Retro Player of the Year 2010-11 — Dirk Nowitzki

[Djoker]

DPOY

3. Joakim Noah - Anchored an elite Bulls team on D.

Just wanted to address this.

As a lifelong Bulls fan, I can tell you that Joakim Noah is one of the most beloved Bulls this side of Michael and Scottie in our fanbase. Personally, he is one of my favorite basketball players of the last 25 years. Rose was the best player on that Thibs Bulls team, but Noah was the soul, the emotional and vocal leader. So maybe I am overcompensating for my own personal bias when I say this, but...I think it's an overstatement to say he anchored that defense.

First off, he only played 48 games - he missed a big portion of the regular season with a shoulder injury.

Second, it was just a great defensive team. Here are DRAPMs for the relevant defensive players on the team:

Regular Season

Luol Deng: 2.21
Ronnie Brewer: 2.98
Omer Asik: 2.52(albiet he only played 12mpg)
Kurt Thomas: 0.98(this is important because it's nearly a 1.0 DRAPM and he started 37 games, most while Noah was out)
Joakim Noah: 0.71
Taj Gibson: 0.68
CJ Watson: 2.06
Keith Bogans: 0.57

Playoffs

Taj Gibson: 2.88
Keith Bogans: 1.39
Luol Deng: 1.34
Ronnie Brewer: 1.31
Kurt Thomas: 1.13(although he didn't play much)
Omer Asik: 0.96
CJ Watson: 0.10
Joakim Noah: -0.08

Now, I certainly think Joakim was a more impactful defender than those DRAPMs for him indicate, but given how much time he missed during the season and how stacked the team was defensively, and the fact that it was the first season for Thibs, who was and is a defensive-coordinator type coach who was ahead of his time and who had just come off architecting historic defenses in Boston, I am inclined to think the Bulls' #1 defense this season was a team effort top-to-bottom and not the result of any one player anchoring it more than another.

I would say Jo probably has a stronger argument in 13 and 14 when the team was weaker overall due to Rose being out and a bunch of bench guys having been let go(Noah won DPOY in 14 and came in 4th in 13; he came in 15th this season).

And again, I say this as someone who, I guarantee you, is a bigger Noah fan than anyone here.

Thanks. Edited. Didn't see that Noah missed so many games for some reason.

[capfan33]

1. Dirk- pretty straightforward, had an excellent regular season and was very impactful given the Mavs record when he was injured. And then had an incredible, inspired playoff run against elite competition culminating in finally getting his ring. LeBron may have still been a bit better as a player but the gap is not anywhere close to what it was seasons prior and along with his finals performance makes it impossible for me to put him first.
2. Wade- honestly don’t feel very strongly about Wade vs LeBron, could see it either way. Wade has a small playoffs edge with the finals but LeBron was prob better in the regular season despite a down year. Very close.
3. Lebron- worst healthy year of his prime offensively by a decent margin as he gained too much weight and had no first step, stunting one of the most important aspects of his game. Was excellent defensively and was also great in the playoffs until the finals.
4. Dwight- still in his prime at a similar level to the prior years. Generally prefer him over Rose due to my confidence in him as a defensive anchor and I also just don’t think Rose was that good, definitely shouldn’t have been MVP this season.
5. Rose- while prob one of the worst MVPs of the 21st century he still had an incredible season on an excellent Bulls team as their main offensive catalyst and prob deserves a spot on this list even if he shouldn’t be near first.

[AEnigma]

Votes are tallied. I recorded 9 approved voters: AEnigma, Djoker, capfan33, Lebronnygoat, OldSchoolNoBull, Paulluxx, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, and trelos. DJoker, AEnigma, OldSchoolNoBull, OhayoKD, and trelos voted for both Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year. Please let me know if I seem to have missed or otherwise improperly recorded a vote.

2010-11 Results

(Retro) Offensive Player of the Year — Dirk Nowitzki (2)

Code: Select all

Player       1st   2nd   3rd   Points  Shares
1. Dirk Nowitzki   4   1   0    23    0.920
2. Lebron James   1   2   1   12    0.480
3. Dwyane Wade   0   2   1    7    0.280
4. Derrick Rose    0   0   2    2    0.080
5. Chris Paul    0   0   1    1    0.040

(Retro) Defensive Player of the Year — Kevin Garnett (3)

Code: Select all

Player         1st   2nd   3rd   Points  Shares
1. Kevin Garnett  3   2   0    21    0.840
2. Dwight Howard   2   2   1    17    0.680
3. Tyson Chandler   0   1   2    5    0.200
4. Andrew Bogut   0   0   1    1    0.040
4. Tim Duncan   0   0   1    1    0.040

