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Russell Westbrook Requests To Come Off Bench For Clippers
VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
VanWest82 wrote:homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
In every thread, huh? Because I'm oh-so-active in so many threads trying to push this Russ narrative. **** off.
This doesn't dispell anything; instead, it's supportive of the fact that Lebron was an idiot for leaning on Lakers brass to trade away their depth and go all in on a big three. So yeah, they sucked when Lebron wasn't on the court because they had crappy players.
What was Russ's ind stats with Lebron on vs. off? How do those stats compare to Russ (non-injured) in Houston, Washington, and with the Clippers?
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
VanWest82 wrote:homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
In every thread, huh? Because I'm oh-so-active in so many threads trying to push this Russ narrative. **** off.
This doesn't dispell anything; instead, it's supportive of the fact that Lebron was an idiot for leaning on Lakers brass to trade away their depth and go all in on a big three. So yeah, they sucked when Lebron wasn't on the court because they had crappy players.
What was Russ's ind stats with Lebron on vs. off? How do those stats compare to Russ (non-injured) in Houston, Washington, and with the Clippers?
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
WestGOAT wrote:homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
Where do you get season splits for on court points differentials? Pbbstats only seems to have a filter for the entire regular season, playoffs, and RS + PS combined.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
WestGOAT wrote:homecourtloss wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Faulty premise. Russ was good on the Rockets and Wizards in the second half of those seasons once he was recovered from knee operations. He was good as soon as he was traded to Clippers. He was good to start this season pre-Harden.
He was a bad fit on the Lakers, and specfically with Lebron who many ball dominant stars have struggled to fit in with. For some reason we seem to be solely faulting Westbrook for that and lumping it in with his injury recoveries.
He's been the same player the entire time with the same strengths and weaknesses. He's never been a very successful PO guy, but the notion that he should've come off the bench sooner seems to be missing the point.
Once again, we have narratives being created even though there is data that is easily accessible and free that dispels these narratives but yet people like you in many threads continue to propagate them. The Lakers found a way for LeBron and Westbrook to work together this year, but the problem was that if LeBron wasn’t on the court the Lakers had too many gaps, not enough neutral or plus players, and Westbrook by himself on court couldn’t do anything.
Lakers in 2022-2023 with Westbrook
Westbrook + LeBron ON court (all games): 114.2 ORtg, 108.2 DRtg, +6.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after 2-10 start: 117.8 ORtg, 108.7 DRtg, +9.1 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF court (all games): 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court after AD’s injury in December (24 games): 118.7 ORtg, 103.9 DRtg, +14.8 NET
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court (all games): 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court (all games): 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
These are the numbers and they go against whatever narrative you try to push in every thread
Where do you get season splits for on court points differentials? Pbbstats only seems to have a filter for the entire regular season, playoffs, and RS + PS combined.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
penbeast0 wrote:Russell Westbrook Requests To Come Off Bench For Clippers
After the previous issues with the Rockets and Lakers, there was a lot of negativity about Westbrook's game not fitting in once he was no longer able to just dominate everyone physically. I liked his play with the Wizards and like that he seems to be trying to be a team guy as opposed to late career Iverson in Detroit for contrast.
How do you feel about his post prime career at the moment?
GREY wrote: He steps back into another time zone
Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think if anything it exposed what was seen as a weakness even more(mainly his bbiq/decision making criticisms). Chances are his bbiq has not declined. If anything, it almost always goes up as a player ages. So if its a major criticism of him in his 30's(along with the turnovers) then chances are it was being covered up due to athleticism and playing on talented teams in his 20's.
falcolombardi wrote:Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think if anything it exposed what was seen as a weakness even more(mainly his bbiq/decision making criticisms). Chances are his bbiq has not declined. If anything, it almost always goes up as a player ages. So if its a major criticism of him in his 30's(along with the turnovers) then chances are it was being covered up due to athleticism and playing on talented teams in his 20's.
I dont think he lost basketball IQ per se. (Albeit there is an argument he never really advanced his understanding of basketball and grew as a playmaker past 2016~ levels)
But i definetely think he weirdly lost his shoting touch as he aged, which combined with declining athletism in an athletism driven player was a perfect storm for a ugly decline
falcolombardi wrote:
I dont think he lost basketball IQ per se. (Albeit there is an argument he never really advanced his understanding of basketball and grew as a playmaker past 2016~ levels)
But i definetely think he weirdly lost his shoting touch as he aged, which combined with declining athletism in an athletism driven player was a perfect storm for a ugly decline