I think a lot of people underrate Duncan’s 2002 season as compared to his 2003 season. Like, yes, he was the best player in 2003 as well, but 2002 may have been his true peak.
He had the highest pp100 of his career. He has the highest Ortg of his prime and 2nd highest of his career, and his Drtg of 96 was still in the ballpark of his usual seasons; he did all this with maybe the worst support cast of his career. He has the 3rd highest TS% of his career, and the highest was only 003. higher off lower volume.
He only missed 1 game this year, due to the death of his father, but when he did it was in the 1st round of the playoffs. The Spurs had every incentive to go all out to win without Duncan, and they were down 57-31 at halftime to the 45 win Sonics. At that point the Sonics just turned the gas off and coasted to victory. The Spurs looked like a freaking G-League team without Tim.
The difference was that in 2003 the support cast was upgraded from horrendous for a contender to merely poor.
Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE — Tim Duncan
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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One_and_Done
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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falcolombardi
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
My thoughts here is that duncan and shaq are probably top 2 players in a "vacuum" with the likes of garnett/kobe/dirk still a notch below (but already better than the paul pierces, ray allens or jason kidds of the world)
Guys like nash are starting to quietly do crazy stuff, and players like webber outplaying dirk head to head complicate this simple hierarchy pyramid a bit (and is always very possible, even likely, that my prior of how good players like dirk or garnett will be just next season makes me over rate them slighlty in 2002)
And there are usual suspects who live in the buffer zone that separates regular all star players from true super stars, paul pierce being a good example of this sub superstar tier that is always a decent dark horse pick to maybe get a 5th POY or 3th OPOY/DPOY in of these lists. Ben wallace, jason kidd, ray allen, mcgrady other such players
On the team success front kings and lakers are clearly the top 2 teams of the year, with very stark contrast between a big 2 stars team and balanced 5 above average to all star level player. Only these two teams managed a +7srs (3rd place spurs got to +6) which is a decent separation mark for these 3 teams in regular season as 4th place dallas is only at +4
Other teams that separated themselves from the mean enough to hit a +3 srs mark include dallas (+4), Spurs, minnesota, portland, seattle (lol west) and east finest new jersey nets (lol east)
Other teams with decent record but weak point differentials are unsurprisingly east teams like paul pierce's boston with 49 wins and a +1.7 srs and ben wallace's detroit 50 wins and +1.7 srs
Iverson and mutombo's Philadelphia, ageing malone and stockton jazz or the orlando tracey mcgrady's are 3 teams who manage to be on the upper limit of mediocrity with low 40 winning records and +1 srs
I wont seriously give much thought to anyone below this arbitrary +1 mark, mainly because i dont think there is no one good enough outside these teams to make a list in spite of his team lack of even minimal sucess, albeit i am open to change my mind on this (unlikely as i think it)
(Will continue this post later, dont want it to be accidentallt deleted lmao)
First some of the weak team stars in the +1/low 40's club
The slightly above average team club
Philadelphia sixers. Iverson and mutombo:
iverson has a worse season than 2001 and his team offense falls alongside him. Going from 103.6 to 102.1 may not seem like much, but it brings sixers offense down a full notch below going from a 13th to 23th rank.
Iverson stats are not too dissimilar at first instance but he doesnt accomplish the volume scoring increase and ast/to playoff improvement from 2001. A sllightly worse individual season with somewhat less slightly worse team results (reg season) and this time losing a close series to a decent boston team instead of beating both toronto and bucks (slightly better teams that boston)
Mutombo while very aged at this point gets the strong credit of anchoring a top 4 defense (marginally better than 2001 5th) , on the back of a 5th ranked efg allowed and 7th ranked defensive rebounding making him a worthwhile top 3 dpoy contender even at old age.
His 2.4 blocks in 36 minutes remain a solid mark and more so for a slower paced era showing his rim deterrence value remaining fairly high
Boston celtics and paul pierce
Pierce arguably led the east 2nd best team (damning with faint praise are we) with a semi distant 2nd best srs mark of 1.7 srs, a 3rd seed with 49 wins and a eastern conference finals run beating the slightly above average sixers and pistons before falling in 6 to a respectable but not great nets team. So not a too bad (nor too good) team success
2002 pierce is a decent volume scorer who provides real 3 point shooting value for the time at 6 attempts at game in 40% clip. Good percentage and good volume, specially for the era. His defense has a moderately strong rep and he provides solid rebounding. Unfortunately he seems to be far from a playmaker yet as his assists numbers are fairly underwhelmint. Also Come playoffs time pierce 3pt efficiency craters fwiw
His "co star" is antoine walker who shots a really ahead of his time 8 3 pointers a game at a not too terrible (this season) 34% clip which likely provided some real spacing value (league best .290 3pt rate which wouldnt be out of place as far away as the mid 2010's) to pierce and funnily enough had more assists and better ast/to than paul pierce
They are a below average offense team however albeit a impressive 5th ranked defens with top 6 marks at efg allowed, turnovers forced and defemsive rebounding.
