Retro Player of the Year 1989-90 UPDATE — Michael Jordan

[OhayoKD]

Voting Post

1. Micheal Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
As promised, his airness ascends to #1 on my ballot. A spot he will probably retain he is quite clearly outplayed all season in 1993. Clearly is the key word here because while I'm sympathetic to those comparing the individual postseason performance of the other MJ from 89 and 90 (against a common opponent, no less), while Magic being better is plausible, it is not clear that it is likelier than not, and ultimately facing Jordan's best season where he played the eventual champs much closer than anyone else did, that is the bar.

I take no issue with people voting Magic ahead anyway, he probably would be a runaway POY just going by the regular season (and it's not like much effort has been made towards highlighting an area of production Magic did significantly worse in the playoffs), but the bulls click in the postseason with Jordan being legitimately incredible against Detroit(perhaps his 2nd best series after 88 vs the Cavs?) and it's a pretty convoluted case to make that the Bulls much better playoff performance is simply explained by teammates.

Also, while I don't have a great empirical argument for it, I do prefer peak Jordan to peak Magic and this isn't quite peak Magic imo.

91 is more interesting with Magic taking his team somewhere they shouldn't have gone, but in 90, the Lakers are nowhere close in terms of destination to Chicago at the point of the season that matters most, and Jordan's deck, while good, is not obviously historically stacked like 91.

3. Ewing
Most impressive year for non-contenders from a team perspective, taking a game from the champions and beating a 50-win opponent. Open to arguments that his cast was much better than Barkley or KJ's, but in lieu of that I'll take the player I generally prefer in a year his team was significantly more impressive in the postseason.

4. Hakeem
A big down-year offensively but one of the best defensive seasons ever. Team results aren't great, and the WOWY the next year is bad, but that signal is an outlier and even including it(as one should to be clear) the Rockets generally look very bad without Hakeem for his prime. In spite of the 91 stretch I have 1990 Houston as a step down in terms of support from 89 and at the very least the -4 support of 85-87. I'm not going to ignore the signal(hence why he's 4th and not 3rd), but dropping Hakeem further seems a little too cute to me.

5. Kevin Johnson

Leads a team that dusts Magic in 5 along with an excellent offense while notching the 2nd best bbr-production among players who lean towards playmaking more (the ones I'd say have the best track-record in terms of impacting offense). If someone wishes to argue Isiah creates more or his assists are more valuable or there is something unaccounted for that puts him ahead, I'm all ears. But in lieu of signals, and in lieu of alternative granulars, and in lieu of superior results on the side of the floor he dictates the most, I'll take KJ over Isiah, even though the latter walked away with the ultimate prize.

OPOY

1. Magic
2. Jordan
3. Kevin Johnson

DPOY

1. Hakeem
2. Ewing
5. David Robinson

[OhayoKD]

MJ
goes crazy in pos and takes champs to 7. He #1 easy.

IT
beats MJ and wins chip.

MAGIC
wins mvp and drops 30 vs suns but an L is an L. Lakers choke big so magic cant be top 2.

HAKEEM
Great D good O, chokes vs LA

EWING
Great D and good O. drops almost 30 and beats Bird. Loses to the champs but drops 27 on good ts so prob not on him.


i forgot about Dream so HM for chuck.

BARKELY
scores a bunch and beats cavs team mj is hyped for beating. Cooked by MJ tho.

Surprised that 10-point turnaround mainly from rookie-Drob isn't getting more love.

[AEnigma]

Minute leaders for the 1989 Spurs:

Willie Anderson — 2738 minutes
Greg Anderson — 2401 minutes
Alvin Robertson — 2287 minutes
Vernon Maxwell (rookie) — 2065 minutes
Frank Brickowski — 1822 minutes
Dallas Comegys — 1119 minutes
Johnny Dawkins — 1083 minutes
Dave Greenwood — 912 minutes
Albert King — 791 minutes
Darwin Cook — 757 minutes

Minute leaders for the 1990 Spurs:

David Robinson (rookie) — 3002 minutes
Terry Cummings — 2821 minutes
Willie Anderson — 2788 minutes (+50 from 1989)
Sean Elliott (rookie) — 2032 minutes
David Wingate — 1856 minutes
Maurice Cheeks — 1766 minutes
Frank Brickowski — 1438 minutes (-184 from 1989)
Rod Strickland — 1121 minutes
Vernon Maxwell — 1118 minutes (-947 from 1989)
Caldwell Jones — 885 minutes

It may as well be a completely different team.

By the way, Cummings misses 15 games next year; Robinson and the Spurs go 6-9 without him, and they also lost the only game Cummings missed this year. Even in 1992, Robinson only goes 6-6 without him.

[penbeast0]

....

