Best defensive players of all time

[kcktiny]

I know Eaton won 2 DPOY, but I believe he'd be unplayable in today's game

I think this may be true of Eaton who was slow afoot

While Wilt is probably overrated as a functional athlete when it comes to basketball, this might be the first time I've ever heard anyone say he wasn't explosive. Lakers Wilt maybe, early Wilt was plenty explosive.

Correct.

Anyone saying Chamberlain wasn't explosive clearly did not see him play when he was young, in the early to mid 60s. This is a player that entered the NBA as a collegiate champion in track and field:

Wilt was an outstanding track and field athlete in both high school and college. As a sprinter, he ran a 10.9 second 100-yard and a 20.9 second 220-yard dash, respectively. In the middle distances, Wilt ran a 49.0 second 440-yard and a 1:58.3 880-yard dash. In field events, Wilt threw the shotput 56’, triple jumped more than 50’, and was the Big Eight Conference high jump champion during his three-year tenure at Kansas. If Wilt dedicated himself solely to track and field (his favorite sport) instead of basketball, there is a strong probability that he could have represented the 1960 U.S. Olympic Track and Field Team in several events at the XVII Olympiad in Rome, Italy.

I don't think people realize how athletic and explosive you have to be to triple jump over 50 feet, or be a collegiate high jump champion.

Same with anyone calling Eaton slow afoot, or lumbering, or some such derogatory adjective about his basketball ability. Old Eaton, age 30+, like late 80s/early 90s, yes. But not early/young Eaton.

There is not a lot of video of a young Eaton on You Tube (ages 25-28). But what is there shows Eaton as mobile as any 7-4 player that ever played in the league. Here he has no problem getting up and down the floor:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Also fans today have no idea what it's like to have a truly dominant shot blocker on their team like Eaton.

The past decade - the last 10 years - only one time did a player block more than 220 shots in a season (Whiteside with 269 in 2015-16). And only 6 times in those 10 seasons did a player block 200+ shots in a season.

In the past two decades a player blocked 300+ shots in a season just once (Theo Ratliff with 307 in 2003-04), 250+ shots in a season just four times.

Yet right now in 2023-24 teams average 5.2 blocked shots per game, taking a ton of 3pters. From 1983-84 to 1985-86 teams blocked a closely similar 5.3 shots per game. But Eaton from 1983-84 to 1985-86 averaged 392 blocked shots a season, playing an average of just 2500 minutes a season (just 31 min/g).

And from 1982-83 to 1989-90 Utah was the best defensive team in the league (103.2 pts/100poss allowed), allowing a league lowest 47.0% 2pt FG%, and Eaton played by far the most minutes on the team (2300 minutes more than any other Jazz player, 1/8 of the team's total minutes played).

[LA Bird]

Recently came across this video on Rodman's defense in the 1988 Finals and figured this would be a good place to share:

Watch on YouTube

[Warriors Analyst]

Draymond > Rodman ?

People here agree with that?

Absolutely. Over the last 10 years, Draymond has been the most valuable defender in the league by far. While Rodman did get a couple DPOYs, does anyone really believe that he was as valuable defensively as Hakeem or D-Rob? He was very good at what he did, but he didn’t impact the game like an elite rim protector. Draymond absolutely does.

Dray has a career average of 1 block per game.

Rodman guarded Jordan to Shaq at a high level.

We have numbers showing that between 2015-2021, Draymond was only marginally worse at rim protection than Gobert or Embiid. At his height, that's bonkers and I think that his shot-blocking numbers are less important than his deterrence is.

[eminence]

Absolutely. Over the last 10 years, Draymond has been the most valuable defender in the league by far. While Rodman did get a couple DPOYs, does anyone really believe that he was as valuable defensively as Hakeem or D-Rob? He was very good at what he did, but he didn’t impact the game like an elite rim protector. Draymond absolutely does.

Dray has a career average of 1 block per game.

Rodman guarded Jordan to Shaq at a high level.

We have numbers showing that between 2015-2021, Draymond was only marginally worse at rim protection than Gobert or Embiid. At his height, that's bonkers and I think that his shot-blocking numbers are less important than his deterrence is.

Dray's a good rim protector (significantly better than Rodman in my estimation), but I think saying marginally worse than Gobert here is overselling (no shame, Gobert is an all-timer). That's on well under ~1/2 the volume. We'd never say someone with the same ts% was a marginally worse scorer than someone scoring at twice their volume and we shouldn't do it with rim protection.

[uberhikari]

Dray has a career average of 1 block per game.

Rodman guarded Jordan to Shaq at a high level.

