What does it mean to be a generational talent? Who are the generational talents in recent NBA history?

[RCM88x]

Mikan, Wilt, Kareen, Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Jokic, Wemby (likely)

[eminence]

Mikan, Wilt, Kareen, Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Jokic, Wemby (likely)

I think all of these guys are worth mentioning (who knows on where Jokic/Wemby end up).

But it seems a bit inconsistent to have Wilt/Shaq over Russell/Duncan but then have Jordan over Hakeem.

Wilt/Hakeem/Shaq are the players who'd be commonly thought of as more 'talented' in a draft setting (see Hakeem being drafted over MJ) and went on to accomplish plenty (6-8 in our recent top 100), while Russell/MJ/Duncan may be seen as slightly less talented but accomplished more than their counterparts (3-5 in the same top 100).

[RCM88x]

Mikan, Wilt, Kareen, Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Jokic, Wemby (likely)

I think all of these guys are worth mentioning (who knows on where Jokic/Wemby end up).

But it seems a bit inconsistent to have Wilt/Shaq over Russell/Duncan but then have Jordan over Hakeem.

Wilt/Hakeem/Shaq are the players who'd be commonly thought of as more 'talented' in a draft setting (see Hakeem being drafted over MJ) and went on to accomplish plenty (6-8 in our recent top 100), while Russell/MJ/Duncan may be seen as slightly less talented but accomplished more than their counterparts (3-5 in the same top 100).

I personally don't see Hakeem on that level, he's much closer to Karl Malone than he is to Jordan. Him being drafted higher is irrelevant, he achieved far less and was a lesser player every year they were both in the NBA together.

Being consistent here is pretty impossible with such a subjective topic and question especially related to "generations".

If we want to stick strictly with actual generations (20-30 yrs) then the list would probably just be Mikan, Kareem, Jordan, Lebron, Wemby

[Laimbeer]

Mikan, Wilt, Kareen, Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Jokic, Wemby (likely)

I think all of these guys are worth mentioning (who knows on where Jokic/Wemby end up).

But it seems a bit inconsistent to have Wilt/Shaq over Russell/Duncan but then have Jordan over Hakeem.

Wilt/Hakeem/Shaq are the players who'd be commonly thought of as more 'talented' in a draft setting (see Hakeem being drafted over MJ) and went on to accomplish plenty (6-8 in our recent top 100), while Russell/MJ/Duncan may be seen as slightly less talented but accomplished more than their counterparts (3-5 in the same top 100).

Jordan is not in a category with Duncan and Russell. He was extraordinarily talented, while Duncan and Russell's success was situational to a greater extent. No one ever looked at either and said, damn, they're just way better than anyone else in the league right now.

[Doctor MJ]

Jordan is not in a category with Duncan and Russell. He was extraordinarily talented, while Duncan and Russell's success was situational to a greater extent. No one ever looked at either and said, damn, they're just way better than anyone else in the league right now.

Eh, I think it's important to remember that before Russell, the NCAA, NBA & Olympics champions were always led by White players. Russell was the first Black player to lead a team to the title/Gold in all 3 of those settings, and when he did so, jaws were dropped and tongues were wagging saying that there'd never been anyone like him before and that the things he did just seemed impossible.

Of course it's certainly true that once Wilt Chamberlain came to the NBA, nobody was talking about Russell as being far more talented than everyone else, but prior to that Russell was seen as a unique force, and afterward, it was still about the two of them being ahead of everyone else by most identifiers I've ever seen.

2-part caveat:

- There was a Cousy contingent early on in Russell's career who used the Russell-driven success to come to a conclusion not simply that Cousy was the GOAT ahead of Mikan, but this didn't translate to Cousy getting more accolades than Russell once Russell was there for a full season.

- After Cousy retired (and the Celtics kept winning), this type of sentiment seemed to morph into statements like "Of course Oscar can't win, big men cause winning, but there's not a finer all-around basketball player in the game than the Big O!"

Last thing I'll point out on Russell: I think it's also worth noting that Russell broke the NCAA tourney scoring record, and also averaged more PPG in the Olympics than anyone on the 1948 & 1952 teams, despite the fact that the 1948 team featured Alex Groza and the 1952 team featured Clyde Lovellette (and both featured Bob Kurland).

I think people evaluating Russell simply based on his NBA career tend to see him as someone who could only be a defensive specialist, but that's not actually what he was until he came to Boston and Red Auerbach told him to be one. While I absolutely think that was the right move for the team, and I don't want to imply that Russell has massively untapped shooting touch, I don't think there's any doubt that he could have been an astonishing lob threat, fast break runner thread, put-back guy, and a team could have made that their offensive strategy while still having Russell perform as the best defender in the world (though he'd be diminished to some degree there).

All this to say: I think Russell was recognized plenty as a generational-type talent, and the only real thing that can get in the way there is the temporal proximity to Wilt, who may still be the best physical athletic talent humanity has ever produced.

As for Duncan...yeah, agree. During Duncan's prime, it was a mishmash of guys who were seen as best-talent candidates in between Shaq & LeBron. Not wrong to call Duncan "generational" in my personal book, but I'd say people seem more inspired by him in retrospect than they actually were at the time.

[eminence]

Duncan I can see a case against - though I still find taking Shaq over Duncan and MJ over Hakeem as inconsistent positions.

But Russell was universally acknowledged as the best prospect ever when he entered the league, won 5 MVPs, and had more team success than anyone before or after. If he's not a generational talent I don't think anybody meets the bar.

"Let's face it, he's the best ever. He's so good, he scares you."

[penbeast0]

Russell was certainly not acknowledged as the best prospect ever when he entered the league. He wasn't even the 1st pick in his draft, Sihugo Green (another black player so it wasn't about race) was by Rochester. The Celtics liked him enough to trade a premium for the 2nd pick in the draft to the St. Louis team and picked him 2nd.

[eminence]

Not an Ice Capades believer ehh?