By the way, Cummings misses 15 games next year; Robinson and the Spurs go 6-9 without him, and they also lost the only game Cummings missed this year. Even in 1992, Robinson only goes 6-6 without him.

Cummings was an underrated player. I liked him better than Worthy or Nique when he was first in the NBA, up until the knee injuries pretty much. He played a big part in winning teams in Milwaukee then in San Antonio. That and I liked the way he used to wear a wristband (or maybe a headband, he was a serious weightroom guy) around his biceps to emphasize them. Very tough guy looking.

[konr0167]

1. Jordan

Okay so this is peak Jordan. 89 is peak-ish but if you had to choose a year I think it’s really got to be 90. Not the best regular-season maybe but it’s his best playoff run and kind of comfortably his best series vs the bad boys. He wasn’t great vs a much weaker det team in 91 outside of when rodman was out (and a quarter of pistons recklessly defending him in near garbage time), and in 89 he kind of melts in the last 3 games.

Is it impossible to argue Magic winning 64 with probably less help and averaging 30 on 61% true-shooting in his loss was better? No. But as great as he was, I don't think a 2nd-round defeat to not even the best team in the losing conference cuts it against what is probably MJ at his absolute apex. 91 is more interesting, but 90 is kind of clear imo, at least for “player of the year”

2. Magic

Best offensive player, still worth discussing as best player, and carries what’s probably a pretty bad cast to 64-wins. If this was just the regular-season he’s POY pretty easily.

3. Hakeem

One of the worst years of his prime. Team does okay without him (maybe an outlier considering all the other stuff but still) in 90/91 oddly enough, but whatever. .500 and 17-points in the playoffs doesn’t cut it really In general Houstaon was terrible without him and I think he was the league’s best defender so I’ll give him 3 but it’s really just barely


4. Ewing

Knicks with another solid year on the back of Ewing being a strong two-way guy. 45-wins, a win against the 50-win Celtics, torched by Detroit but so was everyone else besides MJ.

5. Barkley

Good season, but obviously a way worse defender than Ewing and beats and loses to less impressive teams.

[AEnigma]

Votes are tallied. I recorded 10 approved voters: Djoker, AEnigma, B-Mitch 30, ShaqAttac, ILikeShaiGuys, Penbeast, OhayoKD (submitting “kola’s” ballot as his official one), konr0167, One_and_Done, and trelos. DJoker, AEnigma, B-Mitch 30, trelos, OhayoKD, and ILikeShaiGuys also voted for both Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year. Please let me know if I seem to have missed or otherwise improperly recorded a vote.

1989-90 Results

(Retro) Offensive Player of the Year — Magic Johnson (9)

Code: Select all

Player       1st   2nd   3rd   Points  Shares
1. Magic Johnson   4   2   0    26    0.867
2. Michael Jordan  2   4   0   22    0.733
3. Charles Barkley   0   0   4    4    0.133
4. Kevin Johnson   0   0   2    2    0.067

(Retro) Defensive Player of the Year — Hakeem Olajuwon (4) (Unanimous)

Code: Select all

Player         1st   2nd   3rd   Points  Shares
1. Hakeem Olajuwon    6   0   0    30   1.000
2. David Robinson    0   4   2    14    0.467
3. Patrick Ewing    0   2   3    9    0.300
4. Clyde Drexler    0   0   1    1    0.033

Retro Player of the Year — Michael Jordan

Code: Select all

Player      1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts  POY Shares
1. Michael Jordan  8  2  0  0  0   94   0.940
2. Magic Johnson  2  5  3  0  0   70   0.700
3. Hakeem Olajuwon   0  1  3  2  0    28   0.280
4. Patrick Ewing  0  0  2  2  3   19    0.190
5. Charles Barkley  0  1  0  2  3   16   0.160
6. David Robinson   0  0  1  3  0   14   0.140
7. Isiah Thomas   0  1  0  0  3   10   0.100
8. Clyde Drexler   0  0  1  0  0   5   0.050
9. Kevin Johnson   0  0  0  1  0   3   0.030
10. Karl Malone   0  0  0  0  1   1   0.010

In the prior project, there were 22 votes, with no overlap. These are the aggregated results of the two projects across 32 total ballots:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player   1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts  POY Shares
1. Michael Jordan  24  8  0  0  0   296   0.925
2. Magic Johnson  8  21  3  0  0   242   0.756
3. Charles Barkley  0  1  22  2  3   126   0.394
4. Patrick Ewing  0  0  2  19  5   72    0.225
5. Hakeem Olajuwon   0  1  3  2  2    30   0.094
6. David Robinson   0  0  1  4  7   24   0.075
7. Karl Malone   0  0  0  3  11   20   0.063
8. Isiah Thomas   0  1  0  1  4   14   0.044
9. Clyde Drexler   0  0  1  0  0   5   0.016
10. Kevin Johnson   0  0  0  1  0   3   0.009

1991 thread is open.

