Chet Holgrem vs Isaiah Hartenstein

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think this will be a topic next summer, when the Thunder will need to make decisions as they will become to expensive.
Who is a better player right now, is the question.
But also which one of the two they should keep, as Chet will be significantly more expensive, in the future.

I think they're close, but I actually believe Hart is better right now.
Chet is much better rim protector, but he is weak. He has better handles and shoot, but not enough to be effective from the perimeter.
Hart is elite from the short roll, better passer, good defender himself and great from floater distance.
I think Hartenstein is actually better.

[Doctor MJ]

I think this will be a topic next summer, when the Thunder will need to make decisions as they will become to expensive.
Who is a better player right now, is the question.
But also which one of the two they should keep, as Chet will be significantly more expensive, in the future.

I think they're close, but I actually believe Hart is better right now.
Chet is much better rim protector, but he is weak. He has better handles and shoot, but not enough to be effective from the perimeter.
Hart is elite from the short roll, better passer, good defender himself and great from floater distance.
I think Hartenstein is actually better.

So, I think after the playoffs the Thunder were basically set on Chet > Hart permanently. They played him more in every series and in both Game 7’s, so this wasn’t a situation where Hart was the one they relied upon more when the going gets tough.

Would be interesting to hear thoughts from folks who think the Thunder were wrong in their playoff rotation, but as it was, to me Hart became a guy likely to be traded again because he’s paid like a starter but played like a bench guy when it mattered.

Honestly, I feel for Hart who to me has basically played like a quality starter in the NBA but continues to end up in positions where the franchise paying decided they need to let him go.


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[falcolombardi]

I think this will be a topic next summer, when the Thunder will need to make decisions as they will become to expensive.
Who is a better player right now, is the question.
But also which one of the two they should keep, as Chet will be significantly more expensive, in the future.

I think they're close, but I actually believe Hart is better right now.
Chet is much better rim protector, but he is weak. He has better handles and shoot, but not enough to be effective from the perimeter.
Hart is elite from the short roll, better passer, good defender himself and great from floater distance.
I think Hartenstein is actually better.

Is very clearly chet i get yout points but in actual practice the lineups with chet were much more efective due to his ability to defend in space outside the rin while also being a lenghtier and more dominant rim protector.

The defensive numbers very clearly show this

In the offensive end ihart advantages were neutralized by chet ability to space the floor from 3

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm a huge iHart supporter but this is the first season he was (ever so marginally) a negative on/off. It is uncoincidentally his first season playing with Chet

[JimmyFromNz]

Chet, undoubtedly for me.

For what he gives up in strength he's already a top rim protector in the league and far more versatile when asked to guard high. To the extent the Thunder were comfortable enough having him take isolation plays on Halliburton in the Finals. Both aspects of his game are the most highly valued defensive facets in todays NBA.

Offensively again, a superior stretch player with the ability to put the ball on the floor. Id classify i-harts short roll efficiency as a completely different (lower) calibre/impact offensive skill.

Its true I-Hart fills a specific archetype of big man that is valuable, particularly to balance Chet's weaknesses (rebounding, positioning). But ultimately I don't think hes superior overall on either side of the ball. The passing ability is a nice extra, though if we were putting Chet in similar actions, rather than being spaced we'd see similar results - that just isn't the best maximisation of skillset.

There may be a riot in OKC break up another big 3 for financial reasons, with I-Hart on a similarly large (not max) multi year contract as the consolation.

[falcolombardi]

Chet, undoubtedly for me.

For what he gives up in strength he's already a top rim protector in the league and far more versatile when asked to guard high. To the extent the Thunder were comfortable enough having him take isolation plays on Halliburton in the Finals. Both aspects of his game are the most highly valued defensive facets in todays NBA.

Offensively again, a superior stretch player with the ability to put the ball on the floor. Id classify i-harts short roll efficiency as a completely different (lower) calibre/impact offensive skill.

Its true I-Hart fills a specific archetype of big man that is valuable, particularly to balance Chet's weaknesses (rebounding, positioning). But ultimately I don't think hes superior overall on either side of the ball. The passing ability is a nice extra, though if we were putting Chet in similar actions, rather than being spaced we'd see similar results - that just isn't the best maximisation of skillset.

There may be a riot in OKC break up another big 3 for financial reasons, with I-Hart on a similarly large (not max) multi year contract as the consolation.

I think there is zero chance presti doesnt extend jalen williams too after he did chet

Harstentein is the obvious sacrifice to the 2nd apron in a year or two, probably hoping sorbet fullfils his role by then

Maybe dort too if needed or he decides to go for a bigger contract elsewhere

caruso i assume will be traded for 50 cents on the dollar role player/s as he ages to offload his contract

(you wont get young players from tanking teams for a 33 years old injury prone player, but you also dont want to give caruso to a potential playoffs rival)

[Elpolo_14]

I prefer Chet as a player overall especially on Defense. ( Also impact metric seem to favor Chet too )

[falcolombardi]

I prefer Chet as a player overall especially on Defense. ( Also impact metric seem to favor Chet too )

Also chet is a proven playoffs player at this point

Okc was at its best lineups with him on the floor, his on/off was through the roof and his defense was game changing every time he went there

[Elpolo_14]

I prefer Chet as a player overall especially on Defense. ( Also impact metric seem to favor Chet too )

Also chet is a proven playoffs player at this point

Okc was at its best lineups with him on the floor, his on/off was through the roof and his defense was game changing every time he went there

Chet Defensive Skillsets and impact was insane this year. With the OKC playing the double big line up in many occasions We got to see Chet potential as an elite defender to the max. He still a limited Offensive player like he's actually bad in may instant IMO but in this comparison with I.hart it won't matter that much.

