Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 — Lebron James

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Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 — Lebron James 

Post#1 » by AEnigma » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:08 am

General Project Discussion Thread

Ballots, Discussion, and Results from the Official Player of the Year voting in 2014.

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 players and the top 3 offensive and defensive players of 2013-14.

Player of the Year (POY)(5) — most accomplished overall player of that season
Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY)(3) — most accomplished offensive player of that season
Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY)(3) — most accomplished defensive player of that season

Voting will close sometime after 19:00PM EST on Monday, February 10th. I have no issue keeping it open so long as discussion is strong, but please try to vote within the first three days.

Valid ballots must provide an explanation for your choices that gives us a window into how you thought and why you came to the decisions you did. You can vote for any of the three awards — although they must be complete votes — but I will only tally votes for an award when there are at least five valid ballots submitted for it.

Remember, your votes must be based on THIS season. This is intended to give wide wiggle room for personal philosophies while still providing a boundary to make sure the award can be said to mean something. You can factor things like degree of difficulty as defined by you, but what you can't do is ignore how the player actually played on the floor this season in favor of what he might have done if only...

You may change your vote, but if you do, edit your original post rather than writing, "hey, ignore my last post, this is my real post until I change my mind again.” I similarly ask that ballots be kept in one post rather than making one post for Player of the Year, one post for Offensive Player of the Year, and/or one post for Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to provide your reasoning that way for the sake of discussion, fine, but please keep the official votes themselves in one aggregated post. Finally, for ease of tallying, I prefer for you to place your votes at the beginning of your balloting post, with some formatting that makes them stand out. I will not discount votes which fail to follow these requests, but I am certainly more likely to overlook them.

Contrarian votes can be and have been sincere, but they look a lot more sincere when you take the time to fully present your reasoning rather than transparently pretend nothing is amiss.
Doctor MJ wrote:Vote sincerely. Do not move a player down in your voting to give another player an advantage. I would encourage every voter to give some explanations while they do their voting - but particularly if you have a top 5 that deviates strongly with the norm and you haven't expressed your thoughts on it earlier in the thread. If I'm not satisfied, I may ask you for more of an explanation - and it may come to actually booting people out of the project.

The rules here are that you've got to use the same type of thinking for all 5 votes. I understand putting more thought into #1 than #5, but I don't want PJ Brown votes. Voters do Brown type votes to give a guy an honorable mention. Makes sense if people only care about who finishes 1st, but I've been clear that I want to measure more than that. I've been trying to encourage literal "honorable mentions" to serve that purpose, and I'd ask that people use that as the way they honor guys who did something special but who aren't actually a top 5 guy that year.

There is a significant difference between a properly justified and internally consistent contrarian vote, and a vote whose purpose is to undermine the project itself. Ballots which threaten to do the latter and derail project discussion via blatant vote manipulation are liable to be tossed. If it happens twice, the offending poster will be removed from the project.

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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#2 » by One_and_Done » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:38 am

Well, #1 is going to be an easy pick again. I'll have to think who comes in 2-5 after Lebron.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#3 » by homecourtloss » Sat Feb 8, 2025 12:47 am

Seems like an easy and clear win for LeBron again. I’m curious to see, though, if some of the posters who have used the word “coasting” in other situations will apply the same term to LeBron and his 2014 season. Just curious.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#4 » by AEnigma » Sat Feb 8, 2025 1:09 am

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Joakim Noah
2. Roy Hibbert
3. Tim Duncan


This and 1970 have always been the most difficult DPoY years for me to assess, and Noah earns my top spot basically by default: he played at least 150 more minutes than any big man contender aside from Deandre, he anchored the second best defence, and I have no particular disagreement with or objection to him winning the official award.

Considering Serge Ibaka, Roy Hibbert, Deandre Jordan, Tim Duncan, or Dwight Howard for the final two spots. Removing Dwight for missed time and a first round exit (although he came across as the best player in it). Removing Ibaka for a weaker signal next year when he misses time, and removing Deandre for a weak defensive signal without Chris Paul (this of course is a messy approach because the same signal suggests Paul was not particularly significant on offence… but all the same, it is not a point in Deandre’s favour). So ultimately I will reward Hibbert for being the anchor of an historic Pacers defensive ensemble in the regular season, and Duncan for being the anchor of an historic Spurs ensemble in the postseason.

