the idea of considering him over these two.

What are you expecting from Lillard next to Giannis? Sounds like you think it was a mistake to trade for him.

I mean, yeah, it was. Speaking for myself of course.

But it’s a big name move that probably keeps Giannis around.

The 2018 WCFR where Jrue Holiday tormented Lillard on both ends to the point of actually accumulating more impact than a prime Anthony Davis, is NOT a misrepresentation of the playoff play gap between these guards.

Jrue Holiday has a much, much better NBA playoff career, on merit, due to the performance, forget title runs and playoff wins, just pure performance wise, a better player in the postseason, by far.

[ShotCreator]

I like it when superstars who are on teams without any buzz go to teams with a national spotlight and get exposed - good or bad - for what they really are.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/

Damian Lillard is playing the worst defense of his career, and it might cost more than just the Bucks

No system works if the best players aren't committed, and at the moment, to suggest Lillard is uncommitted to playing defense would be an understatement. In reality, the guy is playing some of the laziest, flat-out worst defense of his career, and that is really saying something for a guy who has always been a pretty apathetic defender. It's been borderline disgraceful at times.

But this isn't the worst defense of his career. This is Damian Lillard.

This reminds me of when Harden went to the Nets in 21, played WORSE than he did for the Rockets in 20 on both ends, and got so much acclaim for his skill and underrated outer edges parts of his game like help D, and IQ from Nets fans, NBA fans, and especially East Coast media.

They should peak later in the season and play better, but between losing Holiday and Budenholzer, this should be a wrap for Milwaukee. Shame it was probably the only way to keep Giannis.

I wish more team had the balls to trade guys like Giannis and say Harden on the Rockets before things spiral out of control and the trade value isn't there anymore.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I like it when superstars who are on teams without any buzz go to teams with a national spotlight and get exposed - good or bad - for what they really are.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/

Damian Lillard is playing the worst defense of his career, and it might cost more than just the Bucks

No system works if the best players aren't committed, and at the moment, to suggest Lillard is uncommitted to playing defense would be an understatement. In reality, the guy is playing some of the laziest, flat-out worst defense of his career, and that is really saying something for a guy who has always been a pretty apathetic defender. It's been borderline disgraceful at times.

But this isn't the worst defense of his career. This is Damian Lillard.

This reminds me of when Harden went to the Nets in 21, played WORSE than he did for the Rockets in 20 on both ends, and got so much acclaim for his skill and underrated outer edges parts of his game like help D, and IQ from Nets fans, NBA fans, and especially East Coast media.

They should peak later in the season and play better, but between losing Holiday and Budenholzer, this should be a wrap for Milwaukee. Shame it was probably the only way to keep Giannis.

I wish more team had the balls to trade guys like Giannis and say Harden on the Rockets before things spiral out of control and the trade value isn't there anymore.

Why budenholzer lmfao

Edit: I didn’t even see the giannis part

[penbeast0]

I think it's pretty safe to say Dame is a more impactful player than Stockton lol. Dame can carry a great offence and is a legit MVP calibre guy. Stockton is a borderline all-nba guy.

I don't think it's safe to say at all. Lilliard scores at greater volumes so casual fans certainly would vote for him first. Stockton has major advantage in playmaking, defense, and is even more efficient relative to era. The impact stats we have show him to have more impact than Lilliard even if we only have late career games for Stockton.

[One_and_Done]

I think it's pretty safe to say Dame is a more impactful player than Stockton lol. Dame can carry a great offence and is a legit MVP calibre guy. Stockton is a borderline all-nba guy.

I don't think it's safe to say at all. Lilliard scores at greater volumes so casual fans certainly would vote for him first. Stockton has major advantage in playmaking, defense, and is even more efficient relative to era. The impact stats we have show him to have more impact than Lilliard even if we only have late career games for Stockton.

I take impact stats with a grain of salt for reasons I have explained, but at least when Iggy or some stat zealot uses them they do it consistently. I find it hard to believe you would revisit your opinions about Bill Russell or Wilt or other old timers if we somehow got impact stats for them that said they sucked.

[Colbinii]

I like it when superstars who are on teams without any buzz go to teams with a national spotlight and get exposed - good or bad - for what they really are.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/

Damian Lillard is playing the worst defense of his career, and it might cost more than just the Bucks

No system works if the best players aren't committed, and at the moment, to suggest Lillard is uncommitted to playing defense would be an understatement. In reality, the guy is playing some of the laziest, flat-out worst defense of his career, and that is really saying something for a guy who has always been a pretty apathetic defender. It's been borderline disgraceful at times.

But this isn't the worst defense of his career. This is Damian Lillard.