[B-Mitch 30]

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Michael Jordan

MJ has perhaps his best season besides 1990-1991 and 1992-1993 (I know people will disagree with me about the latter). Besides his typical scoring prowess and two-way impact as a guard, Jordan had his best year shooting three-pointers (with the two aforementioned seasons coming in third and second, respectively). He also came tantalizingly close to beating the Pistons in the Conference Finals, though they were able to stop him and prevent a possible four-peat. As a last feather in his cap, he also set his single game scoring high, fittingly, against the Cavaliers.

2. Magic Johnson

Like MJ, Magic addressed one of his few weaknesses as a player, and became good at shooting three-pointers this year. While neither of them attempted enough threes to create modern-ish spacing, it was still a good skill to have regardless. As to be expected, the Lakers had the best offense in the NBA, though Magic lost to the Suns in the playoffs. However, considering Magic’s track record before and after this, I’m willing to chalk that up to bad luck.

3. Charles Barkley

The Sixers continue to place highly in most offensive stats, and Barkley had one of his best years, setting his career high in eFG. Barkley also played well in the postseason, though his loss to MJ makes it hard to rate him higher.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Hakeem Olajuwon

Hakeem has a ridiculous season, getting an absurd number of blocks and steals, while making the Rockets top 10 in most defensive stats. He also achieved his only quadruple double, and the fact that Rodman won DPOTY over him is bizarre.

2. David Robinson

Before Robinson joined the Spurs, they had a mediocre at best defense. With him, they placed in the top 10 of most defensive metrics, just like the Rockets, as the Admiral had arguably the best rookie season ever. Robinson also had one of his better postseasons, though the Spurs were swept in the second round.

3. Clyde Drexler

Besides the Spurs, the Blazers were the only other team as well rounded defensively as the Rockets. Among the team’s starters, Clyde was their 2nd best shot blocker, 3rd best defensive rebounder, and led them in steals. The Blazers also made the Finals, though they lost in a gentleman’s sweep to the Pistons.

Player of the Year

1. Michael Jordan

MJ continues his offensive dominance, despite falling just short of the ultimate prize.

2. Magic Johnson

Magic fixes his essentially only weakness, and keeps being the best playmaker in the league.

3. Clyde Drexler

In addition to being a great defender, Clyde was an exceptional scorer and passer on the Blazers, though his playoff efficiency could be better. Ironically, it was at its best when he lost to the Pistons.

4. David Robinson

Hakeem was the better defender, but Robinson was better offensively than him this year, and also made it farther in the playoffs.

5. Charles Barkley

Barkley’s defensive problems once again rear their head here, as the Sixers were well below average, managing to hold their playoff opponents below 100 points just once in ten games.

[homecourtloss]

I know the post is late but just wanted to make it.

Could go with either Jordan or Magic here and interchange them.

1. Magic
I know I’m repeating myself, but these post 1987 Lakers have been considered part of “Showtime,” but there wasn’t an abundance as has often been thought and regurgitated. It was just Magic doing Magic things. Honestly, the 1990 Lakers shouldn’t have been as good as they were. Not only did they have the #1 ORtg, but they also had 62 wins in Magic’s 79 games including five one possession losses. They did have amazing health luck though. Yes, they lost convincingly to the Suns, but Magic played really well in this series. I can’t remember who it was and it might’ve been 70s fan, but this year and 1990 season for Magic Johnson showed his incredible offensive genius because the Lakers still have the number one rated offense produced by a cast that isn’t the most offensively talented. You have Worthy who is a nice scorer and can score multiple ways, Big O, Scott had a great series vs. the Suns, but overall? Look at that roster—what screams #1 offense? Kareem is washed by now. The 89-91 seasons by Magic are highly underrated.

2. Jordan
Might be peak Jordan considering motor, athleticism, production. The Bulls won many close games so even though the overall net rating was mediocre considering they had peak Jordan with one of the healthiest teams ever as far as games played by their best players, they started to believe they were better than other teams and the tweaks that GoAT coach Phil Jackson made started showing. Three elite playoff series—a few things here and there and they could have won that series vs. the Pistons.

3. Ewing
Might be peak Ewing though anchored better defensive teams later.

4. Hakeem
Not as good of a regular season, but incredible defensive year. Supporting cast and coaching was not good as per usual.

5. Barkley/KJ
Incredible scoring year by Barkley who started showing an increasing repertoire of offensive skills combined by crazy brute force.

KJ had a great season and then played incredible well to close a Lakers team that Magic playing at his best. It’s too bad he got injured vs Portland—that last game he played looked like one of those KJ 40/15 games.