[Exp0sed]

I think this will be a topic next summer, when the Thunder will need to make decisions as they will become to expensive.
Who is a better player right now, is the question.
But also which one of the two they should keep, as Chet will be significantly more expensive, in the future.

I think they're close, but I actually believe Hart is better right now.
Chet is much better rim protector, but he is weak. He has better handles and shoot, but not enough to be effective from the perimeter.
Hart is elite from the short roll, better passer, good defender himself and great from floater distance.
I think Hartenstein is actually better.

Is very clearly chet i get yout points but in actual practice the lineups with chet were much more efective due to his ability to defend in space outside the rin while also being a lenghtier and more dominant rim protector.

The defensive numbers very clearly show this

In the offensive end ihart advantages were neutralized by chet ability to space the floor from 3

It's more about him being a lethal and willing 3 pt. shooter, aka - spacing the floor

Sure, he's a much better defender (his defense is elite, so that's a big gap) and has some other advantages but having a guy his size whose an actual shooter,with consistent form..thats's "unicorn" material and is the primary reason the lineups with Chet were more effective

SGA has improved his 3 pt shot to a respecatble level and all the other starters are very capable shooters

They all read the game well, move the ball fast to the right spot and as SGA got better in reading and reacting and is very efficient with the quick and the right pass to a shooter when doubled or even when shadowed, meaning when a defender off the ball is in the gaps or isn't concentrated - that elite spacing allows SGA (the team's superstar) to operate with impunity

IHart makes up for some of it as SGA can find him at the top of the key when blitsed and good things happen from there but 3 is bigger than 2.

[iggymcfrack]

What are with all these asinine comparisons for Chet and JW to vastly weaker players lately? I don't get it at all.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Definitely Chet come on

[IlikeSHAIguys]

What are with all these asinine comparisons for Chet and JW to vastly weaker players lately? I don't get it at all.

This feels like how everyone was trying to get Boston to break up the JTs to be honest. Except we just freaking won

[Ryoga Hibiki]

What are with all these asinine comparisons for Chet and JW to vastly weaker players lately? I don't get it at all.

I really don't see how iHart is "vastly weaker" than Chet.

[Mavrelous]

I'm a huge iHart supporter but this is the first season he was (ever so marginally) a negative on/off. It is uncoincidentally his first season playing with Chet

He has a 12.6 net rating, all this mean is that lineups w/o him are 13.4 in net rating, on/off is really meaningless in this context.

Chet is the better player, I don't think there is a dilemma except that Chet is fragile prototype health wise, he is the more mobile and versatile on offense, basically the textbook modern center in the NBA, but OKC's downfall last year was the Chet off minutes, and IHart gave them positive net rating in these minutes and allowed him a lesser load.
Strong signs that IHart will be cap casuality and OKC will try to fill with JWill and rookie scale contract guys.

[iggymcfrack]

What are with all these asinine comparisons for Chet and JW to vastly weaker players lately? I don't get it at all.

I really don't see how iHart is "vastly weaker" than Chet.

Chet’s a much more impactful player with his rim protection.

Chet/no iHart lineups were +16.1 in the regular season and +16.2 in the playoffs.

iHart/no Chet lineups were +11.7 in the regular season and +3.9 in the playoffs.

Chet’s 17th in EPM and 18th in xRAPM

Hartenstein’s 40th in EPM and 43rd in xRAPM

[Doctor MJ]

What are with all these asinine comparisons for Chet and JW to vastly weaker players lately? I don't get it at all.

So, while I have to admit to being surprised to see this after the chip, I actually thought about this specific comparison a lot over this season.

Hart has been a guy I’ve watched bounce from team to team thinking “What is wrong with these decision makers?” I think he probably should have been seen as a keeper as a starting center from day one, and had he come out of college basketball rather than Europe, he’d have probably been drafted much higher and the franchise in question would have slotted him in as their future center.

Then in OKC the team looked so good with Hart before Chet came back that I thought it was very much in question whether the 4-years-older Hart was better than young Chet possibly putting the Thunder in a tricky situation where they still liked Chet’s future better than Hart, but for the 2025 playoffs, the Thunder may find Hart the superior piece.

But that didn’t happen. While Chet had some struggles in the playoffs, and while Hart has some advantages as a player, to me Chet pretty clearly emerged as the generally better player already, and of course with much more potential.

All this to say then that while I’m on Team Chet here, I didn’t think the debate this year was crazy at all, and while I expect Hart to be traded before his contract is up, I expect him to start on whatever his next team is.


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[IlikeSHAIguys]

This really still a topic?

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm a huge iHart supporter but this is the first season he was (ever so marginally) a negative on/off. It is uncoincidentally his first season playing with Chet

He has a 12.6 net rating, all this mean is that lineups w/o him are 13.4 in net rating, on/off is really meaningless in this context.

Chet is the better player, I don't think there is a dilemma except that Chet is fragile prototype health wise, he is the more mobile and versatile on offense, basically the textbook modern center in the NBA, but OKC's downfall last year was the Chet off minutes, and IHart gave them positive net rating in these minutes and allowed him a lesser load.
Strong signs that IHart will be cap casuality and OKC will try to fill with JWill and rookie scale contract guys.

Right, that's the point I was trying to make. It was the first year his team's performance didn't drop in his off minutes. Still, having such an impactful backup C is a huge luxury and even more so knowing he and Chet can share the court as needed

It will only be a "problem" when it comes time to pay him again