This reminds me of when Harden went to the Nets in 21, played WORSE than he did for the Rockets in 20 on both ends, and got so much acclaim for his skill and underrated outer edges parts of his game like help D, and IQ from Nets fans, NBA fans, and especially East Coast media.

They should peak later in the season and play better, but between losing Holiday and Budenholzer, this should be a wrap for Milwaukee. Shame it was probably the only way to keep Giannis.

I wish more team had the balls to trade guys like Giannis and say Harden on the Rockets before things spiral out of control and the trade value isn't there anymore.

Why budenholzer lmfao

Edit: I didn’t even see the giannis part

Budenholzer is one of the better RS Coaches of the modern era.

[penbeast0]

I think it's pretty safe to say Dame is a more impactful player than Stockton lol. Dame can carry a great offence and is a legit MVP calibre guy. Stockton is a borderline all-nba guy.

I don't think it's safe to say at all. Lilliard scores at greater volumes so casual fans certainly would vote for him first. Stockton has major advantage in playmaking, defense, and is even more efficient relative to era. The impact stats we have show him to have more impact than Lilliard even if we only have late career games for Stockton.

I take impact stats with a grain of salt for reasons I have explained, but at least when Iggy or some stat zealot uses them they do it consistently. I find it hard to believe you would revisit your opinions about Bill Russell or Wilt or other old timers if we somehow got impact stats for them that said they sucked.

I would take them as one more piece of evidence, as I have before. If you look back at the record of doing the top 100s, I've been here for a long time and when I came, I was voting Wilt #1. Evidence convinced me to move Russell and Jordan, then later LeBron ahead of him and if new evidence comes up I will weigh it against what I know, have seen, and have thought before.

And I have never dismissed your opinions, or anyone else's who tries to use evidence whether it be stats, witnesses, anecdotal, or personal viewing, nor dismissed evidence that disagreed with my conclusions with a "lol" but have tried to answer with reason and analysis.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I like it when superstars who are on teams without any buzz go to teams with a national spotlight and get exposed - good or bad - for what they really are.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/




But this isn't the worst defense of his career. This is Damian Lillard.

This reminds me of when Harden went to the Nets in 21, played WORSE than he did for the Rockets in 20 on both ends, and got so much acclaim for his skill and underrated outer edges parts of his game like help D, and IQ from Nets fans, NBA fans, and especially East Coast media.

They should peak later in the season and play better, but between losing Holiday and Budenholzer, this should be a wrap for Milwaukee. Shame it was probably the only way to keep Giannis.

I wish more team had the balls to trade guys like Giannis and say Harden on the Rockets before things spiral out of control and the trade value isn't there anymore.

Why budenholzer lmfao

Edit: I didn’t even see the giannis part

Budenholzer is one of the better RS Coaches of the modern era.

Regular season champs

[Colbinii]

Why budenholzer lmfao

Edit: I didn’t even see the giannis part

Budenholzer is one of the better RS Coaches of the modern era.

Regular season champs

Yup--a key reason Milwaukee is struggling right now.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Budenholzer is one of the better RS Coaches of the modern era.

Regular season champs

Yup--a key reason Milwaukee is struggling right now.

It is literally game 5 lmfao

[Colbinii]

Regular season champs

Yup--a key reason Milwaukee is struggling right now.

It is literally game 5 lmfao

Right, and when you go from a great RS coach to an unknown one, you are going to be worse.

Remember, the months leading upto the season, Adrian Griffin was planning everything [Defensive Rotations, Pick and Roll strategy, ect] with Jrue Holiday on the roster.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yup--a key reason Milwaukee is struggling right now.

It is literally game 5 lmfao

Right, and when you go from a great RS coach to an unknown one, you are going to be worse.

Remember, the months leading upto the season, Adrian Griffin was planning everything [Defensive Rotations, Pick and Roll strategy, ect] with Jrue Holiday on the roster.

Wasn’t he or ham the teams defensive coordinator?

[AEnigma]

Griffin was with Toronto.

[Colbinii]

It is literally game 5 lmfao

Right, and when you go from a great RS coach to an unknown one, you are going to be worse.

Remember, the months leading upto the season, Adrian Griffin was planning everything [Defensive Rotations, Pick and Roll strategy, ect] with Jrue Holiday on the roster.

Wasn’t he or ham the teams defensive coordinator?

Ham.

[Whiffyemperor]

Dame,best shooter and playmaker out of the bunch

[penbeast0]

Dame,best shooter and playmaker out of the bunch

Best scorer, Stockton is a better pure shooter even unadjusted for era, he has literally 20 points of efficiency on Dame for career. He just doesn't have Dame's ability to create for himself and Dame's aggression when it comes to scoring.

Stockton, and quite possibly Butler, are better playmakers.