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Lebron James
2. Steph Curry
3. Kevin Durant?

AEnigma wrote: Great season by Durant. 31.3 points per 75 possessions on 63.5% efficiency for 383.9 TS Add, 95.91 TSI, probably a historically high ScoreVal… but then in the postseason that drops down to 27 points per 75 possessions on 57% efficiency. Meanwhile, regular season Lebron puts up 28.5 per 75 possessions on 64% efficiency for 347 TS Add and 94.17 TSI. Durant’s regular season is better. But then in the postseason? Lebron is 30 per 75 possessions on 66.8% efficiency! And it is not like he was beating up on bad defences; no, that was against three of the top five defences in the league that year (plus the mediocre “superteam” Nets). Focusing on their one common opponent, Durant scored 26 per game on 56% efficiency while Lebron scored 28 per game on 68% efficiency. Not really a question in my mind which of the two I would actually want as my lead scorer.

(And Lebron of course has a substantial advantage as a passer/playmaker/creator over Durant.)

I fear I am starting to look like something of a Chris Paul hater, but really what it comes down to is 1) significant injuries in either the postseason or regular season and 2) total lack of any accomplishment beyond being a good player. This year, he misses twenty games, and his teammate finishes third in MVP voting for leading the team to a 13-6 record without him. He could have excused that in the postseason… and instead he is imo outplayed by the opposing point guard* in both series, albeit not by egregious margins or anything like that (so “in a vacuum” I still think Paul was the better player). Just hard to crack the ballot with those factors weighing against him.

*I excluded Harden for a similar reason.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#5 » by TheGOATRises007 » Sat Feb 8, 2025 2:20 am

AEnigma wrote:

[b][u][color=#004040]Offensive Player of the Year


1. Lebron James
2. Steph Curry
3. Kevin Durant?



What's the argument for Curry over Durant in 2014 on offense?
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#6 » by trelos6 » Sat Feb 8, 2025 2:35 am

OPOY

1.Lebron James. 28.4 pp75, 10.8 rTS%. PS: 28.4, +12.7%. Team rOrtg of +4.3. Top 5 playmaker in the league.

2.Kevin Durant. 31.4 pp75 on +9.4 rTS%. PS: 26.9, +2.9%. Team rOrtg of +3.8. Top 5 playmaker in the league.

3.Stephen Curry. 24.6 pp75 on +6.9 rTS%. PS: 20.25, +5.8%. Team rOrtg of 0.8. Narrowly edges Chris Paul. I think Curry was the best playmaker in the league.

DPOY

1.Andrew Bogut. Defensive anchor of the #4 best defense in the leauge. Sure, he had Iggy and Draymond to help, but most good teams are filled with good defenders. If he didn’t fracture his rib, maybe the Warriors get past the Clippers and make some noise a year early.

2.Kawhi Leonard. As the big men age, another team, this time #3 defense was built off a collection of great team defense. Duncan was the anchor, but young Kawhi was pretty special on D.

3.Paul George. It’s rare a wing is the best defensive player on the #1 defense. And yes, West, Hibbert, Stephenson and Hill were all good defensive players in their own right. But young PG was pretty special on D.


POY

1.Lebron James. +5.78 OPIPM, -0.46 DPIPM, +5.32 PIPM. 18.43 Wins Added. Despite the finals loss, Lebron held his head high.

2.Kevin Durant. +5.38 OPIPM, -0.15 DPIPM, +5.23 PIPM. 19.78 Wins Added.

3.Chris Paul. 20.5 pp75 on +3.9 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +5.4. Basically the same scoring stats in the playoffs. #2 playmaker in the league, and the best passer in the league. Played great defense for a guard. +4.37 OPIPM, +2.34 DPIPM, +6.71 PIPM. 15.46 Wins Added.

4.Steph Curry. +5.3 OPIPM, -0.11 DPIPM, +5.19 PIPM. 15.76 Wins Added. Warriors are now on the radar as a team to watch, with defensive pieces and Curry carrying the offense. If Bogut was healthy, who knows how deep a run they make.