Not too shabby (nor too impressive) of a year for pierce but the impact profile or even boxscore profile of a OPOY contender seems underwhelming. And the notable defense result of which he likely played a big part is not good enough to get him in dpoy top 3 territory either
Orlando and tracey mcgrady
Carried a weak orlando roster to an slightly above average season (44 wins in a weak conference and +1.4 srs in a weak conference)
Mcgrady has similar scoring volume that pierce albeit in league average efficiency, however his assist to turnover ratio amd total assists are fairly higher in a somewhat less talented/floor spacing roster. His turnovers are incredibly low and low turnover rates are one of orlando strongest cards as a 7th ranked offense
Come playoff time he increases his volume heavily and his efficiency slightly which makes it a underated playoff rising playoffs (single series*) run with heavy sample size asterisk
I feel inclined to reward this season in OPOY talks higher than pierce even if losing in 1st round 1-3 to low 40's charlotte is not a good look
Detroit and ben wallace
Another slightly above average +1srs team that didnt beat anyone half decent and lost to a peer team in boston
They were a 8th ranked defense, better than their average 12th ranked offense despite their offense "talent" being strongly offensively slanted with many defensive sieves
Ben had some of his best career box score marks (tricky as defensive box score is) which helps consider this a probably strong prime season for a great, great defender (notable to mention they were good defensively on the back of low turnovers rather than above average efg or def rebounding*)
I wouldnt blame wallace for this considering his roster but it is a notable difference with mutombo sixers who held better efg and def rebounding marks led by dikembe
Utah also had a decent season with similar net rating and record to teams like detroit, orlando, boston or sixers so i guess i will throw a honorable mention to basketball 3rd most famous sexual assaulter karl malone and 2nd most famous anti vaxxer john stockton
A 10th ranked offense on the back of free throws and offensive rebounding more so than efficient shot making like their glory finals losing and western semis choking days. Malone maintains solid volume for the era pace in league average efficiency and a good amount of assists. Stockton remains very efficient in low-mid volume with 13 points amd 60% (+7) ts (would be equivalent of like 15 points today) with effective if not needl3 moving passing
Actual, honest to god, good teams and their best players
East great hope, brooklyn nets and jason kidd
Finally a team that could be called strong or on the limits of that threeshold
League 5th best srs, east best record. Slightly brmow average Offense with a unexpected league best defensive rating (!) In a talented defensive roster (the separation defensively from league average is, however, very low for a league best defense*) they accomplish this on the back of top 5 efg allowed and turnover rate
Offensively they are a very whelming team all around down to their scoring distribution. With 4 players scoring around 14 ppg marks including kidd(the era equivalent of a team with 4 near 20 ppg scorers i suppose)
neither of them specially brilliant in ther midly high volume with only kerry kittles being above average efficiency (van horn, kenyon martin and kidd all have wizards jordan efficiency in a ~3 TO ~4 brlow average true shooting, bad team at getting free throws) their offense marks in all 4 factors are all in the average area too!
Kidd is the highest minutes player and -arguably- most important defender (my instinct would say kenyon may have been a bit more important but that is a possitional assumption not backed by much), they havr other plus defenders like richard jefferson and per his reputation kerry kittles who i am unfamiliar with
Kidd is clearly their best player. A high assists total with a good 3~ ast/to ratio. 15 ppg scorer who raises to 19ppg in a finals run without dropping efficiency(!), from his -4% ts(!). His steals and rebounds are strong , particularly his offensive rebounding is unusually good for a guard (1.6 offensive boards!) A defensive coordinator on the floor, strong POA + help defender with positional versatility to guard 1-3, good D rebounder and helps the defense with a decently good turnover rate
He is at a glance one of the most impressive non defensive bigs and likely will earn a Honorable mention in my dpoy vote
Seattle supersonics and gary payton last dance (tm)
Gary Payton's Seattle is not usually a team we talk about much post 96, let alone in the 00's well past their contending years but payton likely had his last "great" year here
The team was a strong +3 srs, 45 win record albeit in a tough conference, did so on the back of a stromg 5th ranked offense with a 3rd (!) Best efg% and a strong 8th ranked turnover rate
Like a lot of gary payton career, he was more valuablr offensively than defensively relative to general perception. Team led scorer at 22 ppg (roughly equivalent to like a 25 ppg guy today) surrounded by a balanced offense with 4 other guys in a 13-15 ppg range. High team efficiency shooting is usually the mark of great lead guard play and low turnovers cam also be strongly linked to him
9 assists and 2.5 turnovers is a nice balance for any guard and the 22 ppg is strong for a guard at that era albeit in league average efficiency as he was not getting to the line anymore
In playoffs however his assists cratered with a 5.6/2.5 ast/to ratio instead. His efficiency hit well below average at a -5% clip too
On the other hand they managed to take spurs to 5 somehow albeit clearly not on the back of payton offensive production
His best teammate likely was a surprisingly efficient brent barry shooting season (42% from 3 in 5 attempts a game) in a ELITE 65%ts for the era (+12) in 14 ppg whose volume, however fell of a cliff in post seaso. a young rashard lewis also scored a moderately efficient 17 ppg in the regular season so good for him!
Had payton offense not struggled so mucy against an admiteddly strong spurs D i would give him morr serious OPOY consideration as at least a strong honorable mention
Jail blazers last decent year and rasheed wallace
While rashed is a player who will get a honorable mention -defensively- the offense orriented blazers were only an average defensive team (probably a good result for their roster) with a strong offense carried by good offensive rebounding (3rd) with slightly above average efficiency shooting (10th)
Their defense was above average im most aspects but brought down by a high efg% allowed in the bottom 5 of the league at 24th(!) A brow raising result...but rasheed was likely their only real plus defender considering pippen being 36, portland played defensive weaknesses like the tiny damon stoudamire and a defensively mediocre, decent (reg season*) scoring season from bonzy wells.
With no other real rim protector than their power forward who was also their lead scorer
Their offense was carried by team wide offensive rebounding with 7 players above 1 offensive board (including damon stoudamire at 1.0!). Rashed and bonzi got 1.7 but the real stars there were dale davis ewith over 3 off rebounds as a starter amd ruben patterson 2.4 off the bench
In playoffs bonzy efficiency was dreadful and pippen may have been their second best offense player at 36 so losing 0-3 to a great lakers team is not somrthingh i hold against rasheed. Will make my dpoy honorable mentions
Near prime Kevin garnett is kinda nice
In a bigger picture garnett's minnesots is a similar team to rasheed's blazers, just like in a vacuum rasheed is a similar-ish power forward to garnett
And while the teams are similarly good, garnett footprint is more impresisve even before his prime proper at 2003
They are a 4th ranked offense with good top 10 marks in efg, turnovers and offense rebounding. Only being subpar in generating free throws ( very garnett esque identity) similar marks to blazers with better shooting but worse offense rebounding
In defense minny is 2nd (!) At defensive rebounding but cannot force turnovers at 25th place out of 28. Their efg allowed and ft allowed are average. The efg average mark is nice in a team lacking a rim protecting center along garnett or better perimeter defenders (and another feather in pre prime garnett over rasheed*)
Garnett scores 21 ppg which is good for the era (likely equibalent to like 24 ppg today) but not too great for a lead scorer with only league average efficiency
However his assists are really good for a big at the time 5.2 ast/2.8 turnovers showing his playmaking value as a proto point-big
Garnett best teammates are wally szczerbiak and basketball least famous all star to be accused of rape (a young chauncey billups) are his best teammates
They provide comparable low 20's ppg in midly above average efficiency. Where garnett efficiency drops heavily in increased volume
This is a weird garnett season in the sense his team is a lot better offensively but his own offense numbers are not quite there yet, specially in playoffs.