We have numbers showing that between 2015-2021, Draymond was only marginally worse at rim protection than Gobert or Embiid. At his height, that's bonkers and I think that his shot-blocking numbers are less important than his deterrence is.

Dray's a good rim protector (significantly better than Rodman in my estimation), but I think saying marginally worse than Gobert here is overselling (no shame, Gobert is an all-timer). That's on well under ~1/2 the volume. We'd never say someone with the same ts% was a marginally worse scorer than someone scoring at twice their volume and we shouldn't do it with rim protection.

A defensive possession is not equivalent to a FGA or a FGM. Your comparison is incorrect.

[eminence]

We have numbers showing that between 2015-2021, Draymond was only marginally worse at rim protection than Gobert or Embiid. At his height, that's bonkers and I think that his shot-blocking numbers are less important than his deterrence is.

Dray's a good rim protector (significantly better than Rodman in my estimation), but I think saying marginally worse than Gobert here is overselling (no shame, Gobert is an all-timer). That's on well under ~1/2 the volume. We'd never say someone with the same ts% was a marginally worse scorer than someone scoring at twice their volume and we shouldn't do it with rim protection.

A defensive possession is not equivalent to a FGA or a FGM. Your comparison is incorrect.

And they don't need to be to show the point. C'mon now, no need for the pedantry.

Goberts role as a rim protector >>> Drays

[dygaction]

Hard to compare across era but it is a stretch to argue KG over Duncan, who anchored over a decade of elite defense and the winningest franchise.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Zo being underrated here, anyone with Dwight on their list and no Zo didn’t watch peak Zo, he was winning DPOY’s over prime Mutombo. I guess if you favor longevity that’s a knock against him since his prime was cut short.

Also he’s a guy who’d actually fare pretty well even in this era, as he was fantastic at switching and could chase guards to some extent.

[uberhikari]

Dray's a good rim protector (significantly better than Rodman in my estimation), but I think saying marginally worse than Gobert here is overselling (no shame, Gobert is an all-timer). That's on well under ~1/2 the volume. We'd never say someone with the same ts% was a marginally worse scorer than someone scoring at twice their volume and we shouldn't do it with rim protection.

A defensive possession is not equivalent to a FGA or a FGM. Your comparison is incorrect.

And they don't need to be to show the point. C'mon now, no need for the pedantry.

Goberts role as a rim protector >>> Drays

First, I said nothing about Gobert vs Draymond concerning their roles as defenders. I made one point, which you conceded. Everything else you wrote is irrelevant. Moreover, your argument was based on an equivocation fallacy. There's a difference between volume in terms of the number of possessions and volume in terms of how much you score, and it's precisely because your comparison was based on this equivocation that your comparison between Gobert and Draymond fails. That's why although Draymond and AD are only separated by ~500 possessions you conveniently skipped over that in the infographic.

Second, please don't characterize what I did as "pedantry." It's unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric. Next time I'm reporting you.

[eminence]

A defensive possession is not equivalent to a FGA or a FGM. Your comparison is incorrect.

And they don't need to be to show the point. C'mon now, no need for the pedantry.

Goberts role as a rim protector >>> Drays

First, I said nothing about Gobert vs Draymond concerning their roles as defenders. I made one point, which you conceded. Everything else you wrote is irrelevant. Moreover, your argument was based on an equivocation fallacy. There's a difference between volume in terms of the number of possessions and volume in terms of how much you score, and it's precisely because your comparison was based on this equivocation that your comparison between Gobert and Draymond fails. That's why although Draymond and AD are only separated by ~500 possessions you conveniently skipped over that in the infographic.

Second, please don't characterize what I did as "pedantry." It's unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric. Next time I'm reporting you.

First, if you feel my behavior is out of line, you can just report.

Second, the point was conceded because it's true. But also irrelevant, because those weren't the things being equivocated. What was being equivocated was that primary rim protectors are held to a different 'efficiency' standard than secondary rim protectors, similar to primary and secondary scorers. Role was the entire point.

And I skipped over the AD portion because nobody was talking about AD, duh.

[Djoker]

Zo being underrated here, anyone with Dwight on their list and no Zo didn’t watch peak Zo, he was winning DPOY’s over prime Mutombo. I guess if you favor longevity that’s a knock against him since his prime was cut short.

Also he’s a guy who’d actually fare pretty well even in this era, as he was fantastic at switching and could chase guards to some extent.

Zo is a really good shout-out. Recently watched some of his games and he impressed me a lot on D. He was the most important reason those Miami teams were so so good on D. Fundamentally sound, so physically strong, underrated hops and of course great instinct for blocking shots. And just a bundle on energy. Dude never seemed to stop or take a night off.