5.Manu Ginobili. Considered my 2 defensive wings, as they were studs, but ultimately, I’m going with a player who’s light on minutes. 23 a game up to 25.5 min in the playoffs, but during those minutes, this guy was IMPACT. 20.5 pp75, +4.9 rTS%. Upped to 21.9, +5% in the playoffs. Top 10 playmaker in the league. Pesky D as usual, super valuable to one of the greatest “teams” in history. +3.72 OPIPM, +0.46 DPIM, +4.18 PIPM. 9.35 Wins Added.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#7 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sat Feb 8, 2025 2:59 am

homecourtloss wrote:Seems like an easy and clear win for LeBron again. I’m curious to see, though, if some of the posters who have used the word “coasting” in other situations will apply the same term to LeBron and his 2014 season. Just curious.


Hard to imagine LeBron coasted too much this year given the injuries to Wade(and how much he declined in the games he played) and the Heat still winning 54 games. Then in the playoffs he's mostly very good to great.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#8 » by AEnigma » Sat Feb 8, 2025 3:03 am

TheGOATRises007 wrote:
AEnigma wrote:Offensive Player of the Year

1. Lebron James
2. Steph Curry
3. Kevin Durant?


What's the argument for Curry over Durant in 2014 on offense?

Ability to run an offence as the team’s primary initiator and playmaker. Which is obviously not unique to Curry, but in addition to being one of the league’s highest volume creators, Curry is also the league’s best shooter and one of its ~five best scorers. And then my criticisms of Curry relative to someone like Paul (whom I disqualified for missing too much time in the regular season and not making up for it in the postseason), which have to do with his lesser passing vision and higher error rate, are even worse for Durant.

I am willing to credit Durant for maintaining his team’s offence without Westbrook, but I do not think he was as important to his team’s offence or as capable of individually driving truly elite offence. He still struggles against physical defence, his handle is nowhere near good enough to actually break down a good defence, and in the postseason, I think Westbrook was at the point (…) where he was a bigger driver of the team’s offensive success… which makes it all the more difficult for me to list Durant any higher than (an injury-boosted) third. This is the last time I have him top three for this award, and in fact the last time I include anyone who is not an elite creator; too many all-time options now to settle for “mere” competence.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#9 » by lessthanjake » Sat Feb 8, 2025 6:10 am

This is one of those rare years where the title-winning team was more of an ensemble cast without a real standout. Which opens up the field more than normal for me.

There was a top player who made the Finals but lost there (LeBron), who obviously has a good case as the top-tier player that actually went the furthest in the playoffs. But losing in the Finals is definitely less compelling a case than winning the title, so it doesn’t create the same kind of presumption in his favor that I apply to top-tier guys who win the title.

So who are the other contending guys who were amongst the league’s best players? I’d say the relevant guys are probably Durant, Chris Paul, and Steph. In addition, someone on the Spurs probably deserves a spot in the top 5 but they’re not contenders for 1st.

Let’s take Chris Paul. I think there’s a good argument he was a better player in the RS than LeBron (though I wouldn’t say it’s clear cut), and he was pretty close in the playoffs, especially with his performance in the second round. But he missed 20 games in the RS, and his team lost in the second round. Granted, his team lost to an opposing team that was easily better than any team LeBron’s team beat. But making the Finals is still an achievement so it’s a notable positive for LeBron here, even if the result there might’ve flipped if their teams swapped conferences. Ultimately, I could see myself putting Chris Paul in 1st place, but him missing 20 regular season games is pretty significant and has to make the difference I think.

As for Durant, again I think there’s a pretty good argument he was a better player in the RS than LeBron. However, I think LeBron was a cut above Durant in the playoffs. And Durant’s team lost in the conference finals. Durant’s team losing earlier is definitely less of a positive for LeBron than it was with Chris Paul, because Durant’s team at least made the conference finals, and they actually beat an opponent that was better than anyone the Heat beat (the Clippers). And Durant was actually very impressive in that series! But making the Finals is significant so it matters. I think someone could probably squint a bit and decide to get Durant ahead by focusing a lot on the RS and the fact that Durant played great in the most impressive series win either the Heat or Thunder had. But I don’t think I can get there. Ultimately, the playoffs are important and LeBron was better and made it further.