In a vacuum he feels like he should be higher in both lists skill wise but the team results are not as good (but great for his roster) amd tje offense individual numbers are not quite there, playoffa droppimg doesnt help
Likely to be a homorable mentiom 4th or 5th place dpoy vote alongside kidd
Dallas mavericks and the what could have been of dirk and nash
This is the first year that nash and dirk clearly showed up together as two of the league most talented offensive talents ( and later on we realized two of the most talented ever) and dallas was led by them to be a league clean 4th best team im both record and point differential (if a distant 4th at that)
25th ranked defense, yet league best (!) Offense with much more separation than nets had on defense. All time level offensive rating carried by a league best turnover rate (heavily associated with dirk goat tier turnover rate) and a league 2nd best efg% (dirk has a lot to do with this as a floor spacer and scorer but nash as the star playmaming point guard and a great scorer on his own right may do even more so)
They won 57 games with a +4 srs. Comfortably a near contender team in am average year, but too dragged down by bad defense in spite of great offense
Stromg regular season and beat a good minnesota team in a 3-0 sweep before being dominated 4-1 by a title level team in sacramento
Nash was a very efficient for era (60%ts/+7 ts) in middly high volume for the time at 17 ppg, in playoffs he had a small efficiency drop (normal for playoffs vs brtter teams) in a bit higher volume. Played well vs sacramento in particular. His assists in volume are not yet what they will be latter (and his turmovers are relatively high for his good but not yet great assists numbers)
Dirk had a strong scoring season for the era with 23 ppg and 60%ts, and maintained his scoring rate in the playoffs well or at least vs minnesota but dropped vs sacramento. His turnovers were incredibly low too
Their best teammates were a good bemch scoring seasom from nick van exel and a impressive playoff run by michael finley who increased volume and efficiency + low turnovers
Both of these are impressive OPOY years, the regular season is a big achievement for them but they didnt dominate offensively or play as well as a team vs strong competition like sacramento which will limit them for POY consideration, albeit dirk may compete for 5th there still. Both are worthy HM/3th or evem 2md place nods for OPOY
The actual contenders feat duncan carryjob
San antonio spurs and tim duncan
3rd best record and srs on the back of strong defense with duncan leading them to a league 2nd ranked defense and 9th ranked offense (2 way impact!) As their best player by far in both ends
Their offense is mostly carried by a league 2nd best(!) Free throw rate thanks in big part to duncan and a good shooting efficiency. On the defensive end they are the league best team at limiting efg% (!) And a 3rd best ft rate allowed (!) Both hallmarks of a duncan led defense
On a individual level duncan led a great for him .800 ft shooting, a great rebounding rate (3.3 offensive boards), a decent ast/tov ratio for a big of 3.7 to 2.5 and a strong for era 25 ppg scoring rate in a good +4 efficiency. He actually increases his scoring to 28 ppg with only a moderate efficiency loss against playoffs competition
This is probably the league best individual regular season, even more so with shaq missed games and a strong playoffs performance being better than shaq head to head in their series
A strong POY and DPOY 1st candidate
Sacramento kings and their slightly leading star chris webber
Sacramento is the league best regular season team in both wins and srs and do so by being top end in both ends of the court (slightly more so offensively)
Webber is their lead scorer at 23 ppg, with a strong assists total and ast/tov ratio. Efficiency is only moderately decent albeit with decent playoff resiliency and strong rebounding
Peja is likely the second best player scoring over 20 ppg in elite efficiency albeit with a injury related catastrophic playoff drop in efficiency
Their win over a strong dallas team was rather impressive and taking lakers so close (outscoring them for the series at that) without being a full health shows how much this team was firing in all cilinders albeit webber doesnt stand out statistically enough and there were strong contributions from their whole rotation
The tean results makes him a good call for the top 5 POY but i am unsure he stands out enough on either end of the court to make top 3 In OPOY
Lakers super star duo
Lakers are the league second best regular season team with team who like sacramento was strong on both ends of the court but more so offensively with a 2nd best offense and 7th best defense amd did so with dominant efg% on both ends
Kobe scores a excellent 25 ppg on slightly above average efficiency (+1.5), his assist to turnover ratio is decent if unimpressive and his playoffs drop in efficiency is only moderate in increased volume to a slightly bemow average efficiency which is good but not one of kobe best runs, specially for being a second option
Shaq has a impressive 27 ppg scoring season with strong +6 efficiency. A great 3.5 offensive rebounding and only a small efficiency drop in post season in increased volume. A underated season as a whole
However the missed games, being outplayed by duncan and a lot of inconsistency in the sacramento series take off some luster of his title run
Now for my actual rankinh after saying all my thoughts
DPOY
1- duncan. Not his best team season defensively but still a monstruous season with a very diminished robinson and not yet having the defensively strong slanted roster of later seasons. Old robinson and pre prime bowen make for solid help but a rookie parker and 32 years steve smith are the opposite.
