Colbinii wrote:MacGill wrote:Colbinii wrote:
Okay, so address my question.
Is Wade in your Top 10-15 like Kobe? Afterall, you do have Wade's prime ahead of Kobe.
I see. So you did give players a positive for maintain a longer prime?
I am trying to follow the logic here, but it isn't very consistent or clear.
Sure, but I have Kobe in my top 10, lower end and Wade was in that top 15 range, Oscar/Wilt/Doc scale. Now, while I haven't really put too much thought into things over the years, usually just top 10, Curry, KD, Jokic, Greek/freak are all contenders so I haven't officially reviewed but I have no issues whatsoever of you having him in your top 15 and I enjoy this board for opinions, even if I don't follow consenus the same as many do.
RE: Prime length, well most of the ATG's have it so it's not like I have to try hard to find it. And of course against the best it matters but context also matters. I'm not looking to start a flaming LeBron war here so I hope you can receive what I am saying as just my opinion, even if yours differs. While the advanced metrics make him look good, when I watch him play I see far too many things to which I wish he would just retire. 03-18 would have been perfect for me but, as I've mentioned on here many times, he's had the best career but his longer prime doesn't mean I hold him more valuable than a 12 -14 year prime for example.
I see. So you don't put any value in his 2020 season as he was a Top 2-3 player in the NBA or 2023 and 2024 seasons which had a level of play as a ~Top 10 player?
Do you think Jordan was perfect if he just stayed retired after 1993? After all he was notably worse, especially in 1997 and 1998, compared to his pre-retirement level.
I don't understand how those can't be positive, meaningful value when assessing a player but I also live in the United States so I see first hand how my logical thinking isn't shared by everyone
I promise I won't hold that aginst you!
Nah man! Everyone points to the modern day advanced metrics but when you watch the games it doesn't match the eye-game test but his role on the team and obvious ATG skills help camouflage this. It's why even in the adavced metric world you now get arguments over which version of said stats to use. No pre 2000's organization ever drafted using this nor were the players ranked in this manner. I can respect the analysis but it also over complicates the game to me because it forces you to believe something that clearly isn't highlighting everything happening on the floor. And then all the couch coaches really get behind numbers that support their fav player. So, without derailing this thread for LeBron, his defence and overall lack of effort on everything except offence has really shined through to me. I do, 100% give him credit for still being effective, but it's well over-blown to me since his time in LA. Like I stated 03-18 and call it a career. It's now just a 'caught in the moment' because he's the first, but years from now will be reviewed and debated again. And I'll be there
Re: MJ - I don't know if he stays perfect, probably not as 3-peats are hard enough, but I also wouldn't place a bet against him. MJ/Russell are my 1a) 1B) Goats btw. Also, Jordan added to his game and still stayed on top, even if a step slower. Honestly, I wish he never retired because he most likely breaks KAJ scoring record if he a) doesn't break his foot second season b) first retirement c) Krause doesn't break up the team and he keeps playing. He was slower, but that's how it works with most athletes, even Bolt. Even though Tiger put on the most muscle mass in his career during the last quarter, you see what happens. I'm unsure as to why both fanbases can't have debates without arguments, oh and not stating you to be clear, but while he didn't play 20 years, it is clear that physically he most certainly could of, especially as we lost prime years and LeBron LA versions of him.
Anyway, rambling now, however, and I don't mean to say this to dig at you or LeBron fans, I, as well get frustrated as a Shaq fan, but if Jokic and say Wemby end up having a few more season like he has (Jokic) and Wemby continuing on his path those same metrics are going to make them look even better then LeBrons. I have Jokic's title run as already better then anything LBJ, bascially a triple dub the entire post season, so it will be interesting to see how the fanbase reponds as you won't have any of the era noise to try and formulate out etc.