Retro Player of the Year — Dirk Nowitzki

Code: Select all

Player      1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts  POY Shares
1. Dirk Nowitzki  6  2  1  0  0    79   0.878
2. Lebron James  3  3  3  0  0   66   0.733
3. Dwight Howard  0  2  3  2  2   37   0.411
4. Dwyane Wade   0  2  1  3  1   29   0.322
5. Kevin Durant  0  0  0  3  1   10   0.111
6. Derrick Rose   0  0  1  0  4   9   0.100
7. Chris Paul   0  0  0  1  0   3   0.033
8. Kobe Bryant   0  0  0  0  1   1   0.011

Now, the 23 votes (with no overlap) in 2011 were contemporaneous, so I am not sure whether they should be grouped with this retroactive assessment. But for now, here are the aggregated results of the two projects across 32 total ballots:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player   1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts  POY Shares
1. Dirk Nowitzki  25  5  2  0  0    295   0.922
2. Lebron James  6  13  9  3  1   206   0.644
3. Dwight Howard  0  9  13  7  3   152   0.475
4. Dwyane Wade   1  5  5  14  4   116   0.363
5. Derrick Rose   0  0  2  3  15   34   0.106
6. Kevin Durant  0  0  1  3  6   20   0.063
7. Chris Paul   0  0  0  2  2   8   0.025
8. Kobe Bryant   0  0  0  0  1   1   0.003

2012 thread is open.

[homecourtloss]

Missed the vote here but for posterity:

1. Dirk: Very good season and great playoffs though finals were not quite as good as the rest of the run. Synergized really well with key teammates playing. The Mavs were better than what their NRtg/SRS indicated when key players were healthy.
2. LeBron. Was still the best overall player but played poorly in the finals by his standards. Did not want to step on good friend’s (Wade’s) toes so never adjusted in the finals even though the entire series would be different had the team made a shot or two in the final 6 minutes of game 2. Also did not help that he had a nonexistent FTr and received no calls (including touch fouls on the perimeter) that would otherwise bolster that mediocre scoring as what happened with other players when they scored poorly. Still went through two -7 defenses and an overall good hear that could have been a lot better.
3. Dwight. Highly underrated stretch for Dwight that ends in his last great year.
4. Wade. Next to last year of prime Wade.
5. DRose. Could put other players here. He should not have won MVP but did have a very good season.

[trex_8063]

I've missed many of these last several threads.

Though for the sake of posterity, I'll state that I agree with the consensus top 4; not necessarily in the same order as people have here (though maybe). I'm pretty sure I'd have Wade 4th of the four, though I'm less certain about Dirk at #1 as the forum at large appears to be. Though truthfully I doubt I can go with LeBron at #1, given the uncharacteristic slump in the playoffs; does that mean I'd have Lebron 3rd, though? idk, sort of doubt that too, because he looks like the clear best player during the rs.

So maybe that means I WOULD have the same order as the consensus here??


#5 is tough. Very likely I'm going with one of Durant or Rose [the latter being one of the more dubious MVP picks in NBA history, imo], though Chris Paul is an intriguing choice, too. Kobe and Gasol [who imo were very much a 1a/1b this year] just miss out, though both in my top 10 for the year (probably Kevin Garnett is the other guy rounding out my top 10).

[Narigo]

1. Dwight Howard- Probably the best season in Howards career. Imo, his post game was improved from before. Played well in playoffs but didn't get any help from teammates. His defense was still elite.

2. Dirk Nowitzki- was favored to win MVP before he got hurt for a strech. His playoff performance was legendary and got his revenge on the Heat in the finals. Got rid of that playoff choker label he had gotten from 06 and 07

3. LeBron James- was low-key the best player in the regular season but impact was not as good as 09 and 10 mostly because he was trying to fit in with his new team. Gdts too much flack from the finals as the heat wouldn't have made it past Chicago without him.

4. Dwayne Wade- Same player as 09 and 10 and was best player in the finals.

5. Derrick Rose- Magical year for him and was arguably the best point guard in the league at this point. Rose gave the Bulls their most successful season post Jordan. Improved Abit from previous seasons by adding a three point shot and his defense was improved from before and after.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Why am I getting like 30 notifications for this?

[trex_8063]

Why am I getting like 30 notifications for this?

He didn't think you'd respond to the first 29......because you're shai.