2- wallace. Thought about him at first and his impresisve block rate. But the game played and team result difference weight mote for me here than duncan having better defensive help (by not as much as i thought at first)
3- mutombo, his last year here for me (rest in peace legend) a impressive defensive team once more in a not particularly inpressive defensive roster
HM: garnett by ability he is clearly top 4 in the league albeit his team was much more offensive oriented due to roster construction. Kidd was technically/arguably the best defensive player ln a very strong defense team
OPOY
1 shaq- elite offense season, and albeit the shaq/kobe duo didnt get the regular season results dirk and nash did. His individusl run in both reg and playoffs was more impressive than dirk
2 dirk- best offense player in the best (by far) offense team albeit the playoffs series vs saceamento brings him down a bit
3- nash, considered kobe and webber here. And while it would make sense to reward webber and sacramento i also think the crazy offense produced by dallas deserves a big shout out. They were not even sellinh out for offense either like they would i 2004
HM: Webber kobe, garnett
Overall POY
1- duncan. Felt like somewhat clearly that hr played the best in both reg season and playoffs even if the later was only 2 rounds
2- shaq. Title run and strong season but didnt feel like he matched duncan at either part of the season individually
3- dirk. Great regular season but cannot go much higher with lack of more team success
4- webber, really good season in a team with a lot of talent adding to more than the sum of their parts
5- kidd. Imprssive impact signals in a good but not great team whose team success comes with a decent sized east asterisk
Guys like nash are starting to quietly do crazy stuff, and players like webber outplaying dirk head to head complicate this simple hierarchy pyramid a bit (and is always very possible, even likely, that my prior of how good players like dirk or garnett will be just next season makes me over rate them slighlty in 2002)
And there are usual suspects who live in the buffer zone that separates regular all star players from true super stars, paul pierce being a good example of this sub superstar tier that is always a decent dark horse pick to maybe get a 5th POY or 3th OPOY/DPOY in of these lists. Ben wallace, jason kidd, ray allen, mcgrady other such players
On the team success front kings and lakers are clearly the top 2 teams of the year, with very stark contrast between a big 2 stars team and balanced 5 above average to all star level player. Only these two teams managed a +7srs (3rd place spurs got to +6) which is a decent separation mark for these 3 teams in regular season as 4th place dallas is only at +4
Other teams that separated themselves from the mean enough to hit a +3 srs mark include dallas (+4), Spurs, minnesota, portland, seattle (lol west) and east finest new jersey nets (lol east)
Other teams with decent record but weak point differentials are unsurprisingly east teams like paul pierce's boston with 49 wins and a +1.7 srs and ben wallace's detroit 50 wins and +1.7 srs
Iverson and mutombo's Philadelphia, ageing malone and stockton jazz or the orlando tracey mcgrady's are 3 teams who manage to be on the upper limit of mediocrity with low 40 winning records and +1 srs
I wont seriously give much thought to anyone below this arbitrary +1 mark, mainly because i dont think there is no one good enough outside these teams to make a list in spite of his team lack of even minimal sucess, albeit i am open to change my mind on this (unlikely as i think it)
(Will continue this post later, dont want it to be accidentallt deleted lmao)
First some of the weak team stars in the +1/low 40's club
The slightly above average team club
Philadelphia sixers. Iverson and mutombo:
iverson has a worse season than 2001 and his team offense falls alongside him. Going from 103.6 to 102.1 may not seem like much, but it brings sixers offense down a full notch below going from a 13th to 23th rank.
Iverson stats are not too dissimilar at first instance but he doesnt accomplish the volume scoring increase and ast/to playoff improvement from 2001. A sllightly worse individual season with somewhat less slightly worse team results (reg season) and this time losing a close series to a decent boston team instead of beating both toronto and bucks (slightly better teams that boston)
Mutombo while very aged at this point gets the strong credit of anchoring a top 4 defense (marginally better than 2001 5th) , on the back of a 5th ranked efg allowed and 7th ranked defensive rebounding making him a worthwhile top 3 dpoy contender even at old age.
His 2.4 blocks in 36 minutes remain a solid mark and more so for a slower paced era showing his rim deterrence value remaining fairly high
Boston celtics and paul pierce
Pierce arguably led the east 2nd best team (damning with faint praise are we) with a semi distant 2nd best srs mark of 1.7 srs, a 3rd seed with 49 wins and a eastern conference finals run beating the slightly above average sixers and pistons before falling in 6 to a respectable but not great nets team. So not a too bad (nor too good) team success
2002 pierce is a decent volume scorer who provides real 3 point shooting value for the time at 6 attempts at game in 40% clip. Good percentage and good volume, specially for the era. His defense has a moderately strong rep and he provides solid rebounding. Unfortunately he seems to be far from a playmaker yet as his assists numbers are fairly underwhelmint. Also Come playoffs time pierce 3pt efficiency craters fwiw
His "co star" is antoine walker who shots a really ahead of his time 8 3 pointers a game at a not too terrible (this season) 34% clip which likely provided some real spacing value (league best .290 3pt rate which wouldnt be out of place as far away as the mid 2010's) to pierce and funnily enough had more assists and better ast/to than paul pierce
They are a below average offense team however albeit a impressive 5th ranked defens with top 6 marks at efg allowed, turnovers forced and defemsive rebounding.
Not too shabby (nor too impressive) of a year for pierce but the impact profile or even boxscore profile of a OPOY contender seems underwhelming. And the notable defense result of which he likely played a big part is not good enough to get him in dpoy top 3 territory either
Orlando and tracey mcgrady
Carried a weak orlando roster to an slightly above average season (44 wins in a weak conference and +1.4 srs in a weak conference)
Mcgrady has similar scoring volume that pierce albeit in league average efficiency, however his assist to turnover ratio amd total assists are fairly higher in a somewhat less talented/floor spacing roster. His turnovers are incredibly low and low turnover rates are one of orlando strongest cards as a 7th ranked offense
Come playoff time he increases his volume heavily and his efficiency slightly which makes it a underated playoff rising playoffs (single series*) run with heavy sample size asterisk
I feel inclined to reward this season in OPOY talks higher than pierce even if losing in 1st round 1-3 to low 40's charlotte is not a good look
Detroit and ben wallace
Another slightly above average +1srs team that didnt beat anyone half decent and lost to a peer team in boston
They were a 8th ranked defense, better than their average 12th ranked offense despite their offense "talent" being strongly offensively slanted with many defensive sieves
Ben had some of his best career box score marks (tricky as defensive box score is) which helps consider this a probably strong prime season for a great, great defender (notable to mention they were good defensively on the back of low turnovers rather than above average efg or def rebounding*)
I wouldnt blame wallace for this considering his roster but it is a notable difference with mutombo sixers who held better efg and def rebounding marks led by dikembe
Utah also had a decent season with similar net rating and record to teams like detroit, orlando, boston or sixers so i guess i will throw a honorable mention to basketball 3rd most famous sexual assaulter karl malone and 2nd most famous anti vaxxer john stockton
A 10th ranked offense on the back of free throws and offensive rebounding more so than efficient shot making like their glory finals losing and western semis choking days. Malone maintains solid volume for the era pace in league average efficiency and a good amount of assists. Stockton remains very efficient in low-mid volume with 13 points amd 60% (+7) ts (would be equivalent of like 15 points today) with effective if not needl3 moving passing
Actual, honest to god, good teams and their best players
East great hope, brooklyn nets and jason kidd
Finally a team that could be called strong or on the limits of that threeshold
League 5th best srs, east best record. Slightly brmow average Offense with a unexpected league best defensive rating (!) In a talented defensive roster (the separation defensively from league average is, however, very low for a league best defense*) they accomplish this on the back of top 5 efg allowed and turnover rate
Offensively they are a very whelming team all around down to their scoring distribution. With 4 players scoring around 14 ppg marks including kidd(the era equivalent of a team with 4 near 20 ppg scorers i suppose)
neither of them specially brilliant in ther midly high volume with only kerry kittles being above average efficiency (van horn, kenyon martin and kidd all have wizards jordan efficiency in a ~3 TO ~4 brlow average true shooting, bad team at getting free throws) their offense marks in all 4 factors are all in the average area too!
