Better prime: Dirk vs Durant vs Kobe

[One_and_Done]

Proves my point even more.

Kobe has a better motor. Better agility. Better strength. Better coordination in the air. Quicker with a better 1st step.

Don't see any argument for KD being superior athletically.

Even were any of this true, it's alot like saying 'Wes Unseld has a better motor, and agility, and mid-air co-ordination than Shaq!' Like, maybe he does. It's irrelevant though, because it's Shaq. You don't get bonus points for being more versatile if the other guys natural athletic gifts cast everything else into irrelevance.

You know who else is more athletic relative to his size than Shaq? And a better dribbler and shooter with a better motor, and better skills all around? Early Boykins. Does it matter? Not at all, because it doesn't matter that Boykins is more 'skilled', or 'has more mid air control'. All that matters who is more impactful. You don't get points for how pretty the basket looks when you make it, all buckets are tye same regardless.

Kobe is your Wes Unseld. Even if he has things he excels at more than KD, and I said if, KDs overwhelming physical advantages blow it all away. That's probably why KD was so much more impactful on a basketball court when it came to making his teams win, and why Kobe was mediocre when not surrounded by a stacked team.

When was Durant on a team that wasn’t stacked?

We’ve had plenty of samples to indicate KD has a lot of lift, even for non-stacked teams.

In 2014 for example, the Thunder were 25-11 in the games Westbrook missed, thanks to KD.

His Brooklyn time is a bit of a mess to assess, because of all the stuff that happened involving availability of guys, but we can see in 21 the team was 23-12 with KD, and only 25-24 without him. Similarly, the Nets in 22 were 36-19 with him, and only 8-19 without him. We also saw KD carry the Nets in the 21 playoffs, almost past the Bucks, with Kyrie and Harden both going down with injuries.

In KD’s Phoenix tenure, despite being past his prime, the win-loss still holds up well for KD. From 23 to 25 the Suns were 85-60 with him, and 15-30 without him. The contrast was stark.

Compare that to say Kobe’s record from 00-07 without Shaq of 135-137, or his mediocre record in 08 if you exclude the games Pau or Bynum played.

Prime KD provides a strong floor raise in the RS, and a even bigger PS playoff lift. Kobe is inferior in both respects.

[NZB2323]

Even were any of this true, it's alot like saying 'Wes Unseld has a better motor, and agility, and mid-air co-ordination than Shaq!' Like, maybe he does. It's irrelevant though, because it's Shaq. You don't get bonus points for being more versatile if the other guys natural athletic gifts cast everything else into irrelevance.

You know who else is more athletic relative to his size than Shaq? And a better dribbler and shooter with a better motor, and better skills all around? Early Boykins. Does it matter? Not at all, because it doesn't matter that Boykins is more 'skilled', or 'has more mid air control'. All that matters who is more impactful. You don't get points for how pretty the basket looks when you make it, all buckets are tye same regardless.

Kobe is your Wes Unseld. Even if he has things he excels at more than KD, and I said if, KDs overwhelming physical advantages blow it all away. That's probably why KD was so much more impactful on a basketball court when it came to making his teams win, and why Kobe was mediocre when not surrounded by a stacked team.

When was Durant on a team that wasn’t stacked?

We’ve had plenty of samples to indicate KD has a lot of lift, even for non-stacked teams.

In 2014 for example, the Thunder were 25-11 in the games Westbrook missed, thanks to KD.

His Brooklyn time is a bit of a mess to assess, because of all the stuff that happened involving availability of guys, but we can see in 21 the team was 23-12 with KD, and only 25-24 without him. Similarly, the Nets in 22 were 36-19 with him, and only 8-19 without him. We also saw KD carry the Nets in the 21 playoffs, almost past the Bucks, with Kyrie and Harden both going down with injuries.

In KD’s Phoenix tenure, despite being past his prime, the win-loss still holds up well for KD. From 23 to 25 the Suns were 85-60 with him, and 15-30 without him. The contrast was stark.

Compare that to say Kobe’s record from 00-07 without Shaq of 135-137, or his mediocre record in 08 if you exclude the games Pau or Bynum played.

Prime KD provides a strong floor raise in the RS, and a even bigger PS playoff lift. Kobe is inferior in both respects.

The 2008 Lakers were 35-20 without Gasol. In 2009-2010 they were 12-6 without Gasol. Andrew Bynum was 20 years old in 2008 and only played in 35 games. He was not substantially better than 2014 Ibaka, who played in 81 games and finished 4th in DPOTY voting.

If Kobe had a player like 2014 Ibaka from 2000-2007 to be the 2nd best player on his team when Shaq didn’t play, he would have a much better record.

In any case, the teammates argument may benefit Dirk the most, considering his teammates when he made the finals in 06, won 67 games in 07, and won the championship in 2011. Of course being backswept in the finals and losing in the first round in 07 doesn’t help his case.

[One_and_Done]

When was Durant on a team that wasn’t stacked?

We’ve had plenty of samples to indicate KD has a lot of lift, even for non-stacked teams.

In 2014 for example, the Thunder were 25-11 in the games Westbrook missed, thanks to KD.

His Brooklyn time is a bit of a mess to assess, because of all the stuff that happened involving availability of guys, but we can see in 21 the team was 23-12 with KD, and only 25-24 without him. Similarly, the Nets in 22 were 36-19 with him, and only 8-19 without him. We also saw KD carry the Nets in the 21 playoffs, almost past the Bucks, with Kyrie and Harden both going down with injuries.

In KD’s Phoenix tenure, despite being past his prime, the win-loss still holds up well for KD. From 23 to 25 the Suns were 85-60 with him, and 15-30 without him. The contrast was stark.

Compare that to say Kobe’s record from 00-07 without Shaq of 135-137, or his mediocre record in 08 if you exclude the games Pau or Bynum played.

Prime KD provides a strong floor raise in the RS, and a even bigger PS playoff lift. Kobe is inferior in both respects.

The 2008 Lakers were 35-20 without Gasol. In 2009-2010 they were 12-6 without Gasol. Andrew Bynum was 20 years old in 2008 and only played in 35 games. He was not substantially better than 2014 Ibaka, who played in 81 games and finished 4th in DPOTY voting.

If Kobe had a player like 2014 Ibaka from 2000-2007 to be the 2nd best player on his team when Shaq didn’t play, he would have a much better record.

In any case, the teammates argument may benefit Dirk the most, considering his teammates when he made the finals in 06, won 67 games in 07, and won the championship in 2011. Of course being backswept in the finals and losing in the first round in 07 doesn’t help his case.

Given the results across the much bigger 00-07 sample, it looks to me like Bynum was pretty important in 08 in games he played. The Lakers also had a tonne of support in 09 & 10 outside of Pau.

I agree though, Dirk should be over Kobe too.