1992-2017 Best 50 Players - Thoughts on the Ratings?

[durantbird]

Israeli sports journalists Sharon Davidovitch and Elad Zeevi published in 2017 a book named "The Dream Team" (in Hebrew "נבחרת החלומות").

The book is essentially a ranking of the best 50 players between 1992 to 2017, celebrating 25 years to the Dream Team USA national team. Was published on September 2017, so post 2016-17 season.

I attach the ratings below, and I'd be glad to hear your feelings about it. Of course, the book has a large piece on each player explaining why he's ranked there, but for practical reasons, I'll leave that out naturally.

What are your immediate impressions? There are some glaring differences between his rankings for some players, compared to those the forum usually makes, how are you explaining that? Should this reflect the general opinion of journalists?

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Karl Malone
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Steph Curry
10. Charles Barkley
11. David Robinson
12. Kevin Garnett
13. John Stockton
14. Kevin Durant
15. Allen Iverson
16. Dwyane Wade
17. Scottie Pippen
18. Jason Kidd
19. Steve Nash
20. Patrick Ewing
21. Clyde Drexler
22. Gary Payton
23. Ray Allen
24. Paul Pierce
25. Reggie Miller
26. Tony Parker
27. Chris Paul
28. Dennis Rodman
29. Kawhi Leonard
30. Russell Westbrook
31. James Harden
32. Vince Carter
33. Manu Ginobili
34. Pau Gasol
35. Dwight Howard
36. Grant Hill
37. Chris Webber
38. Penny Hardaway
39. Shawn Kemp
40. Carmelo Anthony
41. Tracy McGrady
42. Chauncey Billups
43. Alonzo Mourning
44. Chris Mullin
45. Dikembe Mutombo
46. Chris Bosh
47. Yao Ming
48. Draymond Green
49. Kevin Johnson
50. Robert Horry

Almost in: 51. Ben Wallace; 52. Kyrie Irving; 53. Tim Hardaway; 54. Kevin Love; 55. Derrick Rose

[One_and_Done]

The list is obviously horrible. You can tell right away, because it includes the likes of Horry.

[durantbird]

The list is obviously horrible. You can tell right away, because it includes the likes of Horry.

Yeah there are many anomalies here, but I'd try to dig a bit deeper than merely criticizing the inclusion of Horry which is indeed extremely weird. He's the only role player in here

[lessthanjake]

Seems like a pretty decent list. Of course, it’s not exactly what my list would’ve been. I’d have Shaq over Kobe. I’d probably have Garnett a bit higher. Would have Manu higher. And certain guys here would be higher now, because this list was created in 2017 and there’s guys that achieved a fair bit after that (Steph, Kawhi, Harden, etc.), but I can’t really complain much about how they were ranked in a 2017 list. Horry making the bottom of the list is a bit odd—someone like Ben Wallace should almost certainly above him—but Horry was a significant player with some big moments and I just interpret that as a wacky pick for the final spot.

[falcolombardi]

If this specifically for 1992 onwards there is zero case for jordan 1st or barkley 10

They lose their best prime years in that cutoff

[lessthanjake]

If this specifically for 1992 onwards there is zero case for jordan 1st or barkley 10

They lose their best prime years in that cutoff

That’s a good point. Not sure it’s strictly 1992 onwards, or whether it is more like taking players who were in their prime in 1992 or later and then giving any such players credit for their whole career (at least through 2017, when the list was compiled). Certainly that generation of guys that became stars in the mid-late 1980s (Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, etc.) would suffer a decent bit from a ranking that just doesn’t at all consider anything that happened prior to 1992. For Jordan, that’d miss one of his titles, and several of his peak years, so it’s pretty significant, though obviously what’s left is still extremely good (i.e. 5 titles while being the best or arguably best player in the league). For Barkley, it misses many of his peak years, though obviously he got an MVP award and a Finals appearance after 1992. Hakeem and Malone probably had their best years after this, but a strict 1992 cutoff would still cut away a good bit of their prime. And somewhat similar stories are there for other guys this applies to, like Stockton, KJ, etc.

Of course, on the flip side, the 2017 end date does a similar thing for more recent generations. As I mentioned in an earlier post, guys like Steph, Kawhi, and Harden are on the list but accomplished a lot after 2017. Even someone like LeBron—who has most of his best years within this precise timeframe—is still missing some significant stuff with a 2017 cutoff (most prominently that misses the 2020 title, and it also misses the 2018 Finals run, and some years of longevity). Unlike with the 1992 thing, I interpret this list as *definitely* not giving players credit for things that happened after 2017, for the simple reason that the list was created in 2017. Obviously, the guy who made the list couldn’t have been looking into the future, whereas it is plausible that he was considering what earlier generations did prior to 1992, as long as they were at least players still in their prime by 1992. So, for instance, I don’t have an issue with Steph’s ranking in this, even though I think his ranking should definitely be higher if we did the ranking through 2025.

[Cavsfansince84]

Pretty hard to critique a list like this without knowing exactly what inputs they were using/valuing and also how consistent they were in using them. Since this book came out in 2017 I sort of doubt there was much use of any rapm type stuff and instead its just them putting players wherever they feel like for the most part. Which is how most books are. Tbh, the people on this board do better than 90% of people in the media and journalists when it comes to at least being consistent in grading player careers. So without knowing if they had a true methodology and it seeming like longevity has not much of any meaning to them I'd say its your average book/social media mish mash of big names with others thrown in to try and be different. I give it 3.5/10 in terms of seriousness.

[durantbird]

Looking at how the author defines it, it's actually quite clear that he takes into account pre 1992 accomplishments, for example mentioning 4 All NBA accolades and 10 All Stars under Clyde's name. So it's kinda like 1992 is the cutoff for any player still elite this year, but his whole career is taken into consideration. Not exactly well defined in the book, but seems like being active in 1992 isn't enough, because Isiah Thomas or Larry Bird aren't here for example.