Kidd is the highest minutes player and -arguably- most important defender (my instinct would say kenyon may have been a bit more important but that is a possitional assumption not backed by much), they havr other plus defenders like richard jefferson and per his reputation kerry kittles who i am unfamiliar with
Kidd is clearly their best player. A high assists total with a good 3~ ast/to ratio. 15 ppg scorer who raises to 19ppg in a finals run without dropping efficiency(!), from his -4% ts(!). His steals and rebounds are strong , particularly his offensive rebounding is unusually good for a guard (1.6 offensive boards!) A defensive coordinator on the floor, strong POA + help defender with positional versatility to guard 1-3, good D rebounder and helps the defense with a decently good turnover rate
He is at a glance one of the most impressive non defensive bigs and likely will earn a Honorable mention in my dpoy vote
Seattle supersonics and gary payton last dance (tm)
Gary Payton's Seattle is not usually a team we talk about much post 96, let alone in the 00's well past their contending years but payton likely had his last "great" year here
The team was a strong +3 srs, 45 win record albeit in a tough conference, did so on the back of a stromg 5th ranked offense with a 3rd (!) Best efg% and a strong 8th ranked turnover rate
Like a lot of gary payton career, he was more valuablr offensively than defensively relative to general perception. Team led scorer at 22 ppg (roughly equivalent to like a 25 ppg guy today) surrounded by a balanced offense with 4 other guys in a 13-15 ppg range. High team efficiency shooting is usually the mark of great lead guard play and low turnovers cam also be strongly linked to him
9 assists and 2.5 turnovers is a nice balance for any guard and the 22 ppg is strong for a guard at that era albeit in league average efficiency as he was not getting to the line anymore
In playoffs however his assists cratered with a 5.6/2.5 ast/to ratio instead. His efficiency hit well below average at a -5% clip too
On the other hand they managed to take spurs to 5 somehow albeit clearly not on the back of payton offensive production
His best teammate likely was a surprisingly efficient brent barry shooting season (42% from 3 in 5 attempts a game) in a ELITE 65%ts for the era (+12) in 14 ppg whose volume, however fell of a cliff in post seaso. a young rashard lewis also scored a moderately efficient 17 ppg in the regular season so good for him!
Had payton offense not struggled so mucy against an admiteddly strong spurs D i would give him morr serious OPOY consideration as at least a strong honorable mention
Jail blazers last decent year and rasheed wallace
While rashed is a player who will get a honorable mention -defensively- the offense orriented blazers were only an average defensive team (probably a good result for their roster) with a strong offense carried by good offensive rebounding (3rd) with slightly above average efficiency shooting (10th)
Their defense was above average im most aspects but brought down by a high efg% allowed in the bottom 5 of the league at 24th(!) A brow raising result...but rasheed was likely their only real plus defender considering pippen being 36, portland played defensive weaknesses like the tiny damon stoudamire and a defensively mediocre, decent (reg season*) scoring season from bonzy wells.
With no other real rim protector than their power forward who was also their lead scorer
Their offense was carried by team wide offensive rebounding with 7 players above 1 offensive board (including damon stoudamire at 1.0!). Rashed and bonzi got 1.7 but the real stars there were dale davis ewith over 3 off rebounds as a starter amd ruben patterson 2.4 off the bench
In playoffs bonzy efficiency was dreadful and pippen may have been their second best offense player at 36 so losing 0-3 to a great lakers team is not somrthingh i hold against rasheed. Will make my dpoy honorable mentions
Near prime Kevin garnett is kinda nice
In a bigger picture garnett's minnesots is a similar team to rasheed's blazers, just like in a vacuum rasheed is a similar-ish power forward to garnett
And while the teams are similarly good, garnett footprint is more impresisve even before his prime proper at 2003
They are a 4th ranked offense with good top 10 marks in efg, turnovers and offense rebounding. Only being subpar in generating free throws ( very garnett esque identity) similar marks to blazers with better shooting but worse offense rebounding
In defense minny is 2nd (!) At defensive rebounding but cannot force turnovers at 25th place out of 28. Their efg allowed and ft allowed are average. The efg average mark is nice in a team lacking a rim protecting center along garnett or better perimeter defenders (and another feather in pre prime garnett over rasheed*)
Garnett scores 21 ppg which is good for the era (likely equibalent to like 24 ppg today) but not too great for a lead scorer with only league average efficiency
However his assists are really good for a big at the time 5.2 ast/2.8 turnovers showing his playmaking value as a proto point-big
Garnett best teammates are wally szczerbiak and basketball least famous all star to be accused of rape (a young chauncey billups) are his best teammates
They provide comparable low 20's ppg in midly above average efficiency. Where garnett efficiency drops heavily in increased volume
This is a weird garnett season in the sense his team is a lot better offensively but his own offense numbers are not quite there yet, specially in playoffs.
