Retro POY 1956-57 (Voting Complete)

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Re: Retro POY 1956-57 (ends Mon morning) 

Post#61 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 am

'56-57 Results

Code: Select all

Player             1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Bob Pettit       11   1   1   0   0 122   0.938
2. Bill Russell      1   8   3   0   0  81   0.623
3. Dolph Schayes     0   3   5   3   2  57   0.438
4. Neil Johnston     0   0   3   5   2  32   0.246
5. Bob Cousy         1   1   0   4   2  31   0.238
6. Paul Arizin       0   0   1   0   2   7   0.054
7. Maurice Stokes    0   0   0   1   2   5   0.038
8. Bill Sharman      0   0   0   0   3   3   0.023
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Re: Retro POY 1956-57 (Voting Complete) 

Post#62 » by semi-sentient » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:05 pm

Site updated: http://www.dolem.com/poy

Russell comes just shy of 11 shares in his final year, and Bob Pettit makes an entry into the top 15, knocking off Moses Malone. What's crazy is that Pettit is likely going to pass up West after the next round of voting, and quite possibly Kobe and Hakeem after that assuming we continue. :o

Code: Select all

1.  Bill Russell         10.956
2.  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar  10.221
3.  Michael Jordan        9.578
4.  Wilt Chamberlain      7.818
5.  Magic Johnson         7.114
6.  Tim Duncan            6.153
7.  Larry Bird            6.147
8.  Shaquille O'Neal      5.910
9.  Julius Erving         5.046
10. Karl Malone           4.649
11. Oscar Robertson       4.413
12. Hakeem Olajuwon       4.380
13. Kobe Bryant           4.326
14. Jerry West            3.795
15. Bob Pettit            3.591
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Re: Retro POY 1956-57 (Voting Complete) 

Post#63 » by JordansBulls » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:17 pm

semi-sentient wrote:Site updated: http://www.dolem.com/poy

Russell comes just shy of 11 shares in his final year, and Bob Pettit makes an entry into the top 15, knocking off Moses Malone. What's crazy is that Pettit is likely going to pass up West after the next round of voting, and quite possibly Kobe and Hakeem after that assuming we continue. :o

Code: Select all

1.  Bill Russell         10.956
2.  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar  10.221
3.  Michael Jordan        9.578
4.  Wilt Chamberlain      7.818
5.  Magic Johnson         7.114
6.  Tim Duncan            6.153
7.  Larry Bird            6.147
8.  Shaquille O'Neal      5.910
9.  Julius Erving         5.046
10. Karl Malone           4.649
11. Oscar Robertson       4.413
12. Hakeem Olajuwon       4.380
13. Kobe Bryant           4.326
14. Jerry West            3.795
15. Bob Pettit            3.591


Well I think it is obvious that it is a lot easier to accumulate the shares in the first 20-25 years of NBA history because of the number of players in the league and the number of actually good players in the league.
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Re: Retro POY 1956-57 (ends Mon morning) 

Post#64 » by JordansBulls » Thu Dec 2, 2010 5:29 am

Doctor MJ wrote:'56-57 Results

Code: Select all

Player             1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Bob Pettit       11   1   1   0   0 122   0.938
2. Bill Russell      1   8   3   0   0  81   0.623
3. Dolph Schayes     0   3   5   3   2  57   0.438
4. Neil Johnston     0   0   3   5   2  32   0.246
5. Bob Cousy         1   1   0   4   2  31   0.238
6. Paul Arizin       0   0   1   0   2   7   0.054
7. Maurice Stokes    0   0   0   1   2   5   0.038
8. Bill Sharman      0   0   0   0   3   3   0.023


Still trying to figure out how Russell ended up this high when
1. He didn't make the allstar team.
2. He didn't make an all nba team
3. He didn't even win ROY.
4. His teammate Tom Heinsohn was ROY
5. His same teammate Tom Heinsohn that won ROY was on the all star team and showed up in game 7
6. His other teammate was league mvp

Something just doesn't seem right here.
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Re: Retro POY 1956-57 (Voting Complete) 

Post#65 » by eminence » Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:49 pm

1957's turn. Looking through teams, a bit of a stream of thought post. East absolutely dominated the West, as all 4 Eastern teams had better records than any Western team. Celtics the clear top team, everyone else within striking distance of average.

