Better supporting cast - Jokic vs Embiid

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:26 am

Who has the better supporting cast over the years?

Jokic had Murray who might be the best supporting guy except one year of Butler; Gordon; MPJ; Grant/Millsap or KCP/Brown.

Embiid had Simmons, one year of Butler, post prime Harden, Maxey, Tobias...

OhayoKD · Post #2 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 12:14 pm

durantbird wrote:Who has the better supporting cast over the years?

Jokic had Murray who might be the best supporting guy except one year of Butler; Gordon; MPJ; Grant/Millsap or KCP/Brown.

Embiid had Simmons, one year of Butler, post prime Harden, Maxey, Tobias...

Definitely Jokic for the playoffs. I could see Embid for the regular season. Murray quite arguably outplayed Jokic in the 2020 playoffs(Kind of confident he did vs the Lakers at least) and everyone stepped up for 2023. 2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support with injuries to his best teammates helping nuke 23 and 20 and that best teammate being ben simmons messing up 2021.

70sFan · Post #3 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 12:28 pm

2018: probably Embiid
2019: Embiid easily
2020: Jokic
2021: Embiid
2022: Embiid
2023: Jokic
2024: close for now, will wait for the playoffs

Overall: Embiid

70sFan · Post #4 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 12:29 pm

OhayoKD wrote:
durantbird wrote:Who has the better supporting cast over the years?

Jokic had Murray who might be the best supporting guy except one year of Butler; Gordon; MPJ; Grant/Millsap or KCP/Brown.

Embiid had Simmons, one year of Butler, post prime Harden, Maxey, Tobias...

Definitely Jokic for the playoffs. I could see Embid for the regular season. Murray quite arguably outplayed Jokic in the 2020 playoffs(Kind of confident he did vs the Lakers at least) and everyone stepped up for 2023. 2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support with injuries to his best teammates helping nuke 23 and 20 and that best teammate being ben simmons messing up 2021.

Please tell me how Embiid had comparable support to Jokic in 2022.

The Master · Post #5 » by **The Master** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 12:34 pm

durantbird wrote:Who has the better supporting cast over the years?

Jokic had Murray who might be the best supporting guy except one year of Butler; Gordon; MPJ; Grant/Millsap or KCP/Brown.

Embiid had Simmons, one year of Butler, post prime Harden, Maxey, Tobias...

Embiid, including conference differences, he had much more playoff opportunities.

Jokic had two postseason runs wasted by Murray's ACL injury, so it leaves you with 2020 and 2023 of realistic contending.

2019s Sixers were stacked (Embiid had 17ppg on 53TS% series against Raptors in the series lost by one possession), Hawks' series in '21 was winnable if Embiid was able to dominate bottom-10 defense (and then they would've played Bucks without Giannis for couple of games in the ECF), the same with Heat series in 2022 (once again, injured Embiid playing mediocre series) and Celtics' series in 2023.

eminence · Post #6 » by **eminence** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:50 pm

From statmuse, total RS minutes for each team since 2017-18 (3k+)

Nuggets
16050 Jokic
11724 Murray
9800 Barton
7066 Morris
6331 Gordon
6304 Harris
6289 MPJ
5441 Millsap
4227 Plumlee
3778 KCP
3208 Beasley
3204 Craig

Sixers
12834 Embiid
11803 Harris
9326 Simmons
7145 Maxey
5332 Korkmaz
5280 Milton
4861 Thybulle
4495 Redick
3390 Covington
3305 Green
3248 Niang
3204 Curry
3176 McConnell
3109 Melton

Harden 2927
Butler 1824

Special_Puppy · Post #7 » by **Special_Puppy** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 4:42 pm

2017: Jokic by a big margin
2018: Embiid by a big margin
2019: Embiid
2020: Tied
2021: Embiid
2022: Embiid
2023: Embiid

So Embiid on balance

Mickey8 · Post #8 » by **Mickey8** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 5:50 pm

Another unnecessary thread. Jokic never played alongside the multiple all star teammate, you can't count Millsap because he was already at the end of his career when he was playing for Denver.Just look Butler's and Harden's success without Embiid, all have played at least Conference finals, Butler went to two NBA finals as soon he ditched Philadelphia. And those who are saying Harden was bad or washed up with the Sixers, newsflash he was much better player in the series with the Celtics than Embiid, he won them two games.

One_and_Done · Post #9 » by **One_and_Done** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:54 pm

This year? Jokic. Last year? Jokic. "Over the years"? Embiid.

Mickey8 · Post #10 » by **Mickey8** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:19 pm

BS, Embiid last season and this season and previous seasons. Maxi will be an all star player this season while Murray wont. The Sixers have the better bench its not even the contest.

McBubbles · Post #11 » by **McBubbles** » Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:31 pm

Embiid without question.

OhayoKD · Post #12 » by **OhayoKD** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:21 am

70sFan wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:
durantbird wrote:Who has the better supporting cast over the years?

Jokic had Murray who might be the best supporting guy except one year of Butler; Gordon; MPJ; Grant/Millsap or KCP/Brown.

Embiid had Simmons, one year of Butler, post prime Harden, Maxey, Tobias...

Definitely Jokic for the playoffs. I could see Embid for the regular season. Murray quite arguably outplayed Jokic in the 2020 playoffs(Kind of confident he did vs the Lakers at least) and everyone stepped up for 2023. 2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support with injuries to his best teammates helping nuke 23 and 20 and that best teammate being ben simmons messing up 2021.

Please tell me how Embiid had comparable support to Jokic in 2022.

I never said he did?

70sFan · Post #13 » by **70sFan** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:41 am

OhayoKD wrote:
70sFan wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:Definitely Jokic for the playoffs. I could see Embid for the regular season. Murray quite arguably outplayed Jokic in the 2020 playoffs(Kind of confident he did vs the Lakers at least) and everyone stepped up for 2023. 2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support with injuries to his best teammates helping nuke 23 and 20 and that best teammate being ben simmons messing up 2021.

Please tell me how Embiid had comparable support to Jokic in 2022.

I never said he did?

But you said:

"2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support"

Maybe I misunderstood the context. Either way, Embiid has clearly better help across years than Jokic.

HeartBreakKid · Post #14 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:46 am

Since the players became relevant it's Embiid.

OhayoKD · Post #15 » by **OhayoKD** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 8:59 am

70sFan wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:
70sFan wrote:Please tell me how Embiid had comparable support to Jokic in 2022.

I never said he did?

But you said:

"2019 was the only year Embid had conceivably comparable playoff support"

Maybe I misunderstood the context. Either way, Embiid has clearly better help across years than Jokic.

Conceivably comparable playoff support to what Jokic had in 2020 and 2023(which was what was mentioned in previous sentences). And even then, I don't think Butler played as well as Jamal did in 2020 but maybe there's a leadership component there.