In a vacuum he feels like he should be higher in both lists skill wise but the team results are not as good (but great for his roster) amd tje offense individual numbers are not quite there, playoffa droppimg doesnt help
Likely to be a homorable mentiom 4th or 5th place dpoy vote alongside kidd
Dallas mavericks and the what could have been of dirk and nash
This is the first year that nash and dirk clearly showed up together as two of the league most talented offensive talents ( and later on we realized two of the most talented ever) and dallas was led by them to be a league clean 4th best team im both record and point differential (if a distant 4th at that)
25th ranked defense, yet league best (!) Offense with much more separation than nets had on defense. All time level offensive rating carried by a league best turnover rate (heavily associated with dirk goat tier turnover rate) and a league 2nd best efg% (dirk has a lot to do with this as a floor spacer and scorer but nash as the star playmaming point guard and a great scorer on his own right may do even more so)
They won 57 games with a +4 srs. Comfortably a near contender team in am average year, but too dragged down by bad defense in spite of great offense
Stromg regular season and beat a good minnesota team in a 3-0 sweep before being dominated 4-1 by a title level team in sacramento
Nash was a very efficient for era (60%ts/+7 ts) in middly high volume for the time at 17 ppg, in playoffs he had a small efficiency drop (normal for playoffs vs brtter teams) in a bit higher volume. Played well vs sacramento in particular. His assists in volume are not yet what they will be latter (and his turmovers are relatively high for his good but not yet great assists numbers)
Dirk had a strong scoring season for the era with 23 ppg and 60%ts, and maintained his scoring rate in the playoffs well or at least vs minnesota but dropped vs sacramento. His turnovers were incredibly low too
Their best teammates were a good bemch scoring seasom from nick van exel and a impressive playoff run by michael finley who increased volume and efficiency + low turnovers
Both of these are impressive OPOY years, the regular season is a big achievement for them but they didnt dominate offensively or play as well as a team vs strong competition like sacramento which will limit them for POY consideration, albeit dirk may compete for 5th there still. Both are worthy HM/3th or evem 2md place nods for OPOY
The actual contenders feat duncan carryjob
San antonio spurs and tim duncan
3rd best record and srs on the back of strong defense with duncan leading them to a league 2nd ranked defense and 9th ranked offense (2 way impact!) As their best player by far in both ends
Their offense is mostly carried by a league 2nd best(!) Free throw rate thanks in big part to duncan and a good shooting efficiency. On the defensive end they are the league best team at limiting efg% (!) And a 3rd best ft rate allowed (!) Both hallmarks of a duncan led defense
On a individual level duncan led a great for him .800 ft shooting, a great rebounding rate (3.3 offensive boards), a decent ast/tov ratio for a big of 3.7 to 2.5 and a strong for era 25 ppg scoring rate in a good +4 efficiency. He actually increases his scoring to 28 ppg with only a moderate efficiency loss against playoffs competition
This is probably the league best individual regular season, even more so with shaq missed games and a strong playoffs performance being better than shaq head to head in their series
A strong POY and DPOY 1st candidate
Sacramento kings and their slightly leading star chris webber
Sacramento is the league best regular season team in both wins and srs and do so by being top end in both ends of the court (slightly more so offensively)
Webber is their lead scorer at 23 ppg, with a strong assists total and ast/tov ratio. Efficiency is only moderately decent albeit with decent playoff resiliency and strong rebounding
Peja is likely the second best player scoring over 20 ppg in elite efficiency albeit with a injury related catastrophic playoff drop in efficiency
Their win over a strong dallas team was rather impressive and taking lakers so close (outscoring them for the series at that) without being a full health shows how much this team was firing in all cilinders albeit webber doesnt stand out statistically enough and there were strong contributions from their whole rotation
The tean results makes him a good call for the top 5 POY but i am unsure he stands out enough on either end of the court to make top 3 In OPOY
Lakers super star duo
Lakers are the league second best regular season team with team who like sacramento was strong on both ends of the court but more so offensively with a 2nd best offense and 7th best defense amd did so with dominant efg% on both ends
Kobe scores a excellent 25 ppg on slightly above average efficiency (+1.5), his assist to turnover ratio is decent if unimpressive and his playoffs drop in efficiency is only moderate in increased volume to a slightly bemow average efficiency which is good but not one of kobe best runs, specially for being a second option
Shaq has a impressive 27 ppg scoring season with strong +6 efficiency. A great 3.5 offensive rebounding and only a small efficiency drop in post season in increased volume. A underated season as a whole
However the missed games, being outplayed by duncan and a lot of inconsistency in the sacramento series take off some luster of his title run
Now for my actual rankinh after saying all my thoughts
DPOY
1- duncan. Not his best team season defensively but still a monstruous season with a very diminished robinson and not yet having the defensively strong slanted roster of later seasons. Old robinson and pre prime bowen make for solid help but a rookie parker and 32 years steve smith are the opposite.
2- wallace. Thought about him at first and his impresisve block rate. But the game played and team result difference weight mote for me here than duncan having better defensive help (by not as much as i thought at first)
3- mutombo, his last year here for me (rest in peace legend) a impressive defensive team once more in a not particularly inpressive defensive roster
HM: garnett by ability he is clearly top 4 in the league albeit his team was much more offensive oriented due to roster construction. Kidd was technically/arguably the best defensive player ln a very strong defense team
OPOY
1 shaq- elite offense season, and albeit the shaq/kobe duo didnt get the regular season results dirk and nash did. His individusl run in both reg and playoffs was more impressive than dirk
2 dirk- best offense player in the best (by far) offense team albeit the playoffs series vs saceamento brings him down a bit
3- nash, considered kobe and webber here. And while it would make sense to reward webber and sacramento i also think the crazy offense produced by dallas deserves a big shout out. They were not even sellinh out for offense either like they would i 2004
HM: Webber kobe, garnett
Overall POY
1- duncan. Felt like somewhat clearly that hr played the best in both reg season and playoffs even if the later was only 2 rounds
2- shaq. Title run and strong season but didnt feel like he matched duncan at either part of the season individually
3- dirk. Great regular season but cannot go much higher with lack of more team success
4- webber, really good season in a team with a lot of talent adding to more than the sum of their parts
5- kidd. Imprssive impact signals in a good but not great team whose team success comes with a decent sized east asterisk
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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OhayoKD
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
Voting Post
1. Tim Duncan
Spurs post a +6.8 SRS and win 58 games with Duncan playing 11 more minutes than David Robinson who, like all of the Spurs other players play under 30 minutes. This is a peak Russell sort of minutes disparity indicative of a rather massive gap between Duncan and his teammates. The Spurs in general are average without Duncan for his prime and this might well be the weakest support he plays with. Duncan is, despite a gigantic minutes lead working against him, holds a notable advantage in RAPM against his primary competition for player of the year and that's before we get into the postseason:
That Shaq went off in the next two rounds is if anything a testament to Duncan's defensive performance with Robinson playing 3 of 4 games and averaging 25 minutes as Duncan not only shut-down Shaq (he has a habit of doing this), but outscored Shaq. He also matched him for assists and massively outrebounded him cementing that he, not Shaq, should be considered the "most dominant".
Unless someone wishes to make the case Shaq was massively advantaged as a help-defender, his playmaking was actually alot more valuable even though he had Kobe Bryant to deflect defensive attention, Duncan vs Shaq, individually, looks like a cousin of Hakeem vs David Robinson. And on top of being the best regular-season player, Duncan dominating Shaq to force a 4-point M.O.V series/5-game series as close to himself as we've seen of any POY-Winner since 93 Olajuwon should cement, not weaken his claim to POY. Regardless, he should win, and I expect he will win comfortably en-route to winning three of five (and splitting a 4th) during Shaq's heyday. For this voting bloc, he's the best of the 2000s. For my money, he's the best between Jabbar and James. When the best player in the league plays the best, the only place I can put him is 1.