Royals - Turned the team over to the young Stokes/Twyman duo, strong defense, terrible offense. A promising start for the pair, but not in consideration for my top 5, some consideration for Allstar level seasons for CORP purposes.

Pistons - Yardley clearly at the offensive top of this heap, but Hutchins/Foust no longer anchoring a competent defense. They're not terrible overall, but not particularly good either. Yardley was a good player, but not top 5.

Lakers - A thoroughly average squad. Mikan's replacement Lovellette has a solid season, but clearly not living up to the legend (articles from the time indicate the constant comparisons wore on him). Slick Leonard randomly takes over in the playoffs, don't think Lovellette will make my top 5, but he'd probably be in my top 10.

Hawks - An experienced cast (Martin/McMahon/Coleman/Macauley) around the young star in Pettit and it pays off. Hagan gives us an early taste of his big game play rising to the occasion in the playoffs. But this is easily Pettit's team, and he's a pretty clear #1 overall.

Knicks - Sears probably headlines, but still a decent cast for the Knicks, no top 5s here. Braun doesn't have an efficient season like he was capable of, Clifton was always too inefficient for my tastes, and Gallatin was starting to fade.

Warriors - Defending champs lose Gola to the military. Still post the league's best offense, but the defense is not good. Arizin gets injured in game 1 of the playoffs and the Nationals send them packing. Johnston will certainly still be on my ballot and Arizin may be as well.

Nationals - MOV worse than record would indicate, so they were gutting out some close ones this season. Older cast around Schayes has mostly faded and he stands out clearly as the star. Kerr has a nice series to eliminate the Warriors, but can't stand up to Russell in the next round. Schayes looked fine against the Celtics, but the team didn't push them at all. Schayes will be in my top 5, I'm leaning towards over Johnston, but could go either way.

Celtics - Clear class of the league (though the Hawks did give them a serious Finals), and one of the more interesting teams to evaluate ever imo. The former offense first and last Celtics suddenly turn themselves into the clear best defense in the league and an average offense. Looking at the turn around at least some of it occurred prior to Russell's return from the Olympics (a fairly unique situation to handle in evaluation in NBA history as well - not something that would happen today, and not the same as an injury). Cousy/Sharman continue to look good on offense and the rooks powered the defense. Loscutoff I don't think was particularly good (one of the worst high minutes guys in the league). But that top 4 was loaded (Cousy/Sharman/Heinsohn/Russell). Not directly '57 but I think we see decent WOWY evidence for Heinsohn with his retirement (Russell's even more impressive). Sharman I don't have as top 5 contender level, but I can see arguments for all of the other 3 in the top 5.

Top 5 vote:
1. Bob Pettit (Fringe MVP) - Probably the best non-Mikan season in history to this point ('56 Arizin as reasonable competition), the team around him was experienced and solid, but lacking in star power and they got to within an inch of winning the title over a very strong Celtics squad. Easy #1.

2. Dolph Schayes (All-NBA) - A similar but lesser version of Pettit, cast was simply massively overmatched by the Celtics in their matchup (Schayes may have been the best player in the series, but 2-5 were all Boston).

3. Bill Russell (All-NBA) - Already the best defender and rebounder in the world (probably not quite as good on D as his best, but very very good), lesser offensive role than he'd grow into. But missed games are at least a small ding, and frankly I think both Schayes and Pettit outplayed him in the playoffs head-to-head (not that he played overly poorly, or you couldn't prefer him in those series).

4. Neil Johnston (All-NBA) - Another great statistical season, but that team defensive rating gives me some pause that he may have been more captured by the box-score than some other better defenders of the era (namely the 3 above). With Arizin down the Warriors frankly didn't have the horses to compete in the playoffs, so no shame in losing there. I think this is his reasonable floor and could see 2-4 in just about any order.

5. Tom Heinsohn (Allstar) - A pretty tough decision, Cousy and Arizin were right there. I think Arizin was clearly the better player, but the playoff injury was enough to drop him. Heinsohn showing solid defensive impact prior to Russell returning from the Olympics and then being the Celtics top scorer in their playoff run was enough to make it even with Cousy for me, and I wound up showing a little love to a guy who hasn't gotten as much historically.
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