penbeast0 wrote:bastillon wrote:Interesting results. As I stated before, I will not be voting on the pre-shot clock years. However, I do have concerns that the voters are more focusing on the names instead of the analysis of games and stats. Let's just remember that the NBA history tells us that generally speaking bigs have lesser impact on the offensive end compared to guards and wings. Granted, there are exceptions to this rule such as Kareem, Shaq and Joker. Moreover, pre-shot clock era is a different sport so maybe it was different back then. Nevertheless, I have serious doubts about Mikan's status as OPOY and multiple players could've been put ahead of him. Hopefully Mikan will be voted on based on analysis of his games and numbers instead of his name alone.
Does NBA history tell us this or only modern NBA history. There have been a few great PGs who have produced great offenses (Oscar, Magic, Stockton, Nash, etc.) but I would like to see some data that showed that great wings have been more productive for great offenses than great big men historically. Today, with the focus on 3 point shooting as the primary driver of offense, sure. In the 60s, 70s, 80s? Not so sure.
I imagine that examination will come in the form of playmaking. Singular isolation scoring is produces only so much impact, for example. So unless the big is actively creating shots for others, then there is a limitation or ceiling on their overall ability to produce impact. That isn't, of course, limited to bigs, but it seems the relevant part in the earlier days of the NBA. At some point, there are exceptions. Then you start looking for exceptions across the ages, and you'll start finding some who buck the trend by producing atypical levels of passing force from the pivot, and that will likely create the relevant discussion, I'd expect.
(EDIT to Add: This is likely because a low-block iso doesn't create a ton of movement without a TON of team off-ball activity. Lots and lots of screening and such to create movement away from the iso. And then, that's assuming it's a lengthy iso instead of a good seal, a good pass and a quick move. So that doesn't shift the defense nearly as much as something like high post action, which opens up many more doors. And then you have to look at someone isolating like Shaq or Barkley, or even older Magic, Mark Jackson and Gary Payton, who did a lot of playmaking from the elbow while backing down. So those longer isolations allow a little more for shifting the D, post/re-post, reversal passes, etc. Essentially the elements of Holzman's Knicks or, later on, the triangle offense and all that.
Compare and contrast to the value of the pick-and-roll with spacing, plus ball-handling in transition. Compare to how a dribble isolation play can collapse the defense and create kick-outs, etc.)
Popped in mostly to say that while I am not a participating voter, these projects always produce really cool conversation. And this one, even in this first thread, has already been delivering. Thanks to everyone who is creating such fantastic reads.