2. Shaq
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Dirk
The 2nd best player and is excellent when he isn't facing the best. In the context of a team with Kobe Bryant I'm unsure he's still the league's most prolific creator but he creates a shitton and whenever he isn't playing Duncan, he scores alot too. Pair that with good defense and a title and it's hard to put him lower. The only other player who warrants consideration in my eye is Garnett. But whatever his RAPM is, it's hard to evaluate his seasonal impact when he's missing 1 game, and whatever Shaq's RAPM is, his signals still paint him as a peer for both. With that in mind for Garnett to top Shaq en-route to a title I'd need to see something special in the playoffs. Getting obliterated by 23 year old Dirk is not special. Even if I take RAPM over all else and accept that him winning 50 was a as good-as-anyone-not-named-lebron level regular-season carry job, they don't play like a +3 srs team in the playoffs. They play like a -5 one. And they aren't losing to an eventual champion or eventual finalist or almost eventual champion or almost eventual finalist. They're lose to the Mavericks, who lose in 5 to the Kings, who lose in 7 to the Lakers. And it's not remotely close. If anything maybe he should be placed lower. If Dirk had played like he did vs the Wolves against the Kings I already would have.
5. Kobe Bryant
Minutes lead on the champion. There's no real way to argue he's the best like 2001, but for a 2nd-straight year he shows he can keep a top-heavy LA side afloat minus Shaq. And for a 2nd straight year he plays a critical part in winning a title. That's enough to make my top 5. Apologies to Webber but when the best argument is "outplayed #4 for one series, outlier year with 2023 Jamal Murray level signal", it's tough for me to consider that ballot-worthy.
OPOY
1. Shaq
2. Dirk
3. Kobe Bryant
DPOY
1. Tim Duncan
2. Ben Wallace
3. Kevin Garnett
1. Tim Duncan
Spurs post a +6.8 SRS and win 58 games with Duncan playing 11 more minutes than David Robinson who, like all of the Spurs other players play under 30 minutes. This is a peak Russell sort of minutes disparity indicative of a rather massive gap between Duncan and his teammates. The Spurs in general are average without Duncan for his prime and this might well be the weakest support he plays with. Duncan is, despite a gigantic minutes lead working against him, holds a notable advantage in RAPM against his primary competition for player of the year and that's before we get into the postseason:
Spoiler:
That Shaq went off in the next two rounds is if anything a testament to Duncan's defensive performance with Robinson playing 3 of 4 games and averaging 25 minutes as Duncan not only shut-down Shaq (he has a habit of doing this), but outscored Shaq. He also matched him for assists and massively outrebounded him cementing that he, not Shaq, should be considered the "most dominant".
Unless someone wishes to make the case Shaq was massively advantaged as a help-defender, his playmaking was actually alot more valuable even though he had Kobe Bryant to deflect defensive attention, Duncan vs Shaq, individually, looks like a cousin of Hakeem vs David Robinson. And on top of being the best regular-season player, Duncan dominating Shaq to force a 4-point M.O.V series/5-game series as close to himself as we've seen of any POY-Winner since 93 Olajuwon should cement, not weaken his claim to POY. Regardless, he should win, and I expect he will win comfortably en-route to winning three of five (and splitting a 4th) during Shaq's heyday. For this voting bloc, he's the best of the 2000s. For my money, he's the best between Jabbar and James. When the best player in the league plays the best, the only place I can put him is 1.
2. Shaq
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Dirk
The 2nd best player and is excellent when he isn't facing the best. In the context of a team with Kobe Bryant I'm unsure he's still the league's most prolific creator but he creates a shitton and whenever he isn't playing Duncan, he scores alot too. Pair that with good defense and a title and it's hard to put him lower. The only other player who warrants consideration in my eye is Garnett. But whatever his RAPM is, it's hard to evaluate his seasonal impact when he's missing 1 game, and whatever Shaq's RAPM is, his signals still paint him as a peer for both. With that in mind for Garnett to top Shaq en-route to a title I'd need to see something special in the playoffs. Getting obliterated by 23 year old Dirk is not special. Even if I take RAPM over all else and accept that him winning 50 was a as good-as-anyone-not-named-lebron level regular-season carry job, they don't play like a +3 srs team in the playoffs. They play like a -5 one. And they aren't losing to an eventual champion or eventual finalist or almost eventual champion or almost eventual finalist. They're lose to the Mavericks, who lose in 5 to the Kings, who lose in 7 to the Lakers. And it's not remotely close. If anything maybe he should be placed lower. If Dirk had played like he did vs the Wolves against the Kings I already would have.
5. Kobe Bryant
Minutes lead on the champion. There's no real way to argue he's the best like 2001, but for a 2nd-straight year he shows he can keep a top-heavy LA side afloat minus Shaq. And for a 2nd straight year he plays a critical part in winning a title. That's enough to make my top 5. Apologies to Webber but when the best argument is "outplayed #4 for one series, outlier year with 2023 Jamal Murray level signal", it's tough for me to consider that ballot-worthy.
OPOY
1. Shaq
2. Dirk
3. Kobe Bryant
DPOY
1. Tim Duncan
2. Ben Wallace
3. Kevin Garnett
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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Paulluxx9000
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Jkidd
KG
Duncan’s at his best now here’s the final version
This year and the next it all comes together. Even in defeat he’s incredible. Neutralizing the best and most physically unstoppable offensive player in the game with Robinson almost a non-factor and then torching the Lakers on the other end.
Diesel isn’t so dominant but still.
He’s lost a step and like usual when Duncan comes he isn’t the same. But he’s incredible the last two rounds eviscerating the Kings and the Nets to secure the three-peat. It’s his last real great year.
Kobe’s a superstar though he doesn’t play as super as last time. He can roam, he can drive, he can dunk (not like MJ). He doesn’t have the size to get by or through traffic like a Lebron, or even just get by like Jordan. But he’s smart, precise with his moves, and is a truly versatile piece able to do everything well and, if he has to face the traffic, he can shoot over it as well as nearly anyone. He would have been incredible with illegal defense, but he’s good enough now. There is no three-peat without Mamba.
4th there’s Kidd.
The nets make a final the first after they left the ABA. They’re overmatched, but a notable achievement all the same. I also think there’s some merit to the general belief that Kidd was one of the best 3 players in the league, even if I don’t think he was personally.
KG
Kevin Garnett is the league’s third best player in normal circumstances, but Dirk blows him away. And I don’t think that incredible defense as it usually is.
