GOAT Skills: Screen Setting

The Explorer · Post #1 » by **The Explorer** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 6:39 pm

Continuation of the GOAT skills series. Next up is screen setting.

Who would you say is the GOAT screen setter? As an aside, I put in a vote for Stockton among guards, though this thread is for overall which will be bigs.

GOAT Skills Series:
GOAT Passing
GOAT Post Defense
GOAT Offensive Rebounding
GOAT Footwork

AEnigma · Post #2 » by **AEnigma** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 7:02 pm

Wes Unseld, Ben Wallace, Andrew Bogut, Rudy Gobert, and Steven Adams all immediately come to mind for centres. There is really no shortage though, because being strong takes you far. Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol… Marcin Gortat, Omer Asik, Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis, Kevon Looney, Jason Collins, and Nick Collison for more roleplayer names… Horford was always effective…

For power forwards: Duncan, Garnett, Oakley, Malone, Mahorn, Rodman, Draymond, Aldridge, Amir Johnson, David West, Taj Gibson…

Stockton is a good choice among small players. Lowry is up there. Paul and Jrue too — again, strength is essential. Steph was a reliable one for a few years; not sure how much he still is.

Unseld deserves the title by reputation, although I would probably push someone like Adams for the “best” title. Tough to not take Unseld as the “greatest” though when he stands out even as a contemporary of Reed, Wilt, Thurmond, Beaty, etc. And there is something to universality: a lot of this skews modern as movement shooting has been increasingly emphasised, but Unseld stands out a decade before you start to see some of those 1980s power forwards really build a reputation for it (not saying there were no other noteworthy screen-setters… but Unseld is the only one whose reputation is immortal).

Post #3 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 7:42 pm

Helps that Wes was a widebody, but yeah, he was a nasty screen setter. And then they brought him in to teach Jeff Ruland and Rick Mahorn how to do it.

Not sure I would take a modern player because the refs have become so lenient about moving screens.

AEnigma · Post #4 » by **AEnigma** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 8:10 pm

The lenience contributes to some of the volume and frequency, but I would still prefer that volume and frequency barring a confident assessment of what would make older figures better. Lakers Wilt had the tools at least, but not sure how many others historically can compete. If you have a designed play for an action coming off a screen, and the opponent knows you want to set a screen, are you 100% choosing Unseld for that role over anybody?

Again, sheer legacy goes to Unseld. Question answered if that is all we want. But in actual ability, I would probably prefer others.

Owly · Post #5 » by **Owly** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:02 pm

As ever value of a skill is contextual in terms of external factors (team contexts etc) and player internal factors (does your rim-running/lob threat or threat to "pop" or "fade" for a J make the value from your screens more dangerous).

Difference leverages on the value of quantity, quality and ... menace?/reducer?/intimidation? factor plus different era considerations (including differing rules and interpretations) make it pretty tough to answer with any confidence.

Dr Positivity · Post #6 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:26 pm

I think KG mastered towing the line of moving screens.

clearlynotjesse · Post #7 » by **clearlynotjesse** » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:29 pm

Dirk screens were some of the most useful ever. He wasn't blowing guys up but they were effective.

Post #8 » by **trex_8063** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 3:29 am

Wes Unseld seems like the obvious answer: supposedly his screens were like running into a brick wall (and they do look solid from the footage I've seen).

Rudy Gobert was the next name that came to mind. I've always admired not only his technique, but his willingness to set and reset, and reset, and reset [as needed] multiple screens on the same possession. I recall seeing a stat that he set more screens than any other player for multiple years running.

There are a number of guys worth mentioning after that:
Kevin Garnett
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Steven Adams sets a nice screen
Amar'e Stoudemire perhaps???
Dirk Nowitzki set effective ones (I might be factoring in what guys do AFTER the screen here)

Off-the-cuff non-standard answer: Jusuf Nurkic sets a nice pick from what I've seen. EDIT: So does Nikola Jokic, actually.

rk2023 · Post #9 » by **rk2023** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 3:55 am

Draymond and one of Scott Foster / Tony Brothers are the best screeners you could have while running double drag, I’d take them over anybody

Post #10 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 10:00 pm

clearlynotjesse wrote:Dirk screens were some of the most useful ever. He wasn't blowing guys up but they were effective.

Yeah a Dirk screen is probably the most effective of all-time and I'm assuming the OP is trying to get at what screen helps the offense the most, not who most resembles a brick wall. Because a Dirk screen set more guards free than anyone ever. Because teams didn't want to switch it so the guard gets picked off and now Barea is at the rim, or Terry is shooting wide open 18 footers or Nash is playing 4 on 3.

Can't imagine there is a coach who would rather run PNR with Adams or Gobert instead.

DCasey91 · Post #11 » by **DCasey91** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 10:19 pm

Has to be any of the GSW big/wing players considering nowadays it is directly sourced

To the letter of the law it is illegal but the effect was that great.

AEnigma · Post #12 » by **AEnigma** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 10:21 pm

That is an interesting and worthwhile distinction. If you are measuring nothing but the screen itself, then Dirk is easy to exclude (not that his were bad). If measuring the effect of the screening action — which you are correct should matter more to how an offence runs — then he has an easy case for #1.

Post #13 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Feb 2, 2024 11:27 pm

Not sure taking into account the shooting ability of the screener as a factor in how effective the screen is fits what the OP has in mind. Now you are getting into best PNR player, rather than who sets the best screens. On the other hand, I think moving screens should be taken into account as effective if the refs are letting teams get away with them. Taking advantage of the rules as they exist is part of using a skill just like all the illegal carries that almost every ballhandler today uses are an accepted part of having great handles in the modern NBA.

DraymondGold · Post #14 » by **DraymondGold** » Sat Feb 3, 2024 10:00 pm

I found an old thread on screening in another forum (https://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4803). There's a few interesting posts by fpliii, who did a google search and gathered data just based on the number of mentions. They put an asterisk * next to players who appeared frequently mentioned or in particularly high regard, with two asterisks ** next to Wes Unseld who got the most mentions as the GOAT screen setter.

Here's the list, as of 2015:

Spoiler:

. And here's the list of the more frequently mentioned screeners:

Spoiler:

This definitely isn't a rigorous/scientific list, but it's interesting to see who gets more crowd support!