That leaves Steph. Steph was probably not as good as Durant and Chris Paul, but I still think there’s a decent argument he was better in the RS than LeBron, though it’s definitely not clear cut. Steph proceeded to be good in the playoffs, but he lost in the first round (albeit to a good team) and didn’t have some historic series. It’s perhaps true that the Heat would’ve lost in the first round if they faced the same team the Warriors did, but ultimately that’s just all conjecture, and losing in the first round is a significant negative for POY purposes compared to making the Finals. To overcome that, Steph would need a clear advantage somewhere else, and he doesn’t actually have it.

So yeah, I think this is close, but it’s LeBron at #1. I think I’d probably put Durant #2 and Chris Paul #3, but I don’t feel strongly about that. Steph probably goes #4, with the #5 spot going to someone on the Spurs (maybe Kawhi?). If Chris Paul had actually played a full RS, I think he might’ve nabbed 1st place, but 20 games is a lot, and it’s not like he’s got some clear cut case without that factor.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#10 » by Narigo » Sat Feb 8, 2025 8:02 am

Tbh I think 2014 is LeBrons peak on offense
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#11 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 8, 2025 8:56 am

Narigo wrote:Tbh I think 2014 is LeBrons peak on offense

I always felt that way until 2018 happened and I still think this version has extremely strong case for the closest to perfect offensive player.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#12 » by Djoker » Sat Feb 8, 2025 5:01 pm

Long post coming here. I know a lot of smirks and raised eyebrows are coming my way from the usual crowd but I don't care.

In the RS, Durant has a very clear edge over Lebron.

RS
Lebron: 27.1/6.9/6.3 on +10.8 rTS with 3.5 topg
Durant: 32.0/7.4/5.5 on +9.4 rTS with 3.5 topg

Heat: 54 wins +4.15 SRS
Thunder: 59 wins +6.66 SRS

Lebron's All-Defensive 2nd Team selection also looks dubious at best given his subpar performance in just about all defensive metrics. For example, DRaptor -0.9, DDarko +1.0, DLebron -0.2. Negative values aren't good here!

After 2018, it was probably the worst defensive season of his prime.

KD and Lebron were probably on a similar level defensively in the RS. KD's metrics are about the same hovering around zero.

In the PS, the Heat faced very weak opposition beating two negative SRS teams in the Bobcats and Nets before facing a +3.63 SRS Pacers team that was playing .500 ball for the second half of the season. Meanwhile OKC beat a really good Clippers team with a league best +7.37 SRS. The gap in competition was huge.

Given that I just don't see much reason to reward Lebron relative to Durant for making the Finals when his team lost to the exact same opponent with a much worse showing. In fact, the Spurs juggernaut talk only started after the fact. Going into the 2014 Finals, the Heat were only very slight underdogs with +135. And after splitting the first two games in San Antonio and going home for three straight, things were looking good for them until... THEY GOT BLOWN OUT IN THREE CONSECUTIVE HOME GAMES. Not saying the Spurs weren't a great team (IMO likely top 15 team ever) but their reputation was largely built on destroying the Heat as evidenced by those odds.

Lebron individually had a pretty subpar Finals too, masked by hyper-efficient scoring. He was horrible defensively with a 67.1 dFG%, particularly so in the final three games where the Heat struggled immensely. Lebron not only had low defensive usage (contesting just 7 FGA/game) but blew coverages and just played lazy defense in general when he was involved in the action. And even in terms of offense, he was not effective as a playmaker only averaging 4 assists a game. Pop and the Spurs in 2013 and 2014 had a scheme to keep Lebron on the perimeter and defend him 1-on-1, often with Diaw. Credit to Lebron that he made a lot of outside shots (52% from 3pt land) but all he got was those jump shots. He didn't pressure the rim much to get the defense to collapse and provide open looks for others. It was an unimpactful performance. According to Thinking Basketball, he averaged 9 potential assists per game which is the lowest of any Finals series in his career demonstrating a lack of playmaking. In the last three games, the Heat had a -0.1 rORtg and an unfathomable +13.8 rDRtg. Ineffective offense and devastatingly bad defense.

Breaking it down game-by-game...

Game 1: 25/6/3 on +12.7 rTS with 4 turnovers. Got leg cramps late in the game and couldn't finish, sitting out much of the 4th quarter as the Heat lost a close and very winnable game. Subpar showing.

Game 2: 35/10/3 on +20.4 rTS with 4 turnovers. Very strong game by Lebron as the Heat won on the road to knot the series 1-1. They were headed home for three straight games. Fantastic game.