Shaq
Kobe
Jkidd
KG
Duncan’s at his best now here’s the final version
Spoiler:
This year and the next it all comes together. Even in defeat he’s incredible. Neutralizing the best and most physically unstoppable offensive player in the game with Robinson almost a non-factor and then torching the Lakers on the other end.
Diesel isn’t so dominant but still.
Spoiler:
He’s lost a step and like usual when Duncan comes he isn’t the same. But he’s incredible the last two rounds eviscerating the Kings and the Nets to secure the three-peat. It’s his last real great year.
Kobe’s a superstar though he doesn’t play as super as last time. He can roam, he can drive, he can dunk (not like MJ). He doesn’t have the size to get by or through traffic like a Lebron, or even just get by like Jordan. But he’s smart, precise with his moves, and is a truly versatile piece able to do everything well and, if he has to face the traffic, he can shoot over it as well as nearly anyone. He would have been incredible with illegal defense, but he’s good enough now. There is no three-peat without Mamba.
4th there’s Kidd.
Spoiler:
The nets make a final the first after they left the ABA. They’re overmatched, but a notable achievement all the same. I also think there’s some merit to the general belief that Kidd was one of the best 3 players in the league, even if I don’t think he was personally.
KG
Spoiler:
Kevin Garnett is the league’s third best player in normal circumstances, but Dirk blows him away. And I don’t think that incredible defense as it usually is.
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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konr0167
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
1. Duncan (easily the best regular season player and is by far the best player in the lakers series)
2. shaq (better than kobe in regular season and unlike last year kobe isn't like crazy superior to shaq in the west run and shaq is ofc finals mvp again)
4. kobe (kobe isn't as superior in the west run compared to last year and shaq still better regular season)
4. dirk (outplays KG)
5. KG (iffy playoffs hurt him if it was not for dirk completely demolishing him and the wolves he could easily make the top 3)
2. shaq (better than kobe in regular season and unlike last year kobe isn't like crazy superior to shaq in the west run and shaq is ofc finals mvp again)
4. kobe (kobe isn't as superior in the west run compared to last year and shaq still better regular season)
4. dirk (outplays KG)
5. KG (iffy playoffs hurt him if it was not for dirk completely demolishing him and the wolves he could easily make the top 3)
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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Lebronnygoat
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
1. Duncan
Probably not best playoffs but outplaying POY canidate H2H and best regular season.
2. Shaq
Top 3 regular season and best playoffs
3. Kobe
One of the best regular seasons but lackluster playoffs
4. KG
Better player than Kobe but not enough playoff volume
5. Kidd
Led his team to finals after being no where close without him
Probably not best playoffs but outplaying POY canidate H2H and best regular season.
2. Shaq
Top 3 regular season and best playoffs
3. Kobe
One of the best regular seasons but lackluster playoffs
4. KG
Better player than Kobe but not enough playoff volume
5. Kidd
Led his team to finals after being no where close without him
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
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AEnigma
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE
Votes are tallied. I recorded 13 approved votes: Djoker, AEnigma, B-Mitch 30, OhayoKD, capfan33, konr0167, falcolombardi, ILikeShaiGuys, Paulluxx, One_and_Done, CEOofKobefans, Lebronnygoat, and trelos. DJoker, AEnigma, B-Mitch 30, CEOofKobefans, Falcolombardi, ILikeShaiGuy, OhayoKD, and trelos voted for both Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year. Please let me know if I seem to have missed or otherwise improperly recorded a vote.
2001-02 Results
(Retro) Offensive Player of the Year — Shaquille O’Neal (5)
(Retro) Defensive Player of the Year — Tim Duncan (2)
Retro Player of the Year — Tim Duncan (3*)
In the prior project, there were 25 votes, with no overlap. These are the aggregated results of the two projects across 38 total ballots:
2003 thread will open shortly.
2001-02 Results
(Retro) Offensive Player of the Year — Shaquille O’Neal (5)
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Shaquille O’Neal 5 1 1 29 0.725
2. Dirk Nowitzki 0 3 3 12 0.300
3. Steve Nash 2 0 1 11 0.275
4. Kobe Bryant 0 2 2 8 0.200
5. Kevin Garnett 1 0 0 5 0.125
6. Rasheed Wallace 0 1 0 3 0.075
7. Tim Duncan 0 0 1 1 0.025(Retro) Defensive Player of the Year — Tim Duncan (2)
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points Shares
1. Tim Duncan 6 1 1 34 0.850
2. Ben Wallace 2 4 1 23 0.575
3. Kevin Garnett 0 2 2 8 0.200
4. Dikembe Mutombo 0 1 2 5 0.125
5. Kenyon Martin 0 0 1 1 0.025
5. Paul Pierce 0 0 1 1 0.025Retro Player of the Year — Tim Duncan (3*)
Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares
1. Tim Duncan 11 2 0 0 0 124 0.954
2. Shaquille O’Neal 2 9 1 0 1 89 0.685
3. Kevin Garnett 0 1 3 3 4 35 0.269
4. Kobe Bryant 0 0 6 1 1 34 0.262
5. Dirk Nowitzki 0 0 1 5 1 21 0.162
6. Chris Webber 0 0 2 1 0 13 0.100
7. Jason Kidd 0 0 0 1 5 8 0.062
8. Paul Pierce 0 1 0 0 0 7 0.054
9. Tracy McGrady 0 0 0 1 0 3 0.023
9. Ben Wallace 0 0 0 1 0 3 0.023
11. Steve Nash 0 0 0 0 1 1 0.008In the prior project, there were 25 votes, with no overlap. These are the aggregated results of the two projects across 38 total ballots:
Spoiler:
2003 thread will open shortly.
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE — Tim Duncan
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lessthanjake
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE — Tim Duncan
Am not certain, but I think this may be the first example where the vote this time around actually tilts the balance of the combined 2010 + 2024 vote. In prior examples of different results from 2010, it was still the case that if you combined the 2010 and 2024 results, the 2010 winner would still win. That’s actually not the case here.
OhayoKD wrote:Lebron contributes more to all the phases of play than Messi does. And he is of course a defensive anchor unlike messi.
Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE — Tim Duncan
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AEnigma
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2001-02 UPDATE — Tim Duncan
lessthanjake wrote:Am not certain, but I think this may be the first example where the vote this time around actually tilts the balance of the combined 2010 + 2024 vote. In prior examples of different results from 2010, it was still the case that if you combined the 2010 and 2024 results, the 2010 winner would still win. That’s actually not the case here.
Also occurred in 1966 and 1985.