How does Patrick Ewing's peak 1989-90 season compare with Embiid and Jokic's single season peak

[Woodsanity]

I love Ewing but he can't compare to Jokic who is just on another level. I still take him over Embiid though since Embiid is a fraud in the playoffs.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

My issue with Patrick Ewing is he never once finished top 3 in MVP voting. He was never considered the best player in the league and really wasn't ever considered the best center in the league. I have him as the 4th best center of the 90s behind Hakeem, Robinson, and Shaq. In terms of "bigs" i would also take Malone and Barkley ahead of him.

This basically puts Ewing as the 6th best big of the 90s.

The argument for Chuck over Ewing being the MVP? Because Ewing was about as much better on D as was Chuck on O, perhaps even more so because pre-injury Ewing wasn't a bad scorer at all and Chuck was a flagrant waste of skin on defense for a lot of his career, blocks notwithstanding.

Pat really was nothing special on offense, Chuck was like 2-3 tiers above him there.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

[70sFan]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

If something always went wrong in the playoffs, then maybe Embiid isn't really on that level?

[lessthanjake]

I think Jokic and Embiid are on a different level than Ewing. The only caveat there is that Embiid’s playoff resume is thin and Ewing was good in the 1990 playoffs (albeit only having two rounds of play—so a very low sample size, and on a player that wasn’t a great playoff performer in general). That’s the only way I can see getting to a conclusion that you’d take 1990 Ewing over either of these guys, but even then I’d take Embiid.

[Special_Puppy]

Ewing's peak was probably the 1991-1992 season where he took the superteam Bulls to 7 games or the 1993-94 season where he went to the finals The problem with Ewing is that he had basically no offensive value even if he was a DPOY level defender.

[Cavsfansince84]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

I'm not so confident. In terms of Joel as a leader/playoff performer or that he provides the same presence as Ewing as a def anchor. Joel's the same guy who early this season after Maxey put up a couple 40 pt games with Embiid out was calling him the franchise over and over. Weird way for the current mvp to refer to a teammate.

[AEnigma]

Ewing's peak was probably the 1991-1992 season where he took the superteam Bulls to 7 games or the 1993-94 season where he went to the finals The problem with Ewing is that he had basically no offensive value even if he was a DPOY level defender.

He had plenty of offensive value in 1990, and even if you think his defence was better in other years (probably true, although athletically he was at his peak in 1990), it is not by enough to make up for that incredible scoring streak.

Arguing other years is pure results analysis. If 1990 Ewing had been on the 1992-94 Knicks, they probably win a title, but instead his peak year occurred with a mediocre coach and an even less impressive support cast.

[Owly]

I think Jokic and Embiid are on a different level than Ewing. The only caveat there is that Embiid’s playoff resume is thin and Ewing was good in the 1990 playoffs (albeit only having two rounds of play—so a very low sample size, and on a player that wasn’t a great playoff performer in general). That’s the only way I can see getting to a conclusion that you’d take 1990 Ewing over either of these guys, but even then I’d take Embiid.

I would say Ewing was highly productive in the 90 playoffs (and that season in general).
The caveat on the playoffs is that I think his primary positional match up (Parish, Edwards) were also fairly box productive and the Celtics and Pistons at a team level were, iirc, fairly effective on offense against the Knicks.

I would of course grant that these are very imprecise measures as a signal for individual D. Also I think I recall hearing Ewing was effective covering McHale after McHale had scored well early in the series ... and from that I don't know how much cross matching occurred.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

If something always went wrong in the playoffs, then maybe Embiid isn't really on that level?

maybe, I understand the comment.
but when I watch him play that's not what comes out to me at all, and I think that if we must go full 180 because of one post season then our original opinion was not really well thought to begin with.
I do think that there are some limitations in his game, but I also think the guy is a force of nature, if healthy.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

I'm not so confident. In terms of Joel as a leader/playoff performer or that he provides the same presence as Ewing as a def anchor. Joel's the same guy who early this season after Maxey put up a couple 40 pt games with Embiid out was calling him the franchise over and over. Weird way for the current mvp to refer to a teammate.

not weird at all and actually a great thing. Jokic does that all the time

[Cavsfansince84]

not weird at all and actually a great thing. Jokic does that all the time

Never heard of Jokic doing it but to me its still weird.

[70sFan]

If we actually look at the players, Embiid should be compared to Hakeem and Shaq rather then Pat.
His issue is that something always went wrong in the playoffs, but I am confident he was a much better player.

If something always went wrong in the playoffs, then maybe Embiid isn't really on that level?

maybe, I understand the comment.
but when I watch him play that's not what comes out to me at all, and I think that if we must go full 180 because of one post season then our original opinion was not really well thought to begin with.
I do think that there are some limitations in his game, but I also think the guy is a force of nature, if healthy.

I don't think we should go 180, but it's not about one postseason either. Joel was underwhelming for the vast majority of his postseason career.

I like Embiid and I thought he was marvelous before the injury this year. I really hoped he'll finish this year strong and finally get a complete season in his resume. It seems that healthy Embiid doesn't exist though.

It's reasonable to believe that Embiid peaked higher than Ewing in terms of basketball abilities, but to also think he never had as good season as 1990 Ewing (or even 1992-94 Ewing). Last season was his best season up to now and he still missed many games (including two in the playoffs) and I don't think he was great against Boston either (though he wasn't horrible).

[Ryoga Hibiki]

If something always went wrong in the playoffs, then maybe Embiid isn't really on that level?

maybe, I understand the comment.
but when I watch him play that's not what comes out to me at all, and I think that if we must go full 180 because of one post season then our original opinion was not really well thought to begin with.
I do think that there are some limitations in his game, but I also think the guy is a force of nature, if healthy.

I don't think we should go 180, but it's not about one postseason either. Joel was underwhelming for the vast majority of his postseason career.

I like Embiid and I thought he was marvelous before the injury this year. I really hoped he'll finish this year strong and finally get a complete season in his resume. It seems that healthy Embiid doesn't exist though.

It's reasonable to believe that Embiid peaked higher than Ewing in terms of basketball abilities, but to also think he never had as good season as 1990 Ewing (or even 1992-94 Ewing). Last season was his best season up to now and he still missed many games (including two in the playoffs) and I don't think he was great against Boston either (though he wasn't horrible).

If we want to say that full year Embiid didn't have a year in terms of total achievements at the level of the best Ewing year it might be. But I do thing that the level of play Joel has shown when at his best was well superior to anything Ewing did.
He needs an actually strong playoff showing, not even winning, to make this comparison look silly.
If that's all it takes either I have good reasons to think his game doesn't translate (I don't) or I am trusting my judgement and pick him over someone I consider inferior even if he hasn't proven yet.
It would be different if the comparison was against someone who is at least in his tier, like Hakeem or Shaq but even Robinson.

[tsherkin]

My issue with Patrick Ewing is he never once finished top 3 in MVP voting. He was never considered the best player in the league and really wasn't ever considered the best center in the league. I have him as the 4th best center of the 90s behind Hakeem, Robinson, and Shaq. In terms of "bigs" i would also take Malone and Barkley ahead of him.

This basically puts Ewing as the 6th best big of the 90s.

The argument for Chuck over Ewing being the MVP? Because Ewing was about as much better on D as was Chuck on O, perhaps even more so because pre-injury Ewing wasn't a bad scorer at all and Chuck was a flagrant waste of skin on defense for a lot of his career, blocks notwithstanding.

Pat really was nothing special on offense, Chuck was like 2-3 tiers above him there.

Yes, though 1990 was his best offensive season, so it mitigates it some, particularly given the larger gap on D.