Game 3: 22/5/7 on +19.9 rTS with 7 turnovers. Horrible on defense. Scored 18 points and got all 7 assists down double digits. Bad game.

Game 4: 28/8/2 on +19.4 rTS with 3 turnovers. Again horrible on defense. Scored 23 points and got 2 assists down double digits once again. Subpar.

Game 5: 31/10/5 on +10.2 rTS with 1 turnover. Better game than in Game 3 and 4. Still bad defensively but in this one he had more impact on the game and managed to score while the game was still in the balance.

All in all, Lebron had one fantastic game, one solid game and three subpar games in the series.

The Spurs beat the Thunder by a +10.5 MOV but that series went 6 games with Game 6 won in OT. Much more competitive... The Spurs also got taken to 7 games by 8th seed Dallas in the 1st round and only won that series by a +2.0 MOV so they weren't unbeatable.

PS
Lebron: 27.4/7.1/4.8 on +14.5 rTS with 3.1 topg
Durant: 29.6/8.9/3.9 on +4.3 rTS with 3.8 topg

Again, Lebron did put up superior numbers but it's heavily boosted by the first two rounds against minnows. And his statistical averages in the Finals mask a poor series in terms of defense and playmaking. Both had largely ineffective series against the Spurs to be fair with KD also not playmaking well but he wasn't a liability defensively that Lebron was. So Lebron was only a bit better against the Spurs.

In summary, Durant had a much better RS both individually and team-wise. Lebron had a better PS individually (though not by a lot as rTS suggests) and KD had a better PS team-wise.

Thus I will probably have #1 Durant #2 Lebron.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#13 » by EmpireFalls » Sat Feb 8, 2025 5:08 pm

KD vs LeBron who performed best against the Spurs in the PS?
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#14 » by TheGOATRises007 » Sat Feb 8, 2025 6:55 pm

Narigo wrote:Tbh I think 2014 is LeBrons peak on offense


Personally think he was better in 2017 and 2018 on offense rather clearly.

His volume scales up better and there's more assuredness in the later years too.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#15 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun Feb 9, 2025 12:11 am

Narigo wrote:Tbh I think 2014 is LeBrons peak on offense


I think the way he integrated passing in his 2nd Clev stint puts it over 2014.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#16 » by IlikeSHAIguys » Sun Feb 9, 2025 1:11 am

1 - Lebron James
2 - Kevin Durant
3 - Tim Duncan
4 - Chris Paul
5 - Steph Curry

So the main criticism most people have is he got smoked in the finals and like I get it but 28/2/7 on 67% TS is pretty great looking and I feel like if you're going to say his defense sucked or whatever you got to do more than just say that since Lebron is usually a pretty awesome defender lol.

I feel like KD was better in the RS but saying Lebron was 4th? Miami got like 55 wins with Wade and Bosh kind of washed and Lebron was 2nd in MVP voting. Saying he went from being the duh best to 4th in the regular season is a spicy take and I feel like you need to do more than just say his defense was bad lol. It's also really crazy saying that KD who's whole thing is scoring was only a little worse in the PS when his True Shooting is 10 points lower? KD's not a better passer so are we really out here saying KD was making up for shooting 10 points worse defensively? Lebron is the better defender pretty much every year I'm pretty sure. I don't think Lebron was 2014 worse on defense in 2014 honest. I don't know. And just talking about assists at double digits. I mean if you're going to talk about games where his stats were good down double-digits shouldn't you also talk about ways his stats were bad in double digits? Feels like skip bayless lol.

KD kind of choked vs Spurs but he was really good in the regular season and OKC were pretty good in the playoffs. You can say that was Westbrook but I don't think KD went from being the 2nd best guy to not being good.

Duncan has like 2 less assists and 1 less point than parker and 3% worse true shooting while being their best defender and then in the playoffs is 1 less point 3 less assists and 3 points better true-shooting and Spurs defense awesome. Like what I'm saying is I think Duncan was kind of clearly the best guy on easily the best team. He definitely had alot of help though. Kawhi was really good too during the playoffs.

I don't know about better than Lebron but Chris Paul was pretty good all season and played okay vs OKC.

Steph great too. I think it's kind of early to put him over KD though but if someone wants to show his playmaking being a 100 times maybe I could see it. KD showed he could do okay without a playmaker though.

Defensive Player of the Year

1 - Tim Duncan
2 - Serge Ibaka
3 - Marc Gasol

Offensive Player of the Yea

1 - Lebron James
2 - Kevin Durant
3 - Chris Paul
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#17 » by homecourtloss » Sun Feb 9, 2025 1:31 am

1. LeBron. Pretty clear and easy. Kevin Durant had a great season but even his great season wouldn’t be in the top five of LeBron seasons and it wasn’t better than LeBron in 2014. The Miami Heat had some injuries, Dwyane Wade was pretty much washed at this point, Bosh had a pretty good season, Chalmers had a nice season, but that team, while coasting, did what I did because of the player LeBron James is. The offense he created against a -2.9, -7.4, and -4.3 defense and in the regular Susan was down to his singular scoring/playmaking abilities

2. KD. Great season, perhaps a not so great playoffs. He probably became a better defender this year. This could be a number one type season if you didn’t have to go through LeBron, but even then, if you wanna look at the all-in-one metrics, I really wasn’t that stand out of a season.

3. CP3. Monster impact season but missed many games.

4. Duncan. Was still a defensive monster, and in fact was so all the way through 2016 before the playoffs.

5. Curry. You could see the beginnings of what curry was going to do over the next few years.
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lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#18 » by ShaqAttac » Sun Feb 9, 2025 1:21 pm

DUNCAN
Beat Dirk and KD n Westbrook and Bron and Wade and Bosh for the chip. Great D. Good O. Smoked a GOAT in the finals.

BRON
Great O and GOATED scoring but team choked in the finals. Kinda like Jerry West. I know wade and bosh hurt but u can't be #1 getting beat up more than anyone else.

DIRK
took champs to 7. Great O. Can't be talking how spurs played best bball ever and not respect Dirk taking them 7.

KAWHI
Won the chip and finals MVP. Good D and Good o.

KD

Won MVP but choked in the pos. Westbrook prob played better.
Gibson22
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#19 » by Gibson22 » Sun Feb 9, 2025 7:35 pm

ShaqAttac wrote:DUNCAN
Beat Dirk and KD n Westbrook and Bron and Wade and Bosh for the chip. Great D. Good O. Smoked a GOAT in the finals.

BRON
Great O and GOATED scoring but team choked in the finals. Kinda like Jerry West. I know wade and bosh hurt but u can't be #1 getting beat up more than anyone else.

DIRK
took champs to 7. Great O. Can't be talking how spurs played best bball ever and not respect Dirk taking them 7.

KAWHI
Won the chip and finals MVP. Good D and Good o.

KD

Won MVP but choked in the pos. Westbrook prob played better.


dude
f4p
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2013-14 

Post#20 » by f4p » Sun Feb 9, 2025 7:56 pm

IlikeSHAIguys wrote:Duncan has like 2 less assists and 1 less point than parker and 3% worse true shooting while being their best defender and then in the playoffs is 1 less point 3 less assists and 3 points better true-shooting and Spurs defense awesome. Like what I'm saying is I think Duncan was kind of clearly the best guy on easily the best team. He definitely had alot of help though. Kawhi was really good too during the playoffs.


not seeing the numbers show that. that team has about 5 or 6 guys who all trade off leading one stat or the other. just looking at the box score big 3 of PER/WS48/BPM.

duncan was 1st in PER in the regular season and postseason, but was basically last in TS% (among big minute guys) in the regular season and only ahead of parker in the PS. duncan was 4th in WS48 and BPM in the regular season and 2nd and 7th in the PS. ginobili was 2nd/2nd/2nd in the regular season and 2nd/4th/2nd in the PS. kawhi was 3rd/1st/1st in the regular season but dipped a little to 4th/3rd/4th.

even someone like splitter end up 3rd/1st/3rd in the playoffs and danny green was 6th/5th/1st in the playoffs.

that's 4 people leading one of the stats in the regular season or postseason and most of these rankings are all very close as it is.

and then we turn to plus minus. while ginobili was +7.7 in the regular season and +12 in the playoffs, duncan was actually a negative in both the regular season and the postseason. -3.2 in the regular season and -0.8 in the playoffs. so they were literally better with him off the court in both situations. kawhi was +3.8 and +7.7.

this was about as equal a team as we'll